Vegetable Gylcerin vs Generic Glycerin

[markarich159]

Now's website for sure lists, its ingrediants---seems clean for sure:

"What is the source of NOW® Vegetable Glycerine, and can it be used as a sweetener?
NOW® Vegetable Glycerine is a natural by-product of the cosmetic industry. It is derived from palm oil and is 100% pure. Vegetable Glycerine is safe to use as a natural sweetener, and actually metabolizes slower than regular table sugar."


USP Grade from Now.


Sun

In order to be sure the Glycerine is Pharmaceutical grade, manufactured to the coompendial standards of the USP and made in an FDA licensed facility using cGMP(current good monufacturing practices), the label must say (on the front, the actual NAME of the product) Glycerine,USP.

Anything else is suspect(Vegetable Glycerine, Kosher glycerine, Kosher vegetable glycerine, vegetable kosher glycerine, super duper wonderful fantastic we swear it's the most awsomest ever vegetable kosher glycerine), it may be made to great standards or it may not be. (As per the DSHEA of 1994, it's up to the manufacturer how they make it and what they say on the label)

 

[SLDS181]

I dont see any reason why something cannot be USP glycerine, AND vegetable based however

....

Please look at whats in quotes. As in, what is inside quotes, EXACTLY. Unchanged. Not separate. As in, put together EXACTLY as what was written.

I said, a bottle is not allowed to say quote USP Vegetable Glycerin, unquote. It can be VG, and say that it is VG, but if it says USP, it will never, under any circumstances say.... quote! USP Vegetable Glycerin, unquote.

The two are not mutually exclusive. The words USP Vegetable Glycerin, together, as three words in a row, legally are not allowed to exist. You can say:

"This vegetable glycerin is USP grade"

"This USP Glycerin product is sourced entirely from vegetables"

You cannot say:

"This is USP Vegetable Glycerin". To have the USP rating, they can't say this. Glycerin, as it is listed as a pharmacological product, is only Glycerin. The chemical. USP grading does not differentiate, and in order to say "USP", they cannot differentiate as USP Vegetable Glycerin. They can call it USP Glycerin from veggies, or Vegetable Glycerin which meets USP requirements.

If it says its VG, that doesn't mean its USP.

If it says its USP, that doesn't mean its VG.

If it says its USP, then its safe (barring allergies).

If it says its Vegetable Glycerin, its not necessarily safe.

If it doesn't say its USP grade, I wouldn't buy it.

If it only tells you its vegetable glycerin, I wouldn't buy it.

If you're allergic to peanuts, don't buy vegetable glycerin. Instead, look to USP glycerin sourced from animals (their fats, really).

If you're allergic to pork or some such, don't buy glycerin sourced from animals. Buy vegetable glycerin.

If you're allergic to both, don't buy glycerin.

If you aren't allergic to either, buy USP and stop worrying about it.

If you're allergic to PG, go with glycerin.

If you're allergic to PG and both types of glycerin, find out if you can use PEG (polyethylene glycol).

If you can't use any of it, put down your PV, and walk away. Buy something that vaporizes solids like the iolite.

quote! USP Vegetable Glycerin unquote does not exist. USP Glycerin made entirely from vegetable sources does.

Was this clear enough for you?

 

[NightShadow]

....

Please look at whats in quotes. As in, what is inside quotes, EXACTLY. Unchanged. Not separate. As in, put together EXACTLY as what was written.

I said, a bottle is not allowed to say quote USP Vegetable Glycerin, unquote. It can be VG, and say that it is VG, but if it says USP, it will never, under any circumstances say.... quote! USP Vegetable Glycerin, unquote.

The two are not mutually exclusive. The words USP Vegetable Glycerin, together, as three words in a row, legally are not allowed to exist. You can say:

"This vegetable glycerin is USP grade"

"This USP Glycerin product is sourced entirely from vegetables"

You cannot say:

"This is USP Vegetable Glycerin". To have the USP rating, they can't say this. Glycerin, as it is listed as a pharmacological product, is only Glycerin. The chemical. USP grading does not differentiate, and in order to say "USP", they cannot differentiate as USP Vegetable Glycerin. They can call it USP Glycerin from veggies, or Vegetable Glycerin which meets USP requirements.

