!! WARNING !! Kanger Subtank RBA Insulator Dissolving Into my Juice !!! What should I use to make one?

[JC87]

Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power

Its a good thing you caught the cracking early and stopped using it before it potentially failed completely.

Just a quick update since I stepped away from this whole discussion for a bit since it was getting tedious -- Im happily enjoying my subtank mini right now using the OCC coils while I wait for the replacement rba

 

[ErnieKim]

I was running a Strawberry & Caramel. A 70/30 VG/PG at 15watts on the .5ohm coil that came with the deck. Never had a bad flavor and I wouldn't have know if I hadn't inspected the insulator. Maybe ignorance is bliss and I shouldn't have checked at all...lol.

Jazzman,

Well that would make one wonder if the degradation of your clear insulator was due to the elevated heat of going sub-ohm. The chamber on the Mini is really small. While it does have a lot of airflow to pull the heat away, I would imagine that there is an awful lot of heat building up inside the chamber and that heat gets transferred to the deck and then the insulator. I have to think that if we release the battery button and continue to draw for a few seconds, we would draw out a lot of the heat and minimize the heating of the deck.
I believe that the Kanger 4 chamber is about the same size as the Mini chamber and they recommend NOT going sub-ohm with it due to overheating problems.
I'll be curious to see what Starre has to say. I'm pretty sure that JC87 was going sub-ohm with his too. Maybe they will pipe in and let us know.

One other question Jazzman, do you keep your coil real close to the deck when you build? That would put a lot more heat into the deck.

Of course this is not to say that all clear insulators would crack under the same conditions, yours could very well have been sub-standard material. Sure makes me curious though.

ErnieKim

ErnieKim

 

[ErnieKim]

Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power

Its a good thing you caught the cracking early and stopped using it before it potentially failed completely.

Just a quick update since I stepped away from this whole discussion for a bit since it was getting tedious -- Im happily enjoying my subtank mini right now using the OCC coils while I wait for the replacement RBA

JC,
I don't blame you for stepping back. You took a lot of heat too.
Erniekim

 

[JC87]

JC,
I don't blame you for stepping back. You took a lot of heat too.
Erniekim

Almost as much as my insulator did!

I'm pretty sure that JC87 was going sub-ohm with his too.

Yeah, I was using what came pre-installed inside the RBA which is a .5 ohm coil

 

[ErnieKim]

Almost as much as my insulator did!



Yeah, I was using what came pre-installed inside the RBA which is a .5 ohm coil

Well that's interesting. Do you keep your coils close to the deck when you build? I do because it seems to give better flavor. But at the same time, it would put much more heat into the deck.

Also, do you chain vape? I usually do two to three hits which would heat it up even more.

Mind you, I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong or out of the ordinary.

 

[JC87]

Not to get back into the insulator topic as its been beaten into the ground, but I didnt alter the position of the pre-installed coil, I used it as it came. I did chain vape occasionally (3-4 decent sized pulls within a minute or so) but never received a dry hit due to it. Others who constantly insinuated that it must have been due to user error must have missed everything I've said regarding the issue, or just choose not to believe me for whatever reason they harbor. And I'll leave it at that

 

[ErnieKim]

Not to get back into the insulator topic as its been beaten into the ground, but I didnt alter the position of the pre-installed coil, I used it as it came. I did chain vape occasionally (3-4 decent sized pulls within a minute or so) but never received a dry hit due to it. Others who constantly insinuated that it must have been due to user error must have missed everything I've said regarding the issue, or just choose not to believe me for whatever reason they harbor. And I'll leave it at that

JC,

There are a lot of self-proclaimed experts on forums, no doubt. I've taken a beating too but I'm sticking with the premise that forums are for sharing information and not for passing judgement. Like I said before, we're all adults here and can make our own decisions. You can learn a lot here if you're not close-minded. Keep in mind that you've gotten a lot of Thank You messages as well.

 

[JC87]

Oh no doubt, I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I can take some heat For all those who appreciated me sharing my experience with you, thanks I hope I was of some help because Im sure most are sick of hearing about it by now Gonna just watch from the sidelines for the time being, as the constant bickering with some users became less than desirable for me on an otherwise very friendly and helpful forum.

 

[ErnieKim]

Oh no doubt, I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I can take some heat For all those who appreciated me sharing my experience with you, thanks I hope I was of some help because Im sure most are sick of hearing about it by now Gonna just watch from the sidelines for the time being, as the constant bickering with some users became less than desirable for me on an otherwise very friendly and helpful forum.

