FT did this with the squape Reloaded also, removed completely. Now it's Triangle Window atomizer .
Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Clone thread
- Thread starter Croak
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Although my one and only dealing with 3fvape was a positive one.
I feel I must chime in and say don't be naive, by letting them try to make you think that they poor little innocent victim caught in the middle.
When I read the responses that were posted by them I had to laugh, kind of reminded me of the old stories every stripper will tell you that the only reason they are pole dancing is to put themselves threw school. LOL.
Maybe it's the fact that I've become jaded to the ways of the world but I trust no one, especially someone half a world away, that from the start I know has one thing in mind, and that is to hit you hard and fast, make a quick buck and move on, and has never had for one minute your best interest as a customer in mind, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
They have you by the short and curlies and they know it, they have your buck and ain't going to give it back.
So in an attempt to try and maintain some sense of online creditability they concoct this The Little Boy Who Faced The Brutal World story.
Fact is regardless 3fvape sold it and should make it right, but they are not going to do that, because just like the manufacturer they had one goal in mind from the start and that was to make a quick buck and run.
When I decided to purchase one each (Kangxin,Waida) VF clones from China, already had it in my mind that these are cheap knockoffs that most likely may not even work at all.
But in the spirit of tinkering, testing, comparing, just plain curiosity I purchased them knowing I'd be on my own should something go wrong or not work.
This is one of the reasons I insinuated to TheBloke several pages back that if it were me I'd crack it open and attempt repairs myself rather than try and fight a loosing battle half a world away over a $70 clone.
Personally I wish someone just made/sold a 1:1 flask case with chip sled, and without the VF logo for us DIY mod builders.
I fully expect the China chips to crap the bed at any time, although I've been pleasantly surprised by the performance so far of the Kangxin, but when they do I have a couple authentic Evolve boards to retrofit them.
I feel I must chime in and say don't be naive, by letting them try to make you think that they poor little innocent victim caught in the middle.
When I read the responses that were posted by them I had to laugh, kind of reminded me of the old stories every stripper will tell you that the only reason they are pole dancing is to put themselves threw school. LOL.
Maybe it's the fact that I've become jaded to the ways of the world but I trust no one, especially someone half a world away, that from the start I know has one thing in mind, and that is to hit you hard and fast, make a quick buck and move on, and has never had for one minute your best interest as a customer in mind, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
They have you by the short and curlies and they know it, they have your buck and ain't going to give it back.
So in an attempt to try and maintain some sense of online creditability they concoct this The Little Boy Who Faced The Brutal World story.
Fact is regardless 3fvape sold it and should make it right, but they are not going to do that, because just like the manufacturer they had one goal in mind from the start and that was to make a quick buck and run.
When I decided to purchase one each (Kangxin,Waida) VF clones from China, already had it in my mind that these are cheap knockoffs that most likely may not even work at all.
But in the spirit of tinkering, testing, comparing, just plain curiosity I purchased them knowing I'd be on my own should something go wrong or not work.
This is one of the reasons I insinuated to TheBloke several pages back that if it were me I'd crack it open and attempt repairs myself rather than try and fight a loosing battle half a world away over a $70 clone.
Personally I wish someone just made/sold a 1:1 flask case with chip sled, and without the VF logo for us DIY mod builders.
I fully expect the China chips to crap the bed at any time, although I've been pleasantly surprised by the performance so far of the Kangxin, but when they do I have a couple authentic Evolve boards to retrofit them.
I agree with all of that but of course it is undeniable that they have benefited immensely from the word-of-mouth effect on their sales. Ok not all vapers populate these forums but those that do who are interested know someone who knows someone etc etc..If Croak hadn't have started this thread I wopuldnt have bought one, and a bunch of other stuff also. They shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them, !even if it is not the major source of the customer base..
btw my Kngxin is still working great. Even the buttons are still visible above the surface!
I agree with all the posts above.
