Vegetable Gylcerin vs Generic Glycerin

[VirtualWaver]

Hi all!

I wonder if you could tell me the difference between generic glycerin and vegetable glycerin. I bought glycerin today from drugstore (it is our local production glycerin, not imported from somewhere). The instruction said that it can be used both internally and externally. But it is just glycerin not vegetable glycerin. And I asked in many drugstores and no one heard about vegetable glycerin. What is the difference?? Are they the same? And, what is the most important, can I use the glycerin I bought for smoking?
I did not find any relevant information on the web as well.
Thank you in advance.

 

[rannox]

Does is say USP on the bottle?

 

[SLDS181]

Regardless of source, to be USP (to have it on the label), it must be USP Glycerin - not USP Vegetable Glycerin, or any varieties.

It may be sourced 100% from plant products, or not. Depends on the manufacturer.

Either way, if its USP, you are using the right stuff - everything else is philosophical.

 

[NightShadow]

For more details see this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...table-glycerin-vs-humco-glycerin-warning.html

Something marked glycerin (instead of vegetable glycerin) MAY be made from animal products and not vegetable products. Does this make a difference, yes. Some people get headaches etc fron non vegetable glycerin. Might either work fine for you, yes. Might you prefer one over the other, yes. Would vegetable glycerin be the safer bet, yes

 

[VirtualWaver]

Does is say USP on the bottle?

Thanks for you fast answers guys. No, the bottle hasn't USP on it, because it is our local production (I live in Armenia) and not US production, so our standarts are quite different. We don't have USP or something like that, that is why I can't find out whatever I can use this glycerin or not.

Regardless of source, to be USP (to have it on the label), it must be USP Glycerin - not USP Vegetable Glycerin, or any varieties.

It may be sourced 100% from plant products, or not. Depends on the manufacturer.

Either way, if its USP, you are using the right stuff - everything else is philosophical.

Something marked glycerin (instead of vegetable glycerin) MAY be made from animal products and not vegetable products. Does this make a difference, yes. Some people get headaches etc fron non vegetable glycerin. Might either work fine for you, yes. Might you prefer one over the other, yes. Would vegetable glycerin be the safer bet, yes

Hey, guys, as far as I understand, the vegetable glycerin is made of vegetable products, when generic glycerin is made of animal products, right?

Also, is there another type of glycerin, for example animal and plant mixed product, or something else? Or there is either animal or vegetable?

And finally, I would like to know your opinion: should I try to smoke my glycerin or it will be risky? If it is not-vegetable, is there any risk to smoke it?

For more details see this thread:

Thanks a lot! I will read it now! )))

15 minutes later: Hey guys... I tried to smoke it - well it is my nature to try everything... After a few draws I feel like I smoke marijuana... I tremble now... it is so strange... the feeling like I am losing my mind.. my head and everything inside of my trembles... And lunges... strange feeling when breathing... I can't breath clearly... Something is wrong... really wrong... I can't explain, but I hope it will end soon.... What should I do? And what this can be? - and why? Had anyone such experience ever (I hope no)?

 

[VirtualWaver]

It is more than an hour since I smoked that poison. Now I am feeling better. But I did not figure out why it happened. Maybe, because of my organism (allergic to glycerin)? Or maybe because of bad (not-vegetable or synthetic etc) glycerin? And, maybe, because I put only glycerin without water in the cartridge? Or maybe too much glycerin? I don't know...

I only know one thing: DO NOT SMOKE YOUR OWN e-liquid UNTIL YOU ARE 100% SURE THAT IT IS SAFE!! AND DO NOT SMOKE ANY GLYCERIN!!
Believe me, it was horrible. I feel like I am gonna to die, really - it is impossible to explain that feelings.
But the vapor was AWESOME! I never saw such vapor!!! It was really great!
I hope I will be better tomorrow morning.

 

[SLDS181]

Hey, guys, as far as I understand, the vegetable glycerin is made of vegetable products, when generic glycerin is made of animal products, right?

Nope, VG is veggie glycerin. But if the VG manufacturer is going for that USP label, it will only say, ever "USP Glycerin". No matter what the source materials, USP glycerin is safe to use. The difference is philisophical.

The rest is in your head, seriously.

 

[NightShadow]

I am strongly suspecting that the glycerin you have is NOT Vegetable Glycerin, but the animal based glycerine. It sounds like you are experiencing similar but even worse side affects as in the link I originally posted. I would throw that stuff out, and try some actual USP VEGETABLE GLYCERIN instead. The bottle I have is from a company called "NOW" and is clearly marked 100% pure vegetable glycerin. It comes in a blue bottle.

And no I have not ever heard of any animal and vegetable glycerin mixture sold pre packaged.