If it says its VG, that doesn't mean its USP.

If it says its USP, that doesn't mean its VG.

If it says its USP, then its safe (barring allergies). I doubt USP is saying it is safe to VAPE, but simply safe for the intended use/uses which do not include vaping. Am I wrong here or has USP actually tested the effects of this for our intended use?

If it says its Vegetable Glycerin, its not necessarily safe. Nor necessarily unsafe? Perhaps less quantifiable / verifiable is a better way to view this?

If it doesn't say its USP grade, I wouldn't buy it.
(I am pro choice )

If it only tells you its vegetable glycerin, I wouldn't buy it.
(I am pro choice )

If you're allergic to peanuts, don't buy vegetable glycerin. Instead, look to USP glycerin sourced from animals (their fats, really). This was something I must have missed earlier, as I had been thinking it could not say what it was sourced from and still be USP.

If you're allergic to pork or some such, don't buy glycerin sourced from animals. Buy vegetable glycerin. same as item above.

If you're allergic to both, don't buy glycerin.

If you aren't allergic to either, buy USP and stop worrying about it. I do not think USP = USP certified as safe to vape. I vape it anyway

If you're allergic to PG, go with glycerin.

If you're allergic to PG and both types of glycerin, find out if you can use PEG (polyethylene glycol). (good idea)

If you can't use any of it, put down your PV, and walk away. Buy something that vaporizes solids like the iolite.

quote! USP Vegetable Glycerin unquote does not exist. USP Glycerin made entirely from vegetable sources does. This is what I wanted to clarify.

Was this clear enough for you?

Thank You!

I added a few notes / questions in red.

This clears up many things, namely we can buy USP glycerin, and have it labeled as being sourced from animal, vegetable or synthetic and have that somewhere on the label, just not between the word USP and Glycerin.

The way I took things previously it seemed that something could only say USP glycerin, and could NOT have the source listed, which stuck me as being less than a good thing. I really want to know where it came from!

This would be important for those that are allergic, and of lesser philosophical concern for vegans, not that I am either. I would not opt to vape the synthetic myself but that is simply my preference.

(Vegan's please do not take the term "lesser" as a slight, I only mean as people with allergies can die, you wouldn't)

I honestly think we have the same goal here: to ensure people have the correct information, and have it presented in a way that does not require one to have several degrees to understand (labeling, chemistry, law, etc)

Your assistance and patience are appreciated, and again:

I Thank You.

 

[SLDS181]

USP Grading has been tested as safe to use for medical purposes in inhaled forms (think asthma inhalers). Not the quantity, etc, we are using it at, but PG and VG are not bio-cumulative, and only can cause temporary respiratory irritation.

The word "safe" as used is "safe" to our knowledge. PG and Glycerin are both GRAS, and buying a USP grade product is the best you can buy. If you want the safest, buy USP grade.

I say "not necessarily" for VG, because even though its VG, without saying its USP, you cannot account for any impurities. Just because its vegetable glycerin does not mean it meets pharmacological standards for purity, so be wary. Buy USP grade vegetable glycerin.

There is no such listing as "safe to vape", but we know alot about PG and Glycerin, and we know they are safe products. The are chemically inert, they are not (as mentioned) bio-cumulative, and experiments have been conducted (by the entertainment industry for use with fog machines) for inhalation.

All USP means is that it is a pure product, safe from major contaminants, at a level that could be used in medicine. It means nothing regarding safety of the chemical itself or its applied use, but "safety" in terms of its chemical composition and lack of significant contaminants.

PG and Glycerin are available without prescriptions because they are GRAS, which touches on an entirely different subject, as being Generally Recognized As Safe.

 

[NightShadow]

SLDS181, thanks again for pointing the above out.

It would seem that now we only need studies for the nic, and whatever flavorings we may be using, and um..oh yeah FDA to not ban this

 

[Scottes]

Does the USP differentiate between ingesting / inhaling / topical?