Croak, what you did was the right thing. Sharing stories about vendors, good and bad, is what we must do. Normally positive stories like those are of great benefit to the vendor. I think it's mostly down to 3FVape themselves that it has not been in this case.
What's made all this worse than it needed to be is that, as Willie says, 3F have ducked all responsibility.
I tried to make it clear to Kate at least twice that the fact that the manufacturer is saying "no" should be irrelevant. It's been made clear in her latest email to me that 3F are not willing to take any responsibility or action themselves. She said she suggested to Monica, the supervisor, that they would send another out after I showed them tracking info (something I had earlier proposed to Kate,) but the manufacturer rejected that too.
But what on earth has that got to do with the manufacturer? I made this quite clear to 3F at the same time as suggesting that idea:
She/they ignored that. They were not willing to do anything out of their own stock, out of their own risk. Instead they took my suggestion to the manufacturer, to ask Waidea to take the risk that I was shipping them my dirty socks or whatever it is that they are worried about. When Waidea refused, they offered nothing.
And it was also made clear from Kate's emails that this $15 shipping fee is also not on 3F - that's the amount Waidea are authorising.
So 3F, who hold the relationship with me, are basically saying that there is no relationship; they have acted - without my knowledge or consent - as a broker between myself and Waidea. They are offering nothing else tangible (perhaps we can credit them for translation services in what turned out to be my communication with the distributor!)
That is not my understanding of the role and responsibility of a vendor, and that is not how any other vendor I have used, or heard of, acts. When I and others have RMA'd goods to our vape vendors, they have accepted them quickly enough that we can be sure they have not opened some long dialogue with their Chinese distributor. They have done what they should do, which is take the item back, send me another out of their own stock, and then plan to get a refund from the distributor at a later date, entirely separate to their dealings with me.
Why 3FVape feel completely unable to even entertain that idea, I have no idea. Maybe business really is done completely differently in China. Frankly I don't fully believe that. I do think that if 3F want to continue to be an overseas vendor of repute, they need to drastically change their idea of what their role is.
Croak, what you did was the right thing. Sharing stories about vendors, good and bad, is what we must do. Normally positive stories like those are of great benefit to the vendor. I think it's mostly down to 3FVape themselves that it has not been in this case.
What's made all this worse than it needed to be is that, as Willie says, 3F have ducked all responsibility.
I tried to make it clear to Kate at least twice that the fact that the manufacturer is saying "no" should be irrelevant. It's been made clear in her latest email to me that 3F are not willing to take any responsibility or action themselves. She said she suggested to Monica, the supervisor, that they would send another out after I showed them tracking info (something I had earlier proposed to Kate,) but the manufacturer rejected that too.
But what on earth has that got to do with the manufacturer? I made this quite clear to 3F at the same time as suggesting that idea:
Me to 3FVape said:
She/they ignored that. They were not willing to do anything out of their own stock, out of their own risk. Instead they took my suggestion to the manufacturer, to ask Waidea to take the risk that I was shipping them my dirty socks or whatever it is that they are worried about. When Waidea refused, they offered nothing.
And it was also made clear from Kate's emails that this $15 shipping fee is also not on 3F - that's the amount Waidea are authorising.
So 3F, who hold the relationship with me, are basically saying that there is no relationship; they have acted - without my knowledge or consent - as a broker between myself and Waidea. They are offering nothing else tangible (perhaps we can credit them for translation services in what turned out to be my communication with the distributor!)
That is not my understanding of the role and responsibility of a vendor, and that is not how any other vendor I have used, or heard of, acts. When I and others have RMA'd goods to our vape vendors, they have accepted them quickly enough that we can be sure they have not opened some long dialogue with their Chinese distributor. They have done what they should do, which is take the item back, send me another out of their own stock, and then plan to get a refund from the distributor at a later date, entirely separate to their dealings with me.
Why 3FVape feel completely unable to even entertain that idea, I have no idea. Maybe business really is done completely differently in China. Frankly I don't fully believe that. I do think that if 3F want to continue to be an overseas vendor of repute, they need to drastically change their idea of what their role is.
