FDA Deeming updates VTA issues FDA regulations calendar
- Thread starter Oliver
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
You know... I said in another thread that I never really, honestly bought into "conspiracy theories"...
Now I gotta really, REALLY start taking into consideration what I order online these days?
We all know, (well, most of us anyway...) that 18650 batteries, wire and cotton/cellulose will not be regulated in as such as liquids or devices and their specific parts will be.
Now I have to be suspicious if I order another box of Cellucotton and some 26g that I'll be flagged as suspicious?!?
Do I get the standard Reynolds foil wrap, or is the Heavy-Duty oven stuff better?
That was tongue-in-cheek, but I'm starting to see what lengths those out to protect me are going to in order to do so.
But seeing what's going on these days, and reading into these...Damn!... Looks like you guys with the tin foil hats were right all along!
Now I gotta really, REALLY start taking into consideration what I order online these days?
We all know, (well, most of us anyway...) that 18650 batteries, wire and cotton/cellulose will not be regulated in as such as liquids or devices and their specific parts will be.
Now I have to be suspicious if I order another box of Cellucotton and some 26g that I'll be flagged as suspicious?!?
Do I get the standard Reynolds foil wrap, or is the Heavy-Duty oven stuff better?
That was tongue-in-cheek, but I'm starting to see what lengths those out to protect me are going to in order to do so.
And once they do they are considered a tobacco shop by Aug correct? Then any product they carry that has not been submitted for approval to FDA becomes an illegal device, ah very clever FDA. Force the vendors to close their own doors by complying to FDA.
Anyone who Vapes and is into the hobby knows when a new product comes out, not a stretch for the U.S. govt to do the same or much better. Pretty obvious as to when a Kayfun 5 or SX Mini ML started shipping as an example. A quick web search would tell you that.
Who knows about cloned products, but I am not chancing it.
Now you're getting it. That is why we are all saying that these regulations are in FACT a ban on vaping, regardless what the FDA says otherwise.
They Know what they are doing. It is very cleverly cloaked.
Outside at risk business Due to FDA Intent:
Manufacturer of -
Stainless Steel Wire
Nickel Wire
Titanium Wire
NiFe Wire
Kanthal Wire
Growers of Cotton
Producers of Argon Gas
Nut/Bolt/Screw
Delrin
ABS Plastics
Nylon
Rayon
Enamel Paint
Lacquer Paint
Engraving Equipment
Heavy Production Machinery
Interstate Transportation
etc.
A Virtual Smorgasbord of possible Future Federal/State increased Tax Revenues.
I've said before, Government cannot TAX this country out of Debt. While the possibilities are endless for Taxation, So is Government Spending.
Manufacturer of -
Stainless Steel Wire
Nickel Wire
Titanium Wire
NiFe Wire
Kanthal Wire
Growers of Cotton
Producers of Argon Gas
Nut/Bolt/Screw
Delrin
ABS Plastics
Nylon
Rayon
Enamel Paint
Lacquer Paint
Engraving Equipment
Heavy Production Machinery
Interstate Transportation
etc.
A Virtual Smorgasbord of possible Future Federal/State increased Tax Revenues.
I've said before, Government cannot TAX this country out of Debt. While the possibilities are endless for Taxation, So is Government Spending.
Bonus Fact - Most States Require a Tobacco Tax License to operate a Tobacco business or you are in Criminal Violation of state law.
Any Vendors not in compliance could be dead in the water on Day 91.
Outside at risk business Due to FDA Intent:
Manufacturer of -
Stainless Steel Wire
Nickel Wire
Titanium Wire
NiFe Wire
Kanthal Wire
Growers of Cotton
Producers of Argon Gas
Nut/Bolt/Screw
Delrin
ABS Plastics
Nylon
Rayon
Enamel Paint
Lacquer Paint
Engraving Equipment
Heavy Production Machinery
Interstate Transportation
etc.
A Virtual Smorgasbord of possible Future Federal/State increased Tax Revenues.
I've said before, Government cannot TAX this country out of Debt. While the possibilities are endless for Taxation, So is Government Spending.
That is quite possibly the single most alarmist nonsense I have read yet on this subject.
Levis can no longer sell clothes to teenagers because cotton is a tobacco product. And you REALLY think a company like Levis isn't going to challenge that one in court? And you REALLY think a court is going to side with the FDA over Levis in regards to calling cotton used in clothing a tobacco product because some people use cotton balls to wick their atomizers?
What about silicon chip, printed circuit boards, copper wire, and soldier? Every regulated mod uses those too, right?
I can't wait to see the FDA try to tell the likes of Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc... that they can no longer sell any of their electronics to people under 18 because the chips, circuit boards, screws, buttons, paint, wires, and plastics are all tobacco products. You think Big Tobacco has money to throw around? Google, Apple, and Microsoft could afford to buy every big tobacco and big pharma company on earth and still show a profit on their next quarterly statement.
How long do you think the current government would last in power if these companies pooled their resources together and decided to get rid of them? They make more money in a year than the US government does.