That could be your new slogan: "I can take more heat than my insulator"

 

[ErnieKim]

So, based on information from this thread alone, I'm going to throw out a quick theory. The reason for doing it is that it might help people to "baby" their Subtanks along until they get replacement insulators. This assumes they want to take the risk of something from the insulator leaching into their juice.

This is only a theory:

1) Kanger has problems with the original white insulator. The white insulator tolerates heat OK, but breaks down chemically.
2) They select the clear insulator because it will tolerate chemicals better but it is made from a more brittle material that can't tolerate the higher temperatures of sub ohm vaping and develops cracking problems.
3) They then select the brown insulator because it should be somewhere in between.

Some supporting background here is that I took apart one of my high-end decks which has been around a while. It has the same size chamber. The design is almost identical to the Subtank Mini. The insulator is also interchangeable with the Subtank Mini. The insulator is not as clear as the one Kanger provided and a little more flexible, allowing for thermal expansion.

ErnieKim

 

[Jazzman]

Jazzman,

Well that would make one wonder if the degradation of your clear insulator was due to the elevated heat of going sub-ohm. The chamber on the Mini is really small. While it does have a lot of airflow to pull the heat away, I would imagine that there is an awful lot of heat building up inside the chamber and that heat gets transferred to the deck and then the insulator. I have to think that if we release the battery button and continue to draw for a few seconds, we would draw out a lot of the heat and minimize the heating of the deck.
I believe that the Kanger 4 chamber is about the same size as the Mini chamber and they recommend NOT going sub-ohm with it due to overheating problems.
I'll be curious to see what Starre has to say. I'm pretty sure that JC87 was going sub-ohm with his too. Maybe they will pipe in and let us know.

One other question Jazzman, do you keep your coil real close to the deck when you build? That would put a lot more heat into the deck.

Of course this is not to say that all clear insulators would crack under the same conditions, yours could very well have been sub-standard material. Sure makes me curious though.

ErnieKim

ErnieKim

This makes no sense @erniekim. The coil I used was the coil that came with the mini pre-installed by Kanger. It was well away from the airflow hole like all the other stock RTA coils I have seen and measured 0.53ohms. And 15watts is a pretty non-aggressive amount of power to be put to the coil really. I hate hot vapes, which is the reason I only used this at 15watts and there is no melting of the insulator. It was just a failure of the insulator. And this failure occurred with 3 tanks of eliquid. The insulator appears to be very brittle at this point, but there is no melting. Just cracking to the point it is no longer usable.

My theory is that Kanger was getting inconsistent results from the insulator manufacturer (as you know Kanger doesn't manufacture anything, they have other companies manufacture their parts and Kanger designs, assembles, tests, packages, and ships final products). This might explain the change of insulator color if they went to another manufacturer for insulators and received products that were a different color and gave more consistent results. So this doesn't mean all clear insulators are bad, but maybe they had a small amount that didn't do well and passed a QC threshold that Kanger felt was unacceptable and decided a manufacturer change was prudent. Just a guess really, and doesn't matter if the problem is not widespread and is solved.

I have no idea why this occurred on some but not others, and like I said before, I'm not overly concerned since I believe Kanger has addressed the issue with either a different material or a different manufacturer of the insulator. Either way I'm sure whatever caused this has been solved and now I only have to wait until the part is available for sale. So a little patience for the parts to be available and I will be able to enjoy the RTA section again.

I wasn't going to post any pics of the insulator since I consider this to be an isolated incident and didn't really want to make an issue of this. But I have been requested by more than a few so here are a couple of poor res pics from my cell phone camera.

 

[JC87]

The color looks very similar to mine, as well as the cracking. However, the bottom of mine melted into into the rba, probably because I didnt catch mine nearly as soon as you did (at the time I had no idea there were issues with them)

What juice were you using? You said it happened at 15 watts so thats definitely very low. But the issue seems to be the same.

 

[drunkenbatman]

 

[ErnieKim]

My "theory" in my previous post seems to be holding up with respect to my premise that normal sub ohm vaping is the likely cause of cracking on a subset of the clear insulators. So far, 8 instances of cracking have been reported and all of them were doing sub ohm vaping. Not a big data set but it doesn't get any better than 100%.