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Yes and no.
The situation was diffferent. FT and FC had been disabled to get paypal payments. Stattqualm had trademarks applied for Stattqualm, SQ logo and Squape and told paypal, that paypal is part in infringement of a trademark. At that point Stattqualm had no rights in China. After that FT never wrote Squape or Triangle Window on an invoice for Paypal and later when Sattqualm got their trademarks for China it was impossible to pay Squapes by Paypal.
The Hana style boxes never came back on FT. Hana Modz Trademark was registered 1.27.2015, about 3 weeks before the clones disappeared. I guess FT had to pay or sign and stop selling Hana style boxes. FC had renamed the boxes in 2014 to Hanaa.
Lame way to do business, was looking at 3FVape after reading good things earlier in this thread, but after hearing how they handled your issue I'm inclined to stick with the reputable vendors I've dealt with previously - have nothing but good things to say so far about FT and FC.
-Treeburner
Forget 3F - further Flask feelings and findings!
Temperature Control using Smok Ni200 0.2 coil heads, in Smok GCT tank
Tonight I've used TC for the first time. I still haven't got around to using it in an RDA, which is where I anticipate it will provide most benefit.
But I have drained a full tank of my Smok GCT, using Smok's 0.2 Ni200 coil.
And I like it, even in a tank with a stock coil!
It remains to be seen whether I can use it long term in tanks. I almost exclusively use RTAs these days, not coil heads, so I do have the option of putting my own nickel builds in. I just need to see if I can get the flavour and build quality that I want. I'm hopeful that I can, in which case I could see myself using TC as my standard mode of operation.
I really like that I can just keep vaping as long as I feel the need, and that potentially I don't ever need to worry about changing watt settings between different tanks, assuming I have them all set up with nickel. I just fix it at 40W with a proven fixed temperature setting - I'm guessing 480-500 is pretty much always going to be right for me at nickel's low resistances - and then vape away without thinking about it, regardless of device
That remains to be seen, but so far the signs are positive.
A smattering of minor bugs
Slightly unrelated, I have noticed what I think are a few bugs. Specifically, the device seems to reset itself when it shouldn't. Quite a few times I've seen "DNA 40" re-appear on the screen. This often seems to happen when I change tank. I take tank one off, resistance goes to 0.00; I put tank two on, I press fire, and I sometimes see "DNA 40" again. Pretty sure that shouldn't happen, and it doesn't normally.
The only way this ever causes an 'issue' (if you can call it that), is that it means that sometimes I get asked "New Coil?" again even when putting the same tank back on, because it reset after I put the tank back on.
Another occasion when it definitely shouldn't have happened: I was holding up+down in lock to change the temp, and it reset, showing "DNA 40". I can't remember if I had to re-lock it or not.
These resets have not been a big deal at all, because the reset takes 1-2 seconds max, and no settings are lost. The worst is that I get a spurious "New coil?" question. I mention for completeness and to compare to others.
And a further tiny issue - when I removed the GCT with Ni200 coil and went back to a Kanthal build RTA (and said "New Coil", of course), it vaped as if in TC mode for a second or two - I could see it saying "110F" on the screen, and vaping at about 20W instead of the set 30W, before it realised and the F changed to Volts and I got 30W.
No idea if that's better in the genuine, but it was no big deal at all.
EDIT: Actually, it's not just when swapping from TC coil to non-TC coil. I just took off that same Kanthal tank to add more juice. Put it back on, and it did not ask me "New coil?" But when I vaped, again for ~ 1 second I got a TC-style fire, before it figured it out.
In my case that wasn't really noticeable besides me seeing it on the screen. I suppose it could result in a low initial hit, but I can't see that it could ever result in an over-powerful hit so there's no risk, at worst a minorly affected start of your first vape, if even that.
If you will only rarely use TC, it might make sense to turn TC off when not in use. But it won't bother you much if you don't.
