Nicotine has potential beneficial effects, but it also has paradoxical effects, which may be due to the inverted U-shape of the dose-response curve or pharmacokinetic features. (reviews in the Neurosciences, Volume 28, Issue 7, Pages 767–781, eISSN 2191-0200, ISSN 0334-1763, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1515/revneuro-2017-0008.)
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Nicotine apart from smoking appears to have benefits to the health. "For instance, research has linked chewing nicotine gum with improved short-term memory, and other studies point to nicotine being at play in why smokers are less likely to develop Parkinson's disease. Nicotine also seems to reduce stress and anxiety, and stabilize mood. "In that context, nicotine may be a useful drug for some people and help them function better,"
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/mind/articles/2018-07-12/is-nicotine-really-that-unhealthy
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/mind/articles/2018-07-12/is-nicotine-really-that-unhealthy
You are right when you say the effect of nicotine on the human brain has not been studied well enough, which immediately explains why I said the addictiveness of vaping freebase nicotine has yet to be proven first. Again, do an online search and find one (just one) study that doesn't flagrantly confound nicotine with inhaled tobacco smoke, and that, despite that, supports the claim of "nicotine addiction in humans is NOT a multibillion dollar lie". Again, find that.
"And help them function better". As in, help them to stay alive by FINALLY offering them a way out of smoking combustible tobacco when nothing else works. I.e., if you correctly account for the fact that ex-smokers who have quit before vaping came to existence and who are never-vapers are still also experiencing withdrawal symptoms today, then it doesn't take to be a genius to figure out that the assertion that vaping nicotine is addictive is exactly that: an assertion. Ergo, the burden of proof is not mine.
Addicted to Nicorette
"Some people experience withdrawal symptoms when they toss out their nicotine gum, according to Murray. These withdrawal effects can include headaches, as well as irritability, depression, and difficulty concentrating."
I gave up smoking ten years ago - but I'm still addicted to nicotine | Daily Mail Online
Medicinal nicotine is a very safe drug. Adverse effects vary according to which NRT is used.
'There is no direct evidence that NRT therapy is carcinogenic or influences the risk of any other common smoking-related diseases.'
"Some people experience withdrawal symptoms when they toss out their nicotine gum, according to Murray. These withdrawal effects can include headaches, as well as irritability, depression, and difficulty concentrating."
I gave up smoking ten years ago - but I'm still addicted to nicotine | Daily Mail Online
Medicinal nicotine is a very safe drug. Adverse effects vary according to which NRT is used.
'There is no direct evidence that NRT therapy is carcinogenic or influences the risk of any other common smoking-related diseases.'
I think i get what you mean, i think so. The patches aren't the substance being abused, right ?.
A person who uses nicotine patches uses them because they think it will help them to stop smoking "tobacco". Maybe Tobacco is the substance that was being abused in this case. If the patches fail to prevent the smoking habit then they'll go back to smoking. And we all know smoking has it's longterm downsides. But no one is forcing smokers to smoke tobacco !. If they quit then the results won't be as bad as those which would occur if the smoking habit continued.
I think maybe my thinking on this really is black and white like stols suggested, right or wrong i don't know. So for me, if a substance, such as nicotine/drugs or alcohol, is being used for recreational purposes and the user becomes socially/physically/psychologically dependent on that substance to the point where they feel they "need" it i'm going to stick to my guns here and say that it is not an addiction. Think about it this way. Believe it or not there are people in society who pick up a habit socially, then start to think about the benefits. Long story short they can claim sickness benefits from the state claiming they are addicted, by providing evidence, blood and urine samples etc. As far as i am concerned they just proved they are using and abusing a substance, but that's all !. That evidence shouldn't by any means prove they are addicted, but because of some twisted logic, it does !.
I think evidence that proves addiction for some substances should be medical records that say that the user has made genuine attempts to stop. During those attempts they became ill which would show on their record. So an addiction is a position someone "doesn't" want to be in, in this case.
Whereas some who uses a substance deliberately as a social activity and then later on claims to be an addict, has no medical record that show any attempts to stop, is just playing the system and is in fact a substance abuser, and the party continues.
What makes me laugh most of all is how governments pretty much overlook this quite basic difference and just categorizes everyone as an addict when no "real" proof has been submitted at all.
So i'll repeat in a nut shell "i think a genuine and recognized addiction should include medical records that show a user has made real efforts to quit". And not just samples that show they are using. That's My definition of addiction.