Is everything USP certified/regulated for all 3 at once?

This seems smart-..., but it's not: What about getting it in your eye? Is that considered topical?

 

[SLDS181]

Does the USP differentiate between ingesting / inhaling / topical?

Is everything USP certified/regulated for all 3 at once?

This seems smart-..., but it's not: What about getting it in your eye? Is that considered topical?

USP does not apply to use in any way. However, USP grade materials are whats used for any tests.

It applies to purity, consistency, quality, etc.

FDA tests for use, USP tests for quality.

 

[SLDS181]

Existing tests (primarily for PG in this link) can be found here:

Propylene Glycol Research Study Results

and here (generic pv safety):

Studies suggesting PV safety

 

[SLDS181]

What about getting it in your eye? Is that considered topical?

And as an aside, yes, your eye is considered topical use. Uses have to be specific, and warnings specific, if a topical product cannot be used on (given the example) your eyes.

 

[grouch]

is NOW vegetable glycerine ok or not?

 

[markarich159]

And as an aside, yes, your eye is considered topical use. Uses have to be specific, and warnings specific, if a topical product cannot be used on (given the example) your eyes.

SLDS181, you were EXACTLY correct about everything you said on this entire page, except this. Eye preps are opthalmic preps; and topical and opthalmic preparations are not interchangable. Opthalmic preps are required to be sterile(whereas topical preps are not). Also, opthalmic preps must also be isotonic(the exact same osmolality) as lacrimal fluid(so, basically, the same equivalent ionic concentration as tears - which is 0.9% NaCl or equivalent), IF Possible(In some preparations, the required primary drug concentration precludes this from being possible). However, both glycerine,USP and Propylene Glycol,USP are common ingredients in opthalmic preps and completely safe.

Other then that, Kudos, you hit the nail on the head, repeatedly.

 

[NightShadow]

is NOW vegetable glycerine ok or not?

This exemplifies my point that this stuff is not as easy as it seems to figure out. (no offense grouch)

I believe the consensus is: USP GLYCERINE (on front of label) is safe. (or at least as safe as we can get)

The Now vegetable glycerin I am using that says it is usp and food grade on the back, may not be usp certified. I have not had any bad effects from using it so I would say it is safe enough for me (and my wife). However I am a rebel, having knowingly inhaled 4800+ things, many known to have been bad!

I would put this one in the realm of "suspect" and "health food" and leave it up to you to either make up your own mind, or look for one with USP GLYCERIN on the front label.

The short answer: USP Certified may be different from USP grade, hopefully one of the more knowledgable folks can clear this up for you.

 

[markarich159]

is NOW vegetable glycerine ok or not?

The answer really is, Maybe??? If it does not say "Glycerine,USP" as the actual name of the product on the front label, it is impossible to tell unless you, personally, saw the specific batch made yourself.

If it says Glycerine,USP on the front of the label as the actual product name it tells you 3 things.
1. The product was made to the exact specifications listed in the USP monograph for Glycerine,USP.
2. The manufacturer is FDA registered and licensed and the product HAS been approved(including the labeling) by the FDA as meeting USP spec.
3. The product was made in a FDA certified facility using cGMP(current good manufacturing practices) which are stringent to ensure lot to lot consistency.

If it DOESN'T say Glycerine,USP on the front of the label(as the actual name of the product) none of the above 3 things are guaranteed. So the product may or may not be made to USP(or any other) spec(basically whatever the particular manufacturer wants it to be). The manufacturer may or may not be FDA Licensed(some may not even be registered). The product hasn't been approved by the FDA(nor has the labeling or marketing material). Finally as to the the facility and manufacturing process, who knows.

That's not to say the product is bad or unuseable, in fact, it may be perfectly fine, you just don't know.

If I'm going to be inhaling something into my lungs, I want it to be the best possibly available and I want to be sure that it is.

 

[a2dcovert]

The answer really is, Maybe??? If it does not say "Glycerine,USP" as the actual name of the product on the front label, it is impossible to tell unless you, personally, saw the specific batch made yourself.