It is also possible for you to have a similar reaction to real VG, but the odds are lower. If you do try actual VG and have a simlar reaction then you will know to only use PG.

It is possible the product you are using has an aditive that is giving you the bad reaction, it is also possible hat you are one of the relatively few people who simply have a bad reaction to glycerin. I have read some people can use the animal based fine but not vegetable, and others cane use the vegetable based fine but not animal. There are probaly some that cannot use either one. Good luck finding out which type you are, and be carefull trying.

Really the only two reasons to use VG are if you cant tollerate PG, or desire more vapor in your mixes than PG provides.

 

[SLDS181]

I am strongly suspecting that the glycerin you have is NOT Vegetable Glycerin, but the animal based glycerine. It sounds like you are experiencing similar but even worse side affects as in the link I originally posted. I would throw that stuff out, and try some actual USP VEGETABLE GLYCERIN instead. The bottle I have is from a company called "NOW" and is clearly marked 100% pure vegetable glycerin. It comes in a blue bottle.

Does not exist. There is no such animal as "USP VEGETABLE GLYERIN". It may say "Pure Vegetable Source", but they cannot, under any circumstances, say "USP VEGETABLE GLYCERIN". Only "USP GLYCERIN".

Also, I'd like to follow that with "bull****". Regardless of source, it is chemically the same.

Possibilities:

1) VirtualWaver's choice of product was not US Pharma grade. Outside the US, it often happens that counterfeit products are sold. It may have contained DEG.

2) VirtualWaver puffed away like made, constantly sucking it in. Lets be clear on this. It is not air. You are not breathing air when you are inhaling vapor (well, some, but the vapor itself is not).

We can only cover this so many times before frustration sets in.

 

[Luv2CUSmile]

Synthetic glycerin is more widely used outside of the US along w/ tallow based- It is not the only available but it is more used- In the US we do have different requirements but all are deemed safe- just different reasons for use...

3 types of glycerin... (I posted this in another post as well)
Synthetic- once was only produced by DOW chemicals until they closed the plant in Texas- they still have a plant in Germany but other companies started w/ synthetic as well-
Tallow glycerin- animal based fats and oils
Vegetable glycerin- vegetable based fats and oils

You want Vegetable glycerin- If it is not listed as food grade vegetable glycerin it could quite possibly be tallow (animal based- which is considered a lower grade due to impurities) or synthetic- (if it is made locally there I would ask the pharmacy- they would have to know if it is animal based, vegetable based or petroleum based)... synthetic is petroleum based

 

[NightShadow]

Does not exist. There is no such animal as "USP VEGETABLE GLYERIN". It may say "Pure Vegetable Source", but they cannot, under any circumstances, say "USP VEGETABLE GLYCERIN". Only "USP GLYCERIN".

Also, I'd like to follow that with "bull****". Regardless of source, it is chemically the same.

Possibilities:

1) VirtualWaver's choice of product was not US Pharma grade. Outside the US, it often happens that counterfeit products are sold. It may have contained DEG.

2) VirtualWaver puffed away like made, constantly sucking it in. Lets be clear on this. It is not air. You are not breathing air when you are inhaling vapor (well, some, but the vapor itself is not).

We can only cover this so many times before frustration sets in.

I obtained the USP statement from manf. website, if you dont agree thats fine.
Here is an example of clealry marketed USP VG: http://www.kicchemicals.com/glycerin.htm


One question however, can something derived from 3 different sources, animal vegetable and chemical while being "CHEMICALLY THE SAME" still affect people who may be allergic to ONE of the base products differently?

And yes since it is from outside it may contain other impurities like the deg or OTHER things.

My point was to suggest trying a more well known / hopefully safer product, and point out the reasons for using this at all. And not get into a debate about how a manufacturer markets or labels a product.

 

[Scottes]

Regardless of source, it is chemically the same.

I think that you can be assured that it is 99.5% chemically the same as any other USP certified glycerin.

The other half percent can be a number of different things. Actually I think it can be any except a limited number of things known to be dangerous and/or undesirable by the USP. And USP allows it to contain up to 0.1% DEG.

And that half-percent can make a difference and/or have a very noticeable effect.

 

[NightShadow]

I think that you can be assured that it is 99.5% chemically the same as any other USP certified glycerin.

The other half percent can be a number of different things. Actually I think it can be any except a limited number of things known to be dangerous and/or undesirable by the USP. And USP allows it to contain up to 0.1% DEG.

And that half-percent can make a difference and/or have a very noticeable effect.

If you are buying USP, then yes I agree.

The product originally in question was obtained in Armenia, I am not sure it was USP even though it was bought in a local pharmacy there as I did not note where the OP ever mentioned it was marked as USP.