And that's the difference which illustrates the ambiguity.
So again, what would get someone sympathy ?. Would it be convenient for someone to say they are addicted ?. As opposed to saying absolutely "anything/everything" else which wouldn't be anywhere near as credible or fashionable.
But things really aren't that simple are they ?............ apparently !.
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I havnt had a cigarette for 2.5yrs. I have vaped the whole time and at varying nic mg's from 2mg to 24mg.
I still have pangs for a tobacco in the form of a cigarette no matter how dosed up on nicotine I am.
It would be far more convenient for me if I didnt experience pangs for tobacco while using nicotine.
If I didnt still experience pangs for tobacco while vaping nicotine I could be happy in the assumption that nicotine was the driving mechanism for me to continue smoking tobacco.
Having isolated nicotine and taken tobacco out of the equation it seems to me that I wasnt really in it(smoking) for the nicotine and nicotine may have been one of the weakest of drivers in the whole thing. I certainly dont struggle with not vaping for long periods like I did not using tobacco for long periods.
I still have pangs for a tobacco in the form of a cigarette no matter how dosed up on nicotine I am.
It would be far more convenient for me if I didnt experience pangs for tobacco while using nicotine.
If I didnt still experience pangs for tobacco while vaping nicotine I could be happy in the assumption that nicotine was the driving mechanism for me to continue smoking tobacco.
Having isolated nicotine and taken tobacco out of the equation it seems to me that I wasnt really in it(smoking) for the nicotine and nicotine may have been one of the weakest of drivers in the whole thing. I certainly dont struggle with not vaping for long periods like I did not using tobacco for long periods.
Official definition of addiction--Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing disorder characterized by compulsive drug seeking, continued use despite harmful consequences, and long-lasting changes in the brain. It is considered both a complex brain disorder and a mental disorder.
Official definition of substance abuse--Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is use of a drug in amounts or by methods which are harmful to the individual or others. It is a form of substance-related disorder.
That's because patches suck as NRT. Might as well slap a piece of duct tape on your arm, you'd get the same effect. As my previous articles suggest, people do become addicted to nicotine gum and lozenges.
Official definition of substance abuse--Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is use of a drug in amounts or by methods which are harmful to the individual or others. It is a form of substance-related disorder.
That's because patches suck as NRT. Might as well slap a piece of duct tape on your arm, you'd get the same effect. As my previous articles suggest, people do become addicted to nicotine gum and lozenges.
Where did you get the "official" definition from? Just curious.
Again, most people experience withdrawal symptoms when they toss out their combustible tobacco, and this holds true REGARDLESS of whether 1/ they toss out their nicotine gum or 2/ never even use nicotine gum to begin with. Ergo, tossing out their combustible tobacco causes these withdrawal symptoms, but tossing out their nicotine gum does not. Rather, the nicotine gum is what suppresses these withdrawal symptoms. Lest you can one day point me to solid evidence to support the claim that never-smokers who never consumed nicotine before (that is, never consumed it other than just the tiny amounts that can be found in, e.g., tomatos, eggplants, etc.) can become addicted to nicotine gum. Until that day comes, I stand by my conclusion, that I am a vaping superiority. So good luck with finding that evidence. Thanks!
Meanwhile, in the UK...
Nicotine science and policy Q & A « The counterfactual
Nicotine science and policy Q & A « The counterfactual
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAIegQIEBAo&usg=AOvVaw2BPn7nbLzZijD2zBsumttx
Again, most people experience withdrawal symptoms when they toss out their combustible tobacco, and this holds true REGARDLESS of whether 1/ they toss out their nicotine gum or 2/ never even use nicotine gum to begin with. Ergo, tossing out their combustible tobacco causes these withdrawal symptoms, but tossing out their nicotine gum does not. Rather, the nicotine gum is what suppresses these withdrawal symptoms. Lest you can one day point me to solid evidence to support the claim that never-smokers who never consumed nicotine before (that is, never consumed it other than just the tiny amounts that can be found in, e.g., tomatos, eggplants, etc.) can become addicted to nicotine gum. Until that day comes, I stand by my conclusion, that I am a vaping superiority. So good luck with finding that evidence. Thanks!
What about teens becoming addicted to Juul?
