Variable Voltage and Patent
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It's just plain wrong and borderline idiotic to call any of Notcig's products fail. Notcig's goes above and beyond to make a great product. The Infinity had some problems but none major.
The Buzz is still being used by many and it's a workhorse.
Notcig's did the right thing. Someone was bound to do it. If not him it would've been company xyz. No need to bash him IMO.
The Buzz is still being used by many and it's a workhorse.
Notcig's did the right thing. Someone was bound to do it. If not him it would've been company xyz. No need to bash him IMO.
Patents can be used to protect the whole, such as many businesses that help and use Linux hold many patents on technologies used in Linux. They use their patents to keep the likes of MS from trying to go after the little guys that couldn't afford the fight.
My question is, how is VV not considered a derivative on the already existing patent held by Ruyan? While I understand it is much more complicated, but in simple terms isn't VV just a PV with a voltage regulator strapped on?
My question is, how is VV not considered a derivative on the already existing patent held by Ruyan? While I understand it is much more complicated, but in simple terms isn't VV just a PV with a voltage regulator strapped on?
Ruyan?....... Sorry I remembered who Ruyan was after I posted.
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I'd like to hear some constructive feedback. How would most of you like to see our vendors protect their investments in their designs and products? Is it not better to protect our own, than having big corps. swoop in and take everything?
Patents are a good thing when there is an original idea involved. I have built variable voltage drives for ceramic and mica resistive heaters on extruders. A dc motor drive is also the same concept
(most of the time AC-dc but still)
To me VV was quite obvious and a natural progression.
In the end a court case will surely end the debate. In the mean time buzz is a member of the community and I wish him the best. He is doing what he feels is right.
As far as big corps, they have lots of money and lots of lawyers. They may even give him an offer he can't refuse for the patent
I think that's the problem itself. There is no way to protect it. Notcigs is merely the first of many who are going to patent anything & everything. Once they have their patent, they can sell out to the highest bidder & retire in the Bahamas. Sooner or later Big tobacco will own it all. The deepest pockets always wins. Mark Cuban patented Internet radio & made his money selling out. My guess is that Mike, & others like him, will do the same. They can call us stupid, or say we don't understand the patent laws as well as them, but it is a smoke & mirror job. They figure someone's going to get rich & it might as well be them. That is Capitalism. That is America. That is the truth.
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There are those that will never think this is the right thing to do BUT just look around you please !!
YOUR
Cell Phone
This Forum
Tv
Car
Microwave
Hot tub
Drill
Ipod
Smart phone
Laptop
Desk top
Toaster for that matter
Stove
Refrigerator
etc. etc. etc.
ALL HAVE PATENTS applied to them just look at the back label
I am making a business decision here , I made it public so people and MFG know what is happening , I did not have to , was that a bad choice ??? time will tell .
I am protecting
1. My Employees
2. My company
3. My work and design
DId we bring out the first VV device YES ! do we have a right to protect it from the 10+ other companies making them YES
Do you have to agree NO
Is there TOO much copying and outright stealing of designs around here
YES
In any other field of design and technology development we would be laughed out of the building . Sorry but thats the way it is , this is the WILD WILD WEST and I am staking a claim .
YOUR
Cell Phone
This Forum
Tv
Car
Microwave
Hot tub
Drill
Ipod
Smart phone
Laptop
Desk top
Toaster for that matter
Stove
Refrigerator
etc. etc. etc.
ALL HAVE PATENTS applied to them just look at the back label
I am making a business decision here , I made it public so people and MFG know what is happening , I did not have to , was that a bad choice ??? time will tell .
I am protecting
1. My Employees
2. My company
3. My work and design
DId we bring out the first VV device YES ! do we have a right to protect it from the 10+ other companies making them YES
Do you have to agree NO
Is there TOO much copying and outright stealing of designs around here
YES
In any other field of design and technology development we would be laughed out of the building . Sorry but thats the way it is , this is the WILD WILD WEST and I am staking a claim .
That's exactly what I posted above you. Thank you for finally cutting through the bull & telling it like it is.
I did not intend to sound like I was talking BS , sorry if it came off like that
I hope if Mike is successful in obtaining this patent is that he works out reasonable deals with the people who are currently making VV PVs. There are a lot of great people associated with the PV industry & ECF. These guys deserve a fair deal that will still allow them to produce their PVs without forcing them out of business. I think that is what we are all really worried about. Texas Instruments is making money from all the VV circuits. If the Patent office & the courts rule that Mike has a claim, then he should make something too. It's when greed takes over...that's my biggest concern. I hope that doesn't happen.