This alarmist nonsense really needs to stop. The government will regulate Nicotine, completed mods, and atomizers. Virtually everything else has a long established history of being used in products not at all related to vaping. Regulating ABS plastic as a tobacco product? Enamel paint as a tobacco product? As if that was even remotely possible. It wouldn't last 5 minutes in court before that was declared a far overreach of authority and thrown out. Far too many industries rely on these products and vaping is a minuscule market in comparison. You're talking trillions of dollars of commerce and tens of thousands of companies affected and you really think they're all going to stand by and do nothing while the FDA tells them they cannot produce or sell their products anymore because the supplies to make them are tobacco products? Lunacy, sheer lunacy.
Theoretically most every item on this list is at risk.
The manufacturer of raw materials theoretically may not be. Once manufactured however
the chain of possession becomes the key factor. Who knows what was sold to whom and when and what did they do with it. Sony has isolated itself from the e-cig industry. The problem
would arise if Sony found out that batteries sold to OEM's were being siphoned off to third parties
and wound up in vaping products. Now it would be a mater of how far the FDA is willing or allowed
to go up the supply chain.
Heavy Production Machinery
This in all likely hood will not have a problem as they are not needed
unless their used in mass production. Does the FDA regulate the cigarette making machines of BT?
Enamel Paint
Lacquer Paint
Engraving Equipment
These in and of themselves are by far the most untouchable. One wonders however
what the FDA's response would be to their use in printing intent labels used on things really
meant to be used in vaping products.
I by no means am implying what the FDA would do. My point is the FDA can and would
attempt to bring anything under its compliance umbrella if they choose to do so and if the
courts,congress or, monied concerns didn't stop them in a official capacity or with behind the
scenes pressure.
Regards
Mike
That is quite possibly the single most alarmist nonsense I have read yet on this subject.
Levis can no longer sell clothes to teenagers because cotton is a tobacco product. And you REALLY think a company like Levis isn't going to challenge that one in court? And you REALLY think a court is going to side with the FDA over Levis in regards to calling cotton used in clothing a tobacco product because some people use cotton balls to wick their atomizers?
What about silicon chip, printed circuit boards, copper wire, and soldier? Every regulated mod uses those too, right?
I can't wait to see the FDA try to tell the likes of Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc... that they can no longer sell any of their electronics to people under 18 because the chips, circuit boards, screws, buttons, paint, wires, and plastics are all tobacco products. You think Big Tobacco has money to throw around? Google, Apple, and Microsoft could afford to buy every big tobacco and big pharma company on earth and still show a profit on their next quarterly statement.
How long do you think the current government would last in power if these companies pooled their resources together and decided to get rid of them? They make more money in a year than the US government does.
This alarmist nonsense really needs to stop. The government will regulate Nicotine, completed mods, and atomizers. Virtually everything else has a long established history of being used in products not at all related to vaping. Regulating ABS plastic as a tobacco product? Enamel paint as a tobacco product? As if that was even remotely possible. It wouldn't last 5 minutes in court before that was declared a far overreach of authority and thrown out. Far too many industries rely on these products and vaping is a minuscule market in comparison. You're talking trillions of dollars of commerce and tens of thousands of companies affected and you really think they're all going to stand by and do nothing while the FDA tells them they cannot produce or sell their products anymore because the supplies to make them are tobacco products? Lunacy, sheer lunacy.
Dude..........Chill. Read all my other post. I have no Alarm to ring, just pointing out the Ridiculousness of INTENT as defined by the FDA
I don't even have a dog in this Hunt and have been self sufficient for over a year.
Now, if you want Alarm - Best tell your local Vendors to check State mandate for Tobacco Licensing............come Day 91 it may well be required.
And how would that function exactly? Customs can't keep up - hell they aren't even treading water - with inspections for incoming crate containers. The FDA status quo for inspections regarding salmonella etc. outbreaks is to inspect and assess after the poop of an outbreak hits the fan. So which gubbermint agency is going to be looking for - let alone inspecting - each and every itty bitty package that floods into this country from overseas purchases every day?
I'm as skeptical as the next guy when it comes to our government's capacity to actually function - and this time that will probably be a good thing. File this aspect of the regulations under "unfunded mandate."
Outrageous scenario's dilute the fact of what is happening and will happen and possibly happenThat is quite possibly the single most alarmist nonsense I have read yet on this subject.
Levis can no longer sell clothes to teenagers because cotton is a tobacco product. And you REALLY think a company like Levis isn't going to challenge that one in court? And you REALLY think a court is going to side with the FDA over Levis in regards to calling cotton used in clothing a tobacco product because some people use cotton balls to wick their atomizers?
What about silicon chip, printed circuit boards, copper wire, and soldier? Every regulated mod uses those too, right?
I can't wait to see the FDA try to tell the likes of Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc... that they can no longer sell any of their electronics to people under 18 because the chips, circuit boards, screws, buttons, paint, wires, and plastics are all tobacco products. You think Big Tobacco has money to throw around? Google, Apple, and Microsoft could afford to buy every big tobacco and big pharma company on earth and still show a profit on their next quarterly statement.