If it says Glycerine,USP on the front of the label as the actual product name it tells you 3 things.
1. The product was made to the exact specifications listed in the USP monograph for Glycerine,USP.
2. The manufacturer is FDA registered and licensed and the product HAS been approved(including the labeling) by the FDA as meeting USP spec.
3. The product was made in a FDA certified facility using cGMP(current good manufacturing practices) which are stringent to ensure lot to lot consistency.

If it DOESN'T say Glycerine,USP on the front of the label(as the actual name of the product) none of the above 3 things are guaranteed. So the product may or may not be made to USP(or any other) spec(basically whatever the particular manufacturer wants it to be). The manufacturer may or may not be FDA Licensed(some may not even be registered). The product hasn't been approved by the FDA(nor has the labeling or marketing material). Finally as to the the facility and manufacturing process, who knows.

That's not to say the product is bad or unuseable, in fact, it may be perfectly fine, you just don't know.

If I'm going to be inhaling something into my lungs, I want it to be the best possibly available and I want to be sure that it is.

Hi Mark,

We seem to be hashing and rehashing this glycerine question over and over. Is it possible for you and the Moderators to put up a sticky to address these questions?. It would be nice to have all the facts from previous posts combined into one thread for questions and answers on glycerine.

Kevin

 

[Sun Vaporer]

In order to be sure the Glycerine is Pharmaceutical grade, manufactured to the coompendial standards of the USP and made in an FDA licensed facility using cGMP(current good monufacturing practices), the label must say (on the front, the actual NAME of the product) Glycerine,USP.

Anything else is suspect(Vegetable Glycerine, Kosher glycerine, Kosher vegetable glycerine, vegetable kosher glycerine, super duper wonderful fantastic we swear it's the most awsomest ever vegetable kosher glycerine), it may be made to great standards or it may not be. (As per the DSHEA of 1994, it's up to the manufacturer how they make it and what they say on the label)

Well I gave Now a ring today and they can document that their VG is USP grade, so that is enough for me.

Thank you,

Sun

 

[a2dcovert]

Well I gave Now a ring today and they can document that their VG is USP grade, so that is enough for me.

Thank you,

Sun

So, maybe we don't want any more discussion? Thanks Sun for researching this.

Kevin

 

[Oliver]

So, maybe we don't want any more discussion? Thanks Sun for researching this.

Kevin

Hang on, not quite.

Mark has stated that the USP certified label must be on the bottle in order to guarantee that it has gone through the correct assessment or production process (not sure which).

It's possible that there is a distinction between "USP grade" and "USP certified", and that some producers might be using semantics to make their product seem more attractive whilst staying within the law.

Perhaps if they realised that we are inhaling their product they'd be a bit more cautious?

In any case, I'm waiting for Markarich (certified pharmacist, I remind you) to confirm that this is correct.

I would personally recommend that anyone who is purchasing VG to listen very carefully to Mark.

SJ

 

[SLDS181]

SLDS181, you were EXACTLY correct about everything you said on this entire page, except this. Eye preps are opthalmic preps; and topical and opthalmic preparations are not interchangable.

I was referring to the word, topical, which includes any of the exposed mucous membranes, but we'd be getting into semantics on that one

 

[markarich159]

Hang on, not quite.

Mark has stated that the USP certified label must be on the bottle in order to guarantee that it has gone through the correct assessment or production process (not sure which).

It's possible that there is a distinction between "USP grade" and "USP certified", and that some producers might be using semantics to make their product seem more attractive whilst staying within the law.

Perhaps if they realised that we are inhaling their product they'd be a bit more cautious?

In any case, I'm waiting for Markarich (certified pharmacist, I remind you) to confirm that this is correct.

I would personally recommend that anyone who is purchasing VG to listen very carefully to Mark.

SJ

I'm officially out of the VG, PG discussion, Believe and Inhale whatever you'd like.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I'm officially out of the VG, PG discussion, Believe and Inhale whatever you'd like.

Mark--no one that I know is challanging you--but when it comes to NOW VG--it is certifed USP VG---There are many others out there that are not. To be sure members can always call the manufactures and ask for the documentation.

Thanks


Sun