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What button top battery to replace AW IMR 18650 3.7v 2200mAh ?

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by cllmda, Oct 16, 2019.

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  1. Pigs

    Pigs Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    Thanks for all your work on our behalf! Very important.

    I've heard you talk about rotating and using batteries before and that's why it's my routine -cycle through the VTC5as (or the Vapecell 2800mah) in my mechs and the Samsung 25Rs in my regulated mods. I use them all and never let them sit in cases. It's a bit OCD but they're numbered and they all get a turn!
     
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  2. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    I purchased one of these, but with a flattop. The battery seems to work fine. The only problem is that orbtronic is just a rewrapped battery from one of the larger manufacturers. They also add protection to some. The huge problem I have with them is there are no cell manufacturers that make a call with those ultra high specs. When I asked them, they have me a run-around, but would not tell me who makes the cell. So in truth, we have absolutely no idea of what the true capacity is.
     
  3. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    I happen to agree with you. At one time, Orbtronic actually would tell you on their product page what cell they were re-wrapping, usually a Panasonic or Sony VTC cell. But I've noticed in the last couple of years they have gotten away from doing that.

    Having said that, there are a few ECF members here that swear by their button-top Orbtronic batteries. If they use them in their Provari's then all they really need is a 10 amp cdr battery, so no harm done. So unless you are a low wattage, high ohm, tootle puffer I would avoid buying batteries from Orbtronic.
     
  4. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    I spent the money and have them so I use them, but only with my tank atty at 80w which is an approx 13 cdr.
     
  5. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    :danger:
    You are misinformed. 80 watts requires at least a 30 amp cdr battery.

    WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
    (Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)


    Up to 45W:
    Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR [​IMG]

    Up to 60W:
    LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR [​IMG]
    LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR [​IMG]

    Up to 75W:
    LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR [​IMG]
    LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Molicel 18650-P26A, 2600 mah 25 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Up to 90W:
    LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR [​IMG]
    LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR [​IMG]
    LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR [​IMG]
    Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR [​IMG]
     
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  6. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    It's a dual cell mod. I did not mention that. I thought sony, vtc4 was a 30 cdr? That comes from the manufacturer.
     
  7. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Genuine Sony VTC4 tested only 23 amps cdr by Battery Mooch. So using two VTC4's would give you 120 watts. (60 watts X2) :)

    Sony VTC4 2000mAh 18650 Retest Results...a great 23A 2100mAh battery

    Sony VTC4 2000mAh "use only in packs" 18650 Test Results...identical to other genuine VTC4's


    Complete list and links for all my battery and charger tests

    Batteries used in a two battery mod should be new batteries "married" to each other for life. Same model, same manufacturer, same specs, same age.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    80W
    Yes, Sony rates it at 30A. But it runs hotter than other batteries at their rating so I rate it at 23A to allow direct comparison of different batteries.

    Batteries are typically rated for their expected use. The VTC4 was probably rated for power tool and other non-continuous use. Other batteries are rated for true continuous use. As a standard, that’s how I rate batteries as it helps prevent problems in case of an auto fire situation, malfunctioning device, or accidental mech mod button pressing.
     
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  9. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    How is the temperature take? Because when I pull the batteries out directly after a good amount of use they are nearly warm to the touch.
     
  10. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    3120mah cells would have a CDR below 15a, best to consider them at best 10a CDR.

    10a CDR cells are good up to 30w per cell, so using two maybe 60ish w maximum.

    At 80w, using a 2 10a CDR cells in a regulated power device is pushing the cells.

    By the time the external cell temp rises to a point where a person can feel heat / hot, the internal cell temp is much higher.

    Heat is a warning sign, warm is okay, hot is not.

    Best to use cells with the appropriate CDR for the amp draw / power demand.
    It is beyond silly to use and push insufficient CDR cells to or past their limits and attempt to judge safety on how an individual defines warm, really warm, hot and too hot by their sense of feel/touch.

    Use appropriate CDR cells for the application.
     
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  11. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Mooch has a home lab full of technical equipment to test batteries for safety and performance. The temperature on the surface of a misused/abused battery could be far different than the temperature on the inside.

     
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  12. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    How do I measure temperature?
    I use a Fluke 52 II digital thermometer and type-k thermocouples, taped directly to the metal can of the battery during my testing.

    Anything over 40°C-45°C starts aging the battery faster. This barely feels warm through a battery wrap. If the battery feels more than a bit warm, it’s too hot.
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    @Eric Superczynski We should also probably add that these batteries were never meant to be used as a stand alone product outside of a battery pack with a battery management system (BMS). The manufacturer intended them to be used only in a battery pack.

    [​IMG]battery pack with BMS
    Sony considers using their batteries in a vaping device to be misuse of their product.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    I dont judge the temperature of the cell just by toughing I'm just saying after use they are just barley warm. I'm talking about the dual vtc4's at 120w. The orbtronic don't have any warmth when using them at 80w. But I will pick up a few better suited cells for my applications.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I recently tossed my last AW button top 18650 that was used years ago in my Provari V2. I popped it into my Opus charger and did a quick resistance test that showed 136 milliohms. That cell was purchased around 2011, so it's significantly aged anyway. The Opus quick test yields a relative reading that isn't nearly as accurate as Mooch's testing, but it's a ballpark indicator. New cells in the Opus usually read 30 Milliohms or less.
     
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