How long do you think the current government would last in power if these companies pooled their resources together and decided to get rid of them? They make more money in a year than the US government does.
This alarmist nonsense really needs to stop. The government will regulate Nicotine, completed mods, and atomizers. Virtually everything else has a long established history of being used in products not at all related to vaping. Regulating ABS plastic as a tobacco product? Enamel paint as a tobacco product? As if that was even remotely possible. It wouldn't last 5 minutes in court before that was declared a far overreach of authority and thrown out. Far too many industries rely on these products and vaping is a minuscule market in comparison. You're talking trillions of dollars of commerce and tens of thousands of companies affected and you really think they're all going to stand by and do nothing while the FDA tells them they cannot produce or sell their products anymore because the supplies to make them are tobacco products? Lunacy, sheer lunacy.
as the result of these deeming regulations. Lets concentrate on what would most likely come
under the preview of the FDA. The comparison to Levi's jeans is way out of the purview of
these discussions. However if it was discovered that denim made from Levi's jeans made the best
wicking known to vaperkind......
Regards
Mike
I read through the guide and saw this
Manufacturers of nicotine-free tobacco products may instead certify to FDA that their products contain zero nicotine and that they have the data to prove it. Such products may instead use the statement "This product is made from tobacco" using the same size and format as the nicotine warning statement.
Maybe I'm just not understanding it but if something is a nicotine free tobacco product then why should it be labeled that it is made from tobacco?
Manufacturers of nicotine-free tobacco products may instead certify to FDA that their products contain zero nicotine and that they have the data to prove it. Such products may instead use the statement "This product is made from tobacco" using the same size and format as the nicotine warning statement.
Maybe I'm just not understanding it but if something is a nicotine free tobacco product then why should it be labeled that it is made from tobacco?
Catch 22
If inhaled for any other purpose it would be in violation of some other Food/Drug regulation.
To Deem:
- transitive verb
- : to come to think or judge : consider <deemed it wise to go slow>
- intransitive verb
- : to have an opinion : believe
Did You Know?
In the Middle Ages, "demen" was a fateful word. Closely related to "doom," this precursor of deem meant "to act as a judge" or "to sentence, condemn, or decree." These meanings passed to "deem" itself, but we haven't used "deem" to mean "legally condemn" since the early 17th century. Though "deem" is still frequently used in law contexts, today it means "judge" only in a broader sense of "to decide (something specified) regarding," as in "the act was deemed unlawful" or "the defendant is deemed to have agreed to the contract." Outside of the law, "deem" usually means simply "to consider." Some usage commentators consider "deem" pretentious, but its use is well established in both literary and journalistic contexts. We deem it perfectly acceptable.
----
So while we haven't used the word "deem" to mean 'legally condemn' since the early 17th century, that history has changed on May 10, 2016.
Just breaking this quote out for clarity,
"Manufacturers of nicotine-free tobacco products may instead certify to FDA that their products contain zero nicotine and that they have the data to prove it."
So if you make a product derived from tobacco, but it has no nicotine in it, and are willing to produce a lab certificate that no nicotine is detected, you're done and require no further labeling.
"Such products may instead use the statement "This product is made from tobacco" using the same size and format as the nicotine warning statement"
If you don't want to spend the money on testing to prove there's no nicotine, you have to include the phrase "This is made from tobacco" on the label. So be prepared to either get a certificate of analysis your "tobacco derived product" contains no nicotine, or label it as made from tobacco.
"Manufacturers of nicotine-free tobacco products may instead certify to FDA that their products contain zero nicotine and that they have the data to prove it."
So if you make a product derived from tobacco, but it has no nicotine in it, and are willing to produce a lab certificate that no nicotine is detected, you're done and require no further labeling.
"Such products may instead use the statement "This product is made from tobacco" using the same size and format as the nicotine warning statement"
If you don't want to spend the money on testing to prove there's no nicotine, you have to include the phrase "This is made from tobacco" on the label. So be prepared to either get a certificate of analysis your "tobacco derived product" contains no nicotine, or label it as made from tobacco.
Does anyone know if any e liquid or any vape device had applied yet? If no one applies, we have no product. Although I did find s fun page that shows ecigs/vaporizers invented as far back as 1920's I think. They have patents but I am sure they expired by now, but they were already out there.
If it was the Gilbert patent that was the 1960's not the 1920's. (What "electronic" could they have done in the 1920's? They were only getting their feet wet with practical commercial vacuum tube designs.)
Patent US3200819 - Smokeless non-tobacco cigarette
What's interesting is if you scroll down that patent link, you can see all the patents obtained referencing the Gilbert patent. Starting in the late 80's, all the way to now, BT was filing and obtaining dozens of patents for "electrical smoking systems". Vaping might have become popular in the last 5 years, but BT was staking its claim to this decades ago.
Must be nice to have such deep pockets, especially now that they're probably sitting with all the paperwork filled out to satisfy the Deeming regulations. Maybe they'll get a papercut on their tongue from licking the envelope they mail it in.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
