We don't allow anything that LOOKS like smoking.

[Doomed!]

I know thats the reality of things... but if morality takes a back seat to profits nobody wins.

Wait. So because the manager of this establishment was trying to appease the biggest portion of his customer base, he's amoral? He's just a guy trying to make a living and pay his bills by making decisions that are best for the business. If you were running a business, you'd probably want to make sure you make the largest amount of people happy at any given time.

We seem to forget sometimes that vaping is a privilege, not a god-given human right. Someone asking you to refrain from vaping in a certain area is not the same as being told to move to the back of the bus.

 

[Doomed!]

And if perception is reality, then vaping = smoking. Why? Because you're putting a stick in your mouth and blowing out a puffy cloud. It looks like you're smoking, so people will assume you are. Even if they recognize it as an e-cig, people don't know much about them. The question I get asked almost every time I talk to someone about my Icon is, "Aren't those things dangerous?" They think it's dangerous because the news tells them they are. Hell, even they're own government tells them that they're dangerous. So, when they see you vaping in public, they think that you can't use these e-cigarettes responsibly and that they should be legislated or banned. They see you as a potential danger to themselves and they're family and, at the very least, an inconsiderate jerk. And if perception is reality, they're right.

 

[wv2win]

And if perception is reality, then vaping = smoking. Why? Because you're putting a stick in your mouth and blowing out a puffy cloud. It looks like you're smoking, so people will assume you are. Even if they recognize it as an e-cig, people don't know much about them. The question I get asked almost every time I talk to someone about my Icon is, "Aren't those things dangerous?" They think it's dangerous because the news tells them they are. Hell, even they're own government tells them that they're dangerous. So, when they see you vaping in public, they think that you can't use these e-cigarettes responsibly and that they should be legislated or banned. They see you as a potential danger to themselves and they're family and, at the very least, an inconsiderate jerk. And if perception is reality, they're right.

And vapers who will only vape with smokers, refuse to educate themselves on the safety of vaping and refuse to publicly but respectfully vape in the open, just reconfirms what the uninformed .../u/me, that it is just as dangerous as smoking. That attitude by people who vape is a big part of the problem.

 

[user]

when it comes down to it, its all based on what the people who own the building want to allow you to do. just like restricting firearms in a place to only police officers.

 

[Elphaba13]

I think I just fell a little bit in love with you, Doomed!

 

[Doomed!]

And vapers who will only vape with smokers, refuse to educate themselves on the safety of vaping and refuse to publicly but respectfully vape in the open, just reconfirms what the uninformed .../u/me, that it is just as dangerous as smoking. That attitude by people who vape is a big part of the problem.

The public already thinks that vaping is just as dangerous as smoking. Vaping in public doesn't show them that it is less dangerous than smoking. They aren't going to see you doing it and assume it's safe. Come on, how many people do stupid, irresponsible things that put the public at risk? Like, a lot, right? Plus, why should they trust you when you say that it's not dangerous? You're just some guy.

The bottom line is that we don't know how dangerous vaping really is. Neither does the public. Neither does the FDA. We assume that it's safer, but no long term studies have been done to tell us that for certain. It's pretty hard to educate the public about misinformation from the FDA and the media when there is no science that conclusively shows how safe or unsafe vaping really is. If you want to make an impact and really help the cause, donate some time or money to CASAA. Take part in a study about vaping. Start a website dispelling the myths of e-cigs. Vaping in the grocery store won't do a thing to inform the public, it will only piss them off. And, god forbid, it will make them afraid for the safety of their children. And I would be willing to bet that for every one person you talk to and educate about e-cigs, there are 5 more that have been offended but don't want a confrontation. Those people are the ones that are going to write letters to their representatives. That's what we don't want.

Listen, I see where you're coming from. I really do. And I agree to a certain extent. Education is the key to keeping e-cigs legal. I just don't think that public vaping is the way to educate people.

 

[Doomed!]

I think I just fell a little bit in love with you, Doomed!

Wow. Just a little bit?

 

[Puffadder]

I think you may be my long lost evil twin brother

 

[wv2win]

The public already thinks that vaping is just as dangerous as smoking. Vaping in public doesn't show them that it is less dangerous than smoking. They aren't going to see you doing it and assume it's safe. Come on, how many people do stupid, irresponsible things that put the public at risk? Like, a lot, right? Plus, why should they trust you when you say that it's not dangerous? You're just some guy.

The bottom line is that we don't know how dangerous vaping really is. Neither does the public. Neither does the FDA. We assume that it's safer, but no long term studies have been done to tell us that for certain. It's pretty hard to educate the public about misinformation from the FDA and the media when there is no science that conclusively shows how safe or unsafe vaping really is. If you want to make an impact and really help the cause, donate some time or money to CASAA. Take part in a study about vaping. Start a website dispelling the myths of e-cigs. Vaping in the grocery store won't do a thing to inform the public, it will only piss them off. And, god forbid, it will make them afraid for the safety of their children. And I would be willing to bet that for every one person you talk to and educate about e-cigs, there are 5 more that have been offended but don't want a confrontation. Those people are the ones that are going to write letters to their representatives. That's what we don't want.

