We don't allow anything that LOOKS like smoking.
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That is untrue. They cannot exclude you for "any basis whatsoever". There has to be a "reasonable" reason.
You're probably right roland. Property rights ain't what she used to be. You can't allow smoking in your own bar/restaurant around here. There were "smoking police" peeking in a restaurants windows near here to see if the owner was smoking after closing time.
Let's see. I'm beginning to perceive that management at the Rafferty's is out to ruin my life personally. They singled me out of all the customers for some perverse reason. That's reality? That's nuts! And how exactly would a vaper present to the public that something relatively harmless is dangerous to others? lol
I think you did every thing you could and did it well. At least you didn't roll over like some of the sheep who post in here and just go to a dark corner of the parking lot and vape.
Here they come! Now it's kids.
Noise Prompts Pennsylvania Restaurant to Ban Kids Under 6
Read more: Noise Prompts Pennsylvania Restaurant to Ban Kids Under 6 - FoxNews.com
Noise Prompts Pennsylvania Restaurant to Ban Kids Under 6
Read more: Noise Prompts Pennsylvania Restaurant to Ban Kids Under 6 - FoxNews.com
Nice find, pipe. I've seen some pretty loud 7, 8 and 9 year olds in resturants also. I'm thinking anyone under the age of say 19-20 (you know how loud they can be) would make more sense.
As you've mentioned more than once, perception is reality ..
And, as I've mentioned more than once on other threads, I live in a state that has banned all smoking in public places even within 15 feet of the building .. and, trust me, there are plenty of voluntary cig police more than happy to call the law if they "perceive" you are smoking ..
I'm all for standing up for civil rights, however, I'm not interested in becoming the "Rosa Parks" of the e-cig industry .. nor am I interested in giving a seminar on what it is each and every time someone confronts me or gives me the eye .. sorry ..
So, I treat my e-cig the same way as if it were an analog .. because, as you say .. perception is reality ..
I understand not wanting to explain to "everyone" the difference between vaping and smoking. But you are basically stating that since it would be natural for the uninformed to assume it is as dangerous as smoking we should just continue to allow others to believe that, stigmatize us, ban us and agree with them that vaping is something that is dangerous and should be banned.
The only reason smoking has not been completely banned is because of the money it generates, the political power the tobacco lobby has and the negative effect it would have on the economy. The infant vaping industry does not have those type of protections. If you do not care if vaping is mischaracterized and banned then no one else should care either.
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Wow it looks like my perception is reality quote is getting a lot of mileage here so I would like to clarify a few thoughts. Just because I choose not be be confrontational in a given situation does not make me a sheep. I also find butting my head against a brick wall to be a rather fruitless exercise just like trying to convince someone of something that they have already completely made their mind up about. I personally believe in evolution but will not bother trying to convince a creationist about the merits of evolutionary theory. (Note: This is not an invite to debate this particular topic).
Maybe because exhaled vapor has a similar appearance to smoke thus creating the presentation to others that are not knowledgeable that it is just as dangerous to their health as smoke.
There is a time and place for everything. IMHO having a confrontation in a restaurant beyond offering an explanation of what vaping is will do nothing to further the cause or change public opinion. If I am looking to accomplish that I would start by writing my govt. reps, gathering signatures on a petition start a blog and publicize it as much as possible, write the newspapers to try and get my opinion in the editorials and anything else I can to make a positive impression on the uniformed.
Maybe because exhaled vapor has a similar appearance to smoke thus creating the presentation to others that are not knowledgeable that it is just as dangerous to their health as smoke.
There is a time and place for everything. IMHO having a confrontation in a restaurant beyond offering an explanation of what vaping is will do nothing to further the cause or change public opinion. If I am looking to accomplish that I would start by writing my govt. reps, gathering signatures on a petition start a blog and publicize it as much as possible, write the newspapers to try and get my opinion in the editorials and anything else I can to make a positive impression on the uniformed.
Hi PA
In this situation there was no complaining customer. There is no anti-smoke law. The shift manager had apparently been attacked by an anti at some time in the past. He carried this forward to my visit. Actions have consequences. The restaurant made the choice of which customer they want to keep. They can not appease tyrants, but have the right to try. If there are no smokers, vapers, then they'll move to something else, perhaps children or fat people? I'll exercise my economic vote here. Ideally we could leave customers alone unless there is actual harm?