These reports were in this thread, private messages and other forums. I didn't do any searching for instances, the reports from other forums came from private messages and I simply followed the links to confirm them. The private messages said that they were afraid to post here because some members can be so critical.

So moving away from sub ohm vaping until new insulators are available might help folks to keep their deck alive and well; The OCC coils should suffice if the sub ohm urge hits.

So, in the words of the illustrious Forest Gump; That's all I have to say about that.

ErnieKim

 

[ErnieKim]

See post # 179 for the steps (with a picture) on how to install your new insulator without stripping your threads.

In a nutshell, what it says is that SOME replacement insulators are a bit longer than they should be and cause the insulator to set at a slight angle which can result in stripping the threads of your post. You should keep the insulator and the block above it raised off the deck while starting the thread.

You can also trim a bit off of the short side before installing it, then it will sit flat as it should.

Post #183 shows how to get the post out. Don't use a pliers, it will mess up the post.

I got some questions as this was hard to find amidst 200+ posts. Hope this helps.

ErnieKim

 

[JC87]

Just wanted to report, I received the updated brown insulators from kanger today (no replacement RBA, but its ok. After a lot of effort I was able to completely remove the remains of the melted insulator and install the new one). My RBA section is working great again! No issues whatsoever. I am happy, though I also received my UD Goblin V1.2 today and its amazing! Easily my favorite tank by far, but the Subtank Mini is definitely pulling its weight as well.

 

[ErnieKim]

Just wanted to report, I received the updated brown insulators from kanger today (no replacement RBA, but its ok. After a lot of effort I was able to completely remove the remains of the melted insulator and install the new one). My RBA section is working great again! No issues whatsoever. I am happy, though I also received my UD Goblin V1.2 today and its amazing! Easily my favorite tank by far, but the Subtank Mini is definitely pulling its weight as well.

That's great. I can't imagine you'll have any further issues with the deck, but if you do, you could buy the clone that's for sale and swap out the deck.

Just joking as I was really suprised to see a clone of a popular tank made by a Chinese company. It's only a few dollars cheaper so I don't see the logic to buying it.

Wouldn't it be something if the clone was made in America? "What goes around, comes around"

Kim

 

[ErnieKim]

Just wanted to report, I received the updated brown insulators from kanger today (no replacement RBA, but its ok. After a lot of effort I was able to completely remove the remains of the melted insulator and install the new one). My RBA section is working great again! No issues whatsoever. I am happy, though I also received my UD Goblin V1.2 today and its amazing! Easily my favorite tank by far, but the Subtank Mini is definitely pulling its weight as well.

How's the flavor of the Goblin? I would think that all that air would overwhelm the chamber and result in kind of a "washed-out" flavor; you know what I mean?; the "air-to-vapor" ratio, so to speak?

I guess the fact that you can build two coils balances that out, right?

I think I just answered my own question.

Kim

 

[JC87]

How's the flavor of the Goblin? I would think that all that air would overwhelm the chamber and result in kind of a "washed-out" flavor; you know what I mean?; the "air-to-vapor" ratio, so to speak?

I guess the fact that you can build two coils balances that out, right?

I think I just answered my own question.

Kim

The flavor is ridiculously good, and the airflow is crazy! Im in love. I dont see anyone topping this tank for a while. I love how small its profile is while still delivering the goods! No dry hits at 50 watts, its insane.

They are selling replacement RBAs for the mini at the kangertechus sight now for 7 bucks, not bad really. Im thinking of getting it just to have the updated airhole screw insulator and the latest RBA deck revision, but so far, my current setup has been working fine with the new insulator. No complaints.

 

[ErnieKim]

The flavor is ridiculously good, and the airflow is crazy! Im in love. I dont see anyone topping this tank for a while. I love how small its profile is while still delivering the goods! No dry hits at 50 watts, its insane.

They are selling replacement RBAs for the mini at the kangertechus sight now for 7 bucks, not bad really. Im thinking of getting it just to have the updated airhole screw insulator and the latest RBA deck revision, but so far, my current setup has been working fine with the new insulator. No complaints.

My challenge with the Subtank Mini is that it's hard to get two LARGE coils in it. I have to build them big because I have switched to 100 VG. I can do it on the Mini but it's a challenge and then there's not much room left for cotton.

The Goblin makes it very easy, lots of room and the coil wire capture feature is a big plus, getting wires captured under a screw head is always a pain in the tush.

I'll have to get one. It's the ease of building that appeals to me.