The link you posted points to what the government thinks should be the definition of addiction. Like I already tried to explain previously in the thread, biased ideology isn't the same thing as unbiased scientific research... here's another classical example of what this all factually means:
4. Are ENDS addictive?
As for teens becoming addicted to Juul, while I do understand the concern, there exists no reliable evidence to conclude that teens are becoming addicted to it, and, you can disagree with me on this all you want, but... again, the elephant in the room is this: WHERE is the evidence? I want to believe in martians. Where are the martians?
You are questioning the fact that nicotine is addictive, which is a long established scientific fact. I'm sure there is some ancient research somewhere proving it, but it's so old that it's probably not even dated from the last 50 years. It's like penicillin killing streptococcus. Or the wheel is round and will roll down hill. Nicotine is addictive, thus kids that use it for any length of time become addicted. There are no grants given to study that fact. They may study the frequency of kids addicted to nicotine, but won't question whether or not using the Juul made them addicted.
It is in the DSM and the IDC. The definitions are slightly condensed, but 100% correct.
Nicotine addiction is in there, in case you are wondering.
Also, I am not quite sure what "benefits" you think those who are addicted HAVE? Yes, there are free methadone and suboxone programs out there (I did not qualify for state funded insurance so I paid privately for mine, it was pretty expensive) BUT I don't see how methadone or suboxone is "continuing the party." I did not feel remotely high on Suboxone, I felt.... normal and functional. Suboxone has some built in mechanisms to address the ability to get high by using more, it has a terminal dose where all receptors are occupied, and it doesn't matter if you take more.
Methadone... I guess you could claim a certain number of users are briefly "continuing the party" but like, they are overseen pretty rigorously and you don't just get to up your dose all the time, you are stabilized, and hopefully "better" IDK.
It's just not a party though, and frankly those two drugs have more serious side effects than clean versions of the drug involved. I'm not going to go into that but I have been in programs and worked in them and everyone in there is NOT swinging at piñatas, let me put it that way. It is a grim, unfortunate affair indeed.
I attempted (and succeeded in) stopping so I guess I'm safe in your book. IDK if you have seen like, some of those drugs withdrawal in action, but that is also no sweet 16 party, either. Oh addicts go through it, but not USUALLY by choice.
As far as nicotine goes, there are so many opinions involved, I say everyone should decide for themselves.
Recreational use IS the number one way people get addicted as far as I can tell. Maybe doctor prescriptions play a small but crucial role. Recreational use turns into dependence more times than I can tell you. I will say, amusingly, I have never tried a "hard" drug. I kind of thought the MJ commercials were ridiculous but I believed the evidence about some of those other drugs. If you wanted to try them, I would recommend trying them ONCE and once only with the knowledge the high you get will be the best one you will ever have. Everything after that... It's all downhill from there.
But maybe there are many more working people or bored housewives who were placed on the opioid train. IDK .It seemed to be the case when I attended a few groups with my suboxone program but well, mostly, it was recreational use TO dependence.
Whether a person has tried to stop or not (although in my opinion they absolutely SHOULD) well, it makes not difference in the long run-- these programs are public health programs too they do not JUST benefit the addict involved. They reduce crime, stabilize use, and monitor problems. They are far from perfect, bur I don't know how perfect you will get when dealing with addiction. Etc.
Anna
One of the key important factors is that not all addicts necessarily want to quit so they don't try to, or if they do, they possess neither the means nor the knowledge required to try it properly so then, what chance do they have to stay quit, and, if they experience withdrawal symptoms so badly that they don't actually even have to try to quit to experience these horrific symptoms anyway, then seriously what's your point? Do you mean to tell me that the fact they already are well aware that they can't see how to stay quit is not a valid reason for them to not want to try to quit? In the vast majority of cases they just don't see how it would be at all possible for them to quit and stay quit after that, even if they still have at least some hope for a better future buried someplace deep down in the back of their head.
They associate the thought of quitting with feeling so overwhelmingly miserable that not wanting to quit essentially becomes the only effective way for them to not have to deal with that feeling, i.e. to escape from feeling sick and tormented with agony by continuing the old habit of getting their next "fix". The simple fact you don't have any sympathy for that is the core reason why you're obviously not helping them. It's because you fail to see that which is required to help them. In fact locking them up behind closed doors in rehab very often also fails, in part because rehab is where they typically meet other addicts who encourage them to relapse. If there was more sympathy, maybe people like Amy Winehouse would be alive today. R.I.P. Amy
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