Listen, I see where you're coming from. I really do. And I agree to a certain extent. Education is the key to keeping e-cigs legal. I just don't think that public vaping is the way to educate people.

This attitude is the problem. You either have not read the studies that have been done, or you didn't understand what was reported. You have the exact same "tunnel vision" mind set that many of the uninformed anti-smoking zealots have. It looks similar to smoke so it must be just as dangerous. I am not against long term studies but with today's technology in chemical analysis, I do not need that to tell me what the current studies have concluded: there is nothing in the liquid or vapor that is harmful to those around a person who is vaping, period.

And you are wrong on your other point as well. I just got home from SAMS Club where I was vaping while shopping. I had two non-smokers stop me and ask about my Darwin. I of course demonstrated and briefly explained what it was and what it was NOT. They both had family members who smoked and wanted to learn more about PV's so they could get one for them. I carry a little hand out that I made up with ECF's address, 4 reputable supplier sites and brief recommendations on good starter kits and strength of eliquid. They even asked for my name and phone number if they have any more questions. This is the type of positive interaction that will slowly change perceptions and build a base of positive information about vaping to the uninformed.

And if you had look at the signature at the bottom of my posts, you would have realized that I AM A MEMBER OF CASAA!

 

[VapingRulz]

I think that this problem may solve itself once vapers become more numerous. Eventually there will be a smart business person who will see a niche - a vaping coffee shop, maybe - and rush to fill it. Assuming it's a successful venture, other smart business people will follow suit. It's all about profits.

 

[Puffadder]

I think the real key is to figure out who the politicians who smoke are. Get them vaping and it will be smooth sailing.

Except Obama that is...the R's would have them illegal in 5 min. just to spite him.

 

[PeacefulCloud]

Just ran into this issue in a Taco Bueno. We asked the manager if it would be okay to vape after our meal. There was literally no one else in the restaurant save my companion and myself. We were told that the corporate policy was no vaping because "it put something/nicotine into the air and that the other non-existent patrons would object. We politely left the restaurant. I would be interested if anyone else has had experience with Taco Bueno.

 

[wv2win]

I think the real key is to figure out who the politicians who smoke are. Get them vaping and it will be smooth sailing.

Except Obama that is...the R's would have them illegal in 5 min. just to spite him.

It was "R" judges appointed by an "R" President who saved our vaping rights by telling the FDA to back off. If it had been "D" judges, we would be breaking the law right now.

 

[wv2win]

Just ran into this issue in a Taco Bueno. We asked the manager if it would be okay to vape after our meal. There was literally no one else in the restaurant save my companion and myself. We were told that the corporate policy was no vaping because "it put something/nicotine into the air and that the other non-existent patrons would object. We politely left the restaurant. I would be interested if anyone else has had experience with Taco Bueno.

Never been there. But here is a suggestion. Next time, go into this restruant, order your food, when it arrives, ask the same question. If the answer is the same, leave then, right after they brought the food to the table.

 

[Elphaba13]

Don't be a ..... You still have to pay for your food.

 

[wv2win]

Don't be a ..... You still have to pay for your food.

I don't know anyone who would pay for something they didn't eat. Extreme - yes, but the response they received was pure BS, especially in an empty resturant.

 

[Elphaba13]

You order, they make. If there is nothing wrong with it you are legally obliged to pay.

Please stop speaking for the vaping community. You are NOT the community.

 

[wv2win]

You order, they make. If there is nothing wrong with it you are legally obliged to pay.

Please stop speaking for the vaping community. You are NOT the community.

And you can "stick" the attitude. I never said I was speaking for anyone so stop with your high and mighty BS.

 

[Elphaba13]

I give up.

 

[iball]

Over the years of traveling the world going to various places - some good, most bad - I've reached the following conclusions:

1) Trust no one, you live longer.

2) Other people suck.

3) It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission (notable exceptions: any country that has Islam as the official religion)

4) No one complains about what the man with the large automatic weapon is doing. (notable exceptions: North America and Europe)

5) Common sense is not so common. (particularly in Middle Eastern countries where insanity rules the day)

I don't like hanging out talking all the time in restaurants, I go in and eat, pay, then quickly leave the premises and then do what I want outside, or in my car, or in my home.
I don't like the whole "bar scene" in the U.S. at all, so I don't go to those places - and I avoid a veritable crap-ton of problems doing so.
Any state that doesn't recognize one of my many concealed-carry permits is not a state to spend any money in, so I never visit them and avoid a crap-ton of problems doing so. Such states also tend to like irrationally banning things at the drop of a hat too, such a Cali's ban on .50 CAL rifles, NJ's ban on hollow-point ammo, and Illinois' ban on anything that the Chicago Mayor and Chicago City Council don't like. I speak with my vote and my dollars.

I find statewide/citywide bans on "smoking" complete insanity and pretty much against the intent of the Constitution so I choose not to live in those psycho places.
I like to live in places where the property owner gets to decide what people visiting his or her place of business can do.