Temperature Control using Smok Ni200 0.2 coil heads, in Smok GCT tank
Tonight I've used TC for the first time. I still haven't got around to using it in an RDA, which is where I anticipate it will provide most benefit.
But I have drained a full tank of my Smok GCT, using Smok's 0.2 Ni200 coil.
And I like it, even in a tank with a stock coil!
- I used 40W throughout.
- I started out at 450F. I found the vape not quite as strong as I'd like, with wattages in the 20s and 30s which into 0.25 ohm is pretty low.
- So I went up to 550F, and finally settled on 480F.
- I really like that I can just vape as long as I want without the thought of a burnt or dry hit.
- The vapour and taste seemed fine - I'm no great judge of taste in vaping because my taste buds suck, but it didn't taste unduly different taking into account it was just a stock coil head, not a high-flavour RTA with twisted wire build that I usually use.
- I drained the tank dry, without ever getting a burnt hit, and I carried on vaping long after there was absolutely no point
- Interestingly I never once got "Temperature Protected" on the screen - it is confirmed that the Waideas will show that, isn't it?
- Instead, by the end, it was hovering around 1-3W the whole time
- It did occur to me that these clones will show Temp Protected a lot less than the genuine, for that reason - they can go right down to 1W, and will do so, where the genuine won't go below 7W. So the "Temp Protected" cut out is going to be needed more rarely.
- A couple of times I just held my finger on fire, without sucking, to see what would happen. It would vape for a long while, always 1-3W, and then suddenly stop: no "Temp Protected", it just stopped firing.
- Seemed very much like an auto cut-off, except I was sure I read somewhere that the DNA 40s don't have that? Or maybe the genuines don't, but the clones do?
It remains to be seen whether I can use it long term in tanks. I almost exclusively use RTAs these days, not coil heads, so I do have the option of putting my own nickel builds in. I just need to see if I can get the flavour and build quality that I want. I'm hopeful that I can, in which case I could see myself using TC as my standard mode of operation.
I really like that I can just keep vaping as long as I feel the need, and that potentially I don't ever need to worry about changing watt settings between different tanks, assuming I have them all set up with nickel. I just fix it at 40W with a proven fixed temperature setting - I'm guessing 480-500 is pretty much always going to be right for me at nickel's low resistances - and then vape away without thinking about it, regardless of device
That remains to be seen, but so far the signs are positive.
A smattering of minor bugs
Slightly unrelated, I have noticed what I think are a few bugs. Specifically, the device seems to reset itself when it shouldn't. Quite a few times I've seen "DNA 40" re-appear on the screen. This often seems to happen when I change tank. I take tank one off, resistance goes to 0.00; I put tank two on, I press fire, and I sometimes see "DNA 40" again. Pretty sure that shouldn't happen, and it doesn't normally.
The only way this ever causes an 'issue' (if you can call it that), is that it means that sometimes I get asked "New Coil?" again even when putting the same tank back on, because it reset after I put the tank back on.
Another occasion when it definitely shouldn't have happened: I was holding up+down in lock to change the temp, and it reset, showing "DNA 40". I can't remember if I had to re-lock it or not.
These resets have not been a big deal at all, because the reset takes 1-2 seconds max, and no settings are lost. The worst is that I get a spurious "New coil?" question. I mention for completeness and to compare to others.
And a further tiny issue - when I removed the GCT with Ni200 coil and went back to a Kanthal build RTA (and said "New Coil", of course), it vaped as if in TC mode for a second or two - I could see it saying "110F" on the screen, and vaping at about 20W instead of the set 30W, before it realised and the F changed to Volts and I got 30W.
No idea if that's better in the genuine, but it was no big deal at all.
EDIT: Actually, it's not just when swapping from TC coil to non-TC coil. I just took off that same Kanthal tank to add more juice. Put it back on, and it did not ask me "New coil?" But when I vaped, again for ~ 1 second I got a TC-style fire, before it figured it out.
In my case that wasn't really noticeable besides me seeing it on the screen. I suppose it could result in a low initial hit, but I can't see that it could ever result in an over-powerful hit so there's no risk, at worst a minorly affected start of your first vape, if even that.
