Variable Voltage and Patent

[Wharf Rat]

MC not to belabor the point and this thread is running together on who said what, but it looks like to me that you and your partner took wifi or such and made it better? And were awarded for doing that?

Isn't that what this is all about with Buzz's app, or is it really that Buzz did it instead of..............(fill in your favorite VV)?

Why did you patent your device?



Just read your last post

 

[firhill]

5card, you may be right, however if you read the first claim it reads "voltage adjustment means for variably adjusting an output voltage" it says nothing about what voltages, or how.
.

I have no clue how patents work but would it not be possible for every/anyone else to market their device as a variable wattage/power device as it seems that this patent is all about variable voltage?

Or is that just semantics?

 

[MasterofChaos]

GMoney,

You are absolutely right, of course, and that's where the real game is. You have to make the claims as broad as possible, but not so broad that they won't be approved.

That's the tough part, and usually requires a fair bit of research on the part of the patent writer. If he doesn't know what he's doing, he will spend years re-writing his claims (or give up), or end up with a patent that is so specific, its very easy to work around.

In this case, unless Buzzkill gets lucky and has an incompitant or overworked examiner, or has not disclosed all the required information (see my earlier post about the Fistpack), I don't think this thing has a chance of going through as-is.

 

[5cardstud]

Nuck decided to go that route becos of the chances of the pot failing. its still a VV with fixed sets. and here I post again.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/20672-3-7v-vs-5v.html#post332679

I realize that and it was a great device and a great idea but it was selectable not variable. There is no variation in the settings. The same voltage comes up with the same setting every time you put it there.

I have no clue how patents work but would it not be possible for every/anyone else to market their device as a variable wattage/power device as it seems that this patent is all about variable voltage?

Or is that just semantics?

I think you make a good point firhill and he should be looking into a patent to protect himself too.

 

[MasterofChaos]

Warf,

Actually, the story behind that patent is interesting and highly relevant to this conversation. You see, I wrote a paper outlining the radio in the patent and had it published. It turns out (purely by coincidence) there was a group of researchers in Austria working on EXACTLY THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME as us. We didn't know about each other, it was just one of those freaky things. I published my paper 2 weeks before they published theirs (which means we probably submitted our papers about the same time, given the varying delays in things going to print), and as such I was able to go for the patent, and they weren't. I beat them by 2 weeks. It was really just freaky luck.

That's why I'm saying there's no way this patent will be awarded, if anything was in the public domain about any kind of variable voltage device (doesn't matter if it has switches or a pot or you had to solder different resistors on there or whatever) as long as it was disclosed before the Buzz was released. The patent was not filed until January of this year, and by all accounts the Buzz VV was announced around May (?) or so of last year. So that's the time frame for the public disclosure.

From what I've heard here, that seems like a 100% certainty. Doesn't matter if it was marketed or not. If someone on the ECF posted a note about a VV technique or device, that counts as public disclosure.

 

[Zen~]

I have no clue how patents work but would it not be possible for every/anyone else to market their device as a variable wattage/power device as it seems that this patent is all about variable voltage?

Or is that just semantics?

Good question...

Wattage is a factored number... Volts x amps = watts

Variable wattage is simply another way of stating variable voltage, with one caveat... On a Darwin, where you tell it how many watts you prefer, it decides the voltage for you and sets it. It's still variable voltage, it's still covered in the patent.

 

[Bovinia]

MoC, maybe you are confusing the US patent laws with the laws of other countries.

 

[misterD]

know what? even though people are saying that the fistpack were not a VV if Nuck was still making it he would be getting a letter from Notcigs. dont you think?

 

[MasterofChaos]

No, you could probably patent the idea of a constant wattage device, just as you could a variable voltage device, provided you can prove that you thought of it first.

That`s the objection I have to Buzzkill`s patent.

 

[5cardstud]

Warf,

Actually, the story behind that patent is interesting and highly relevant to this conversation. You see, I wrote a paper outlining the radio in the patent and had it published. It turns out (purely by coincidence) there was a group of researchers in Austria working on EXACTLY THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME as us. We didn't know about each other, it was just one of those freaky things. I published my paper 2 weeks before they published theirs (which means we probably submitted our papers about the same time, given the varying delays in things going to print), and as such I was able to go for the patent, and they weren't. I beat them by 2 weeks. It was really just freaky luck.

That's why I'm saying there's no way this patent will be awarded, if anything was in the public domain about any kind of variable voltage device (doesn't matter if it has switches or a pot or you had to solder different resistors on there or whatever) as long as it was disclosed before the Buzz was released. The patent was not filed until January of this year, and by all accounts the Buzz VV was announced around May (?) or so of last year. So that's the time frame for the public disclosure.