Hi PC - don't disagree with your point at all an it also supports the managers decision. It was all about choosing who he should appease and given that there are many more non-smokers than vapers at the moment the only economical sensible decision for him to make was to ask you not to vape.
Even if you didn't see or hear someone complaining doesn't mean someone didn't make a comment to their server and there is also the risk to the manager that even if someone didn't comment at that time they would still decide not to frequent the establishment because it allowed smokers (their perception) and then might tell their ns friends and so on.
You have your right to choose to take your business elsewhere just as they have a right to determine the rules of conduct in their private enterprise so long as it does not impinge on someones civil rights and vaping is a choice not a right.
Earlier an example was posted about a restaurant banning kids under the age of 6. It will cost them business from 1 segment of the population but they are betting it will attract another and I have no issue with it. If I had young kids I would simply never go there even if dining without the kids if I had a problem with the policy. A similar example would be the many resorts that are adult only which I prefer to go to as I find it more relaxing at these places without having kids running around inadvertently kicking sand on me. I have yet to see anyone up in arms about the existence of these resorts or their no kids policies.
It is my sincere hope that you do find a restaurant in your area that you like which allows vaping as I see it as a victory for all of us.
Even if you didn't see or hear someone complaining doesn't mean someone didn't make a comment to their server and there is also the risk to the manager that even if someone didn't comment at that time they would still decide not to frequent the establishment because it allowed smokers (their perception) and then might tell their ns friends and so on.
You have your right to choose to take your business elsewhere just as they have a right to determine the rules of conduct in their private enterprise so long as it does not impinge on someones civil rights and vaping is a choice not a right.
Earlier an example was posted about a restaurant banning kids under the age of 6. It will cost them business from 1 segment of the population but they are betting it will attract another and I have no issue with it. If I had young kids I would simply never go there even if dining without the kids if I had a problem with the policy. A similar example would be the many resorts that are adult only which I prefer to go to as I find it more relaxing at these places without having kids running around inadvertently kicking sand on me. I have yet to see anyone up in arms about the existence of these resorts or their no kids policies.
It is my sincere hope that you do find a restaurant in your area that you like which allows vaping as I see it as a victory for all of us.
Well, we all have scattered opinions on this topic! Hah, cause see I believe the manager SHOULD have done the RIGHT thing not the thing that would appease the most people. Which the right thing is... let him vape and tell the others it isn't smoke and is not harmful. They don't like it to the point of leaving? Well they were obviously impossible to please people anyways, not even mentioning the fact that CLEARLY that is the right thing assuming vaping isn't banned in the state he was in at the time.
Just like banning children from the restaurant. Thats horrible in my opinion, ok so maybe some upscale ones but seriously? I don't have kids and I HATE it when they are unruly, but I wouldn't eat there on principle if they didn't allow children. It just seems wrong. Take a low tolerance on loud children and post a notice on the front door? Reasonable, banning outright? OK I feel as though a line has been crossed.
But hey it is interesting to read about all our ideas that are astonishingly different hah.
Yes there are quite a few rich quotes having to do with opinions. While I would love if everyone chose to do the right thing the manager is running a for profit business. It exists to service a public need and make a profit and usually doing the right thing takes a backseat to profits.
Last time I pulled my pv, a silver bullet, out at my favorite bar here in Missouri, an out of uniform officer asked me to step outside with him because he thought I had lit up some kind of strange ..... After a quick explanation and letting him take a toot on it, he was satisfied and we both went inside. He later came up to me and asked me where he could get one. I pointed him in the right direction. About a week later he came up to me in the same bar and pulled out a Yetti. The bartender looked at him strangely and passed him an ashtray. This time he did the explaining and got yet another person hooked on vaping. Electronic cigarettes can spread like wildfire if the right people advertise them.
Although not exactly on topic, I have 3 kids and I would love a restaurant that was adult only!! Sometimes a place to get away from kids that is not a bar would be welcomed! A place to sit and enjoy a meal without a kid kicking my booth or a baby crying....heaven! A very untapped market if you ask me! I'm married with kids and going to a bar doesn't really hold the same draw it did yrs ago, options are never a negative.
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I know thats the reality of things... but if morality takes a back seat to profits nobody wins.
I prefer to use common human decency over morality but this is exactly why the US and most of the world is so screwed up right now. Corporations have no moral base or empathy and therefore are not the same as people despite what SCOTUS says.
You can't smoke in any public establishment with the exception of casinos in Kansas City.
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