If you will only rarely use TC, it might make sense to turn TC off when not in use. But it won't bother you much if you don't.
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The genuine will go down to 1w just fine. The reason you'll see temp protect flash on the DNA40 and the ChiNA40 is usually just too large a delta between your temp/ power settings and reality, where it reaches or exceeds the temp limit quickly, then needs to back wattage off a lot. If it's gradual (good airflow, good wicking, good draw), you'll see the message less, if at all. Drop the TC down to 250-350f on that Gimlet, see what happens...bet you see that message a lot more often. 
As for a one-size-fits-all temp setting, be prepared to fiddle, always, just due to the variances in coil leg length between your various atomizers. It's particularly an issue with all the pre-built Ni200 heads on the market right now, Gimlet included. You usually need to run them higher temp than you would a shorter-legged rebuildable.
As for a one-size-fits-all temp setting, be prepared to fiddle, always, just due to the variances in coil leg length between your various atomizers. It's particularly an issue with all the pre-built Ni200 heads on the market right now, Gimlet included. You usually need to run them higher temp than you would a shorter-legged rebuildable.
I'm sure a couple of people took advantage but I don't think it was as prevalent as 3FVape seems to be alluding to. I don't think the community had enough incentive or time to abuse it in any appreciable numbers & any uptick in failure rates were more the result of increased manufacturers defects after CNY rather than customer abuse of policy. (Kangxins started dropping like flies when they fell behind and Waideas had many issues on their rollout which were reported. 3F had higher failure rates on Waideas due to the fact that they were the only ones carrying the first production units before the bugs were worked out).
I think it runs deeper than that. 3FVape was the new kid on the block and as people became more aware of their outstanding service, people mentioned to the Big Boys that they would start buying their stuff from 3F in the future when complaining about the Big Boys customer service and the Big Boys on the block started to lose significant business to them.
How better to reign 3FVape in as a competitor than to talk to your manufactures/suppliers that you buy a lot more from than they do & have them remove the financial incentive for 3FVape to continue the outstanding service (and actually impose financial loss if they do) and force them to fall in line lock step with long established Chinese Merchant Service Policies & Procedures. It accomplishes their goal of dealing with a growing threat of serious competition and allows them to continue their business model without significant changes to their service policies.
The timing of the change tells me Waidea did read Nicole's review & the comments therein and used them as the proof of (along with historically higher QC return numbers from 3FVape while ignoring their own first run QC failure rate) to justify the excuse to institute policy changes directed at 3FVape to protect themselves and satisfy the Big Boy Sellers. The end result is everyone happy except 3FVape and its customers.
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LOL! Your posts in the discussion threads under each & every flask product listing were exactly what I was looking to enjoy when I went to Fasttech in the first place and noticed the flasks missing! They were hysterical! You were getting so frustrated at their utter incompetence and apparent outright refusal to properly describe the products they were listing.
I almost always favored buying at Fasttech but they really screwed the pooch with how they handled the temperature controlled mods. They completely missed the boat on the ChiNA40 Devices in every single way imaginable -- So much so, at one point I was convinced they secretly owned and started 3FVape so they could sidestep their own product warranties on these unproven devices and limit their liabilities.
I of course was wrong in that theory, (since someone said they sprang from relatives of people involved at Focal) but I was convinced that was the only explanation as to why Fasttech was 3 months late to the ChiNA40 party and screwed up its implementation so badly in almost every way they possibly could!
When you started going off about if only the had a well used forum of knowledgeable vaping enthusiasts trying to educate them and correct their errors that they could use as a resource to to draw from I was literally ROFL!
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Seems to be when the Chinese New Year hit all things at FT went belly up. (Or the return from)
Haven't ordered from them since just before CNY when I got my Subtanks. Have had a Silverplay in my cart since the day they started carrying them but haven't checked out yet because I've need at least $20 in the cart & not sure what else I want from them. Also ...... about 5 month delay on coil masters.