From what I've heard here, that seems like a 100% certainty. Doesn't matter if it was marketed or not. If someone on the ECF posted a note about a VV technique or device, that counts as public disclosure.

If this patent wasn't going to be awarded they wouldn't have filed. The first thing that is done by a patent attorney is they research the patents to see if there are any that are pending or existing. If someone has already filed they will tell you it's a waste of time and money. I too hold a patent. Well did.

 

[Zen~]

know what? even though people are saying that the fistpack were not a VV if Nuck was still making it he would be getting a letter from Notcigs. dont you think?

I doubt he would, because the fist pack isn't continuously variable voltage... It's selectable voltage. No pot... No variable regulator... It selects between fixed regulators.

 

[MasterofChaos]

Nope, I am only familiar with US patent laws. Canada is the same.

You have a year after public disclosure to patent an idea, provided you prove that you disclosed it first.

I am actually in the process of applying for a patent, for an E-cig device, which has not been released yet. That`s why we haven`t released it, since we want to get the patent stuff squared away BEFORE the device is publicly disclosed. That`s how you properly protect your intellectual property.

This whole trying to patent stuff after the fact is total crap, in my opinion.

 

[5cardstud]

know what? even though people are saying that the fistpack were not a VV if Nuck was still making it he would be getting a letter from Notcigs. dont you think?

No I don't. There are other ones like that and they don't contain the potentiometer so they wouldn't fall into this category.

 

[MasterofChaos]

5Card,

Yes, the lawyers will research a patent before its filed, however that is FAR from a guarantee that it will be awarded. Its not even close. To get a patent awarded it has to go through a long, drawn out process and stand the test of time.

Many of them don`t make the cut, or are watered down so much they are irrelevant.

 

[GMoney]

GMoney,

You are absolutely right, of course, and that's where the real game is. You have to make the claims as broad as possible, but not so broad that they won't be approved.

That's the tough part, and usually requires a fair bit of research on the part of the patent writer. If he doesn't know what he's doing, he will spend years re-writing his claims (or give up), or end up with a patent that is so specific, its very easy to work around.

In this case, unless Buzzkill gets lucky and has an incompitant or overworked examiner, or has not disclosed all the required information (see my earlier post about the Fistpack), I don't think this thing has a chance of going through as-is.

We agree, claims construction is an art.

I have not seen all the prior art, so I won't give an opinion as to patentability or it's ability to be upheld under reexamination. I do believe from what I have seen posted that the patent could still be granted even in light of "Fistpack" (improvements can be merely incremental and still be patentable) - whether there is other prior art or other issues that could be problematic - I just don't know. But, as you said, and as I have posted earlier today, the application will go through the process and it will take quite some time. It is a fairly simplistic application so I am sure it will be scrutinized quite closely especially for being overbroad or overreaching.

 

[Zen~]

No, you could probably patent the idea of a constant wattage device, just as you could a variable voltage device, provided you can prove that you thought of it first.

That`s the objection I have to Buzzkill`s patent.

No sir, I respectfully disagree... If the VV patent is approved, and since it is not possible to create a constant wattage device without varying the voltage... Variable wattage will require licensing under mikes patent.

EDIT: fixed wattage as well

 

[MasterofChaos]

5Card,

If you read his first claim, there is nothing in there about a pot.

And Zen is totally right, if he were awarded this patent he could turn around and sue Nuck. That`s why its ridiculous.

 

[Bovinia]

Nope, I am only familiar with US patent laws. Canada is the same.

You have a year after public disclosure to patent an idea, provided you prove that you disclosed it first.

I am actually in the process of applying for a patent, for an E-cig device, which has not been released yet. That`s why we haven`t released it, since we want to get the patent stuff squared away BEFORE the device is publicly disclosed. That`s how you properly protect your intellectual property.

This whole trying to patent stuff after the fact is total crap, in my opinion.

I wasn't sure if Canada law was the same, thank you for clearing that up. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to understand.

I wish you the best on your device and patent, same as I wish the best for Mike and his

 

[MasterofChaos]

Zen,

I see your point, however he talks about varying the voltage directly. I think you could get around it in a wattage patent by saying the voltage is varied indirectly.

But perhaps your right, that`s just my opinion. It is a tough call, to be sure!

 

[Wharf Rat]

MC I've read here that you have one year to apply. If so Nuck would have no claim, would that preclude Buzzkill to file?