Regardless of the 3 sources for glycerin (animal vegatable or synthetic)
there IS something in the OP's glycerin he cannot tollerate. It could be a trace element as you note for sure.

I am not so sure it couldn't be the source substance as well as I have read many anecdotal reports from users who have had bad results with animal or vegatable based glycerin but can use the other. It is also possible that thier problems resulted in one of the other things in the glycerine and had nothing to do with the base substance.


My conclusions are:
If one type/brand does not work for you, others may or may not
I won'y buy my glycerin from the guy that obtains it as a by product of an illicit drug lab. 8-o

 

[Darmeen]

If you are buying USP, then yes I agree.

The product originally in question was obtained in Armenia, I am not sure it was USP even though it was bought in a local pharmacy there as I did not note where the OP ever mentioned it was marked as USP.

Regardless of the 3 sources for glycerin (animal vegatable or synthetic)
there IS something in the OP's glycerin he cannot tollerate. It could be a trace element as you note for sure.

I am not so sure it couldn't be the source substance as well as I have read many anecdotal reports from users who have had bad results with animal or vegatable based glycerin but can use the other. It is also possible that thier problems resulted in one of the other things in the glycerine and had nothing to do with the base substance.


My conclusions are:
If one type/brand does not work for you, others may or may not
I won'y buy my glycerin from the guy that obtains it as a by product of an illicit drug lab. 8-o

I am going on a guess here (as I have never been to Armenia), but they probably don't have ANYTHING marked USP.

OP, you may be best suited to purchase via the internet some VG that is USP Glycerin...then you would know for sure that the VG you were purchasing is the VG to use.

 

[NightShadow]

More food for thought on the topic:

This gives a run down on USP, glycerin, glycerine, Glycol, FCC (Food Chemicals Codex) The different grades of glycerin including technical etc.
Why Glycerine USP?

This small snippet relates to how much DEG and EG can be in glycerin and still be USP: Hot Topics: USP Glycerin Information

The same DEG and EG can also be in PG: Hot Topics: USP Propylene Glycol and Sorbitol Solution Information

To me this sheds a lot of light on why some people have adverse reactions. There may be no easy way to tell exactly what is in a given products other few percent, hopefully for those allergic to peanuts that is not included as a special bonus.

 

[Scottes]

But you can be certain that USP stuff is safe - even if it tastes like soap or gives you a headache, it won't KILL you.

Probably.

 

[SLDS181]

I obtained the USP statement from manf. website, if you dont agree thats fine.
Here is an example of clealry marketed USP VG: KIC Chemicals, Inc. - Glycerin

And once again, it is "USP Glycerin". It may also say, sourced from, made with, whatever, but it will never say "USP Vegetable Glycerin". They aren't allowed, or they can't call it USP.

One question however, can something derived from 3 different sources, animal vegetable and chemical while being "CHEMICALLY THE SAME" still affect people who may be allergic to ONE of the base products differently?

No. There has to be another factor, the biproducts as a result of each chemically different products, ie: impurities remaining.

There have been people here who have used usp glycerin sourced entirely from vegetable products who have made claims of specific brands being poisonous, toxic, etc, and that it wasn't VG (they based this claim on the fact that it didn't specifically say so on the label). It was, however, vegetable derived glycerin. These discussions have happened so many times already, which is why its a bit infuriating to see it yet again.

And yes since it is from outside it may contain other impurities like the deg or OTHER things.

My point was to suggest trying a more well known / hopefully safer product, and point out the reasons for using this at all. And not get into a debate about how a manufacturer markets or labels a product.

My point was, if they had a reaction like this, it wasn't actually USP Glycerin, its in their head, or they just kept inhaling non-stop. If all you do is puff VG all day long, inhaling all of it, non-stop.... you're going to feel sick. Your head will hurt. Your throat will feel horrible. Your chest will hurt due to irritation.

 

[SLDS181]

To me this sheds a lot of light on why some people have adverse reactions. There may be no easy way to tell exactly what is in a given products other few percent, hopefully for those allergic to peanuts that is not included as a special bonus.

Which is why those with nut allergies should not be using glycerin - its been covered in the new members section, the health section, etc.

 

[Scottes]

There has to be another factor, the biproducts as a result of each chemically different products, ie: impurities remaining.
...
My point was, if they had a reaction like this, it wasn't actually USP Glycerin, its in their head, or they just kept inhaling non-stop.

These two sentences seem to go against each other. Or the second sentence should have the following appended: "or they had an issue with any of the remaining impurities."

 

[SLDS181]

These two sentences seem to go against each other. Or the second sentence should have the following appended: "or they had an issue with any of the remaining impurities."

You're right, that should be added onto the last sentence.

But to meet USP requirements, that should not be a factor.