EDIT: See they have the Lemo 2 now for $32.... decisions......decisions....
It does seem that Fasttech has made a concerted effort to reduce on hand inventory by relying on suppliers to ship ordered items on an as needed basis lately and that is delaying shipments unnecessarily.
EDIT: See they have the Lemo 2 now for $32.... decisions......decisions....
It does seem that Fasttech has made a concerted effort to reduce on hand inventory by relying on suppliers to ship ordered items on an as needed basis lately and that is delaying shipments unnecessarily.
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Hmm so im starting to think something is wrong with my Kangxin flask, been having some inconsistent issues with the same build vary different vapes without changing anything, so i thought i would try my subtank nano with the 1.2ohm OCC head on it. I attach the tank and press the fire button, it shows 1.05ohm, hmmm thats not right these coils have been pretty consistent 1.2 to 1.3ohm, so i start pulsing the fire button while watching the ohm meter, bam its showing a different ohm each time i fire, 1.05, 1.10, 1.23, 1.05, 1.08, 1.25.... oh fuuu. I'm kinda worried now seems like something isn't making a reliable connection, i've check all the connections, coil head, the pin it connects to inside the head, the 510 pin on the bottom of the tank, and the pin on the flask it self. All are clean and it seems to be making a good connection but it should not vary this much right?
I haven't had my Kangxin long enough to probably be much help. 4 or 5 days now. I have only used ni200 coils on it. When I put a tank on it and register a new coil, it stays at the same ohms until I remove the tank for refilling. Been through almost a full tank over the last half hour with a lemo drop, and ohms have stayed constant.
So i just put my ni200 coil in my subtank mini back on and now its not wanting to go into temp mode, its trying to fire the nickel coil in voltage mode even though i have a temp set at 410*. I'm really starting to think somethings wrong.
Edit: unscrewed and rescrewed a few times telling it a new coil each time and now its back in temp mode. Still pretty sure somethings wrong.
Edit 2: Back to volt mode......
Edit 3: unscrewed and rescrewed again and back to temp mode. Man i was so happy with the flask till now......
Edit: unscrewed and rescrewed a few times telling it a new coil each time and now its back in temp mode. Still pretty sure somethings wrong.
Edit 2: Back to volt mode......
Edit 3: unscrewed and rescrewed again and back to temp mode. Man i was so happy with the flask till now......
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I've said it before, I'll say it again, that floating 510 pin in the Subtanks can cause a lot of funky resistance issues. It's not the flask, it's Kanger.
Well at this point all i got is subtanks(nano and mini), they were treating me well till about 15 min ago. It might just be my nano which i can keep using with the kangertech Ipow2 battery as a backup, seems to work well with that.
Edit: Might you suggest a good tank then Croak? My understanding was that the subtanks were considered quite good.
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Croak is right. It is not the flask, it is the Kanger.
I too am using Subtank Mini & Nano on the Kangxin and they can really be fiddly at times especially using occ ni200 coils due to the center pin/insulator assembly on the occ coil not providing a solid electrical connection. The mini w/ the RBA setup installed should provide a much more stable & suitable contact, but of course that won't work w/ the nano.
I find occ ni200 coils are usually stable enough to produce a consistent temperature protected vape if the occ is tightened properly into the base of the tank but they can still jump around a bit occasionally.
Any single (or dual - but with duals you need lighter wire to keep resistance in range) coil rebuildable is good for nickel builds so long as it does not use springs for conducting the power from 510 to the coil & you can make sure your coil isn't loose. KF4 & Lemos can be just as if not more difficult than subtank. I was thinking about ordering Lemo 2 from FT for $32 but any old Kayfun, Taifun, or similar can be used - you just want clean, sold electrical contacts on a tank that pleases you.
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I guess i should be making a clarification here, the OCC head i was running was a kanthol one and ive only been using the RBA deck on the mini for nickel. So you two are saying even the RBA deck isnt good for nickel coils?
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