Buzzkill, since you have now participated in this discussion on the general forum, I'd like to express my opinion. Are you currently paying a patent fee yourself for using the e-cig concept? I understand what you are saying, but i have a few concerns about how this has been presented to us. First, I don't think it was fair to ask ecf members to tell you who is making vv pv's. Second, I can understand larger companies paying for usage rights, but smaller companies(particularly the wood pv makers), already using the technology are not making large sums of dough. So basically, we ecf members will not only be paying taxes on ecigs, but higher prices for atomizer, ecig, and now vv patents. Had you filed the patent when you originally made your product, this would all be a moot point. To do so now...well? I would have also thought it would be more reasonable to make a patent on a certain type of vv device. I'm also wondering how you go about proving that you made the very first vv mod? I would think some hobbyist had the idea before, but i'm just now gonna have to take your word for it... I'm not trying to say, no patents ever,but I do hope you will hear folks points and consider them for a compromise. Thanks for listening
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I personally have no problem with anyone applying for a patent related to vaping or anything else. In this particular instance, I doubt one will be issued. If one *is* issued, it will be unenforceable. There is prior art. That prior art exists in hundreds of thousands of electronic devices and goes all the way back to (and probably before) the RCA Gold TV tuner. Every 12 year old kid who has used a Heathkit to begin his electronics education has probably experienced that prior art first hand.
It's murky water when you use someone else's invention to improve an existing product and then try to patent the idea. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes anyone holding rights to the prior art ends up owning your house. It's even harder to make an intellectual property claim (even while holding a patent) when you've released a product before applying for a patent. Once the idea leaves your possession, it isn't yours any more. Anyone who purchased a buzz before the patent application can argue they bought the idea along with the product. If buzzkill ever published a schematic or photo or explanation of his idea (and yes, these days web sites and forums like ECF are considered publishing as far as the US courts care) before he applied for his patent, then he gave his idea away for free to anyone who wanted to read or view. So, even if a patent is issued, it won't be enforceable. -- The list of vendors offering VV that buzzkill is compiling will only end up serving him as a list of people he can't enforce an IP claim against. They all had possession of the idea that he freely gave away before the patent application.
I have no intention of forcing anybody out of business , `Licences only make sense if they work for both parties involved .
No I am not paying a fee to Ruyuan they to date have not contacted me or any other Mod maker that I know of , If they do then I have to work out a deal with them , that is the process.
I only asked about VV maker s on MY FORUM that I pay for .
I am not responsible for Atomizers or the Ecig itself ( Ruyuan has licence deals with some Chinese MFG from what I understand ) Only VV
I am open to ideas but this is how business works in the world just ask MS or Apple or any number of businesses that have patents like Black & Decker or Skill Saw they all have to deal with cross licences and patents , Skill may licence a patent from B&D and vise versa .
BTW the initial provisional patent application was quite some time ago ! this has been going on for about a year .
Six no disrespect but you do not understand patents that well , it is the device it is used in that is under application not ALL variable devices .
BYW in the USA there is a 1 year time from public viewing of the device / idea to the patent application time , this is only in the USA in other countries it is not that way .
Wow, how did I miss this thread all day. I am a bit surprised that a VV general patent has taken this long to arisem most products are pending patent before they even make it to market. And as far as the law goes it is better we know the person who holds the patent than it be some corporation getting it and dictating exactly how any VV can be made. All of the technology already existed so there is no creation that is patented making it mostly a patent on the configuration of the existing parts, that makes things nearly impossible to hold a monopoly over unless the patent holder is as fore mentioned a corporation able to produce millions of units. This patent will protect all of us from the bean counters. A license can be negotiated particularly with a "friend" to produce a product that will have little to no effect in the price of the licensed unit, whereas shold an "enemy" acquire a patent on something, such as big anything, they can take their ball and go home at any time.
The price of many products is controlled by someone who can afford to control production of the product, a widget maker with a patent can make just enough widgets to keep everyone content and keep the price high so they have to do little work to maintain the market instead of flooding the market with widgets and allowing the price to go down then forcing more cost and work to go into producing more widgets for the same amount of profit. For example look at any elite automobile. Maybach, Rolls Royce or Lamborghini, they could make a lot more cars than they do.
The price of many products is controlled by someone who can afford to control production of the product, a widget maker with a patent can make just enough widgets to keep everyone content and keep the price high so they have to do little work to maintain the market instead of flooding the market with widgets and allowing the price to go down then forcing more cost and work to go into producing more widgets for the same amount of profit. For example look at any elite automobile. Maybach, Rolls Royce or Lamborghini, they could make a lot more cars than they do.
7 years in patent law. These days, I use my electro-mechanical skills to put food on the table, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten. If you're going to ask licensing fees to use someone elses art even in a device they never could have imagined it being used, it doesn't make their art yours. Best case scenario, you're splitting license fees with whomever holds rights to trim pots and voltage regulators (RCA and GM, probably). Worst case, RCA figures out you used their art for profit in a manufacturing process without paying them licensing fees... An idea on paper is very different than an idea that actually made it to manufacturing.
Again, more power to you. I hope you are successful. I don't know your time line (you said your app went in a year ago, but I have no idea when you began selling your devices nor when or if you discussed your idea in public), but you'll want to cover your ... as much as possible if you gave away your idea by sales or public discussion before the app went in. More so if anyone on any public forum helped you or made suggestions you tried out or that actually made it in to any production design.
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