What has been your doctor's reaction?

[Racehorse]

^^^ and writing a grant to finance "Request for Comments" / Questionairres to be sent out to practicing PCPs and MDs, about their patients' experience with ecigs would be a very good project to undertake.

Again, all I hear is defeatist whining and this idea that "everyone is against us" and it's really not going to accomplish anything except more grousing on the internet.

Send out some surveys. Ask questions. Provide self addressed stamped return envelopes or an online survey, that only licensed MDs can access, and well designed so that they can complete easily and in a way that won't consume their time. Raise the money to accomplish this.

It sounds like some of you think MDs who are busy with practice should be taking time out of their day to post on ecig forums (if they even knew about them). Well maybe some would. What vehicle has been put in place to invite them to do so? How many invitations and links to forums have been sent out?

I guess I'm used to doing a whole lot of work for the advocacies in which I am involved. It is very time consuming. Instead of raising money for homeless and injured wildlife with benefits and grants, I guess the people in my group could just be writing Letters to the Editor in our local papers, whining about "how nobody in our community cares about homeless raccoons and baby bobcats who have been victims of the logging industry here."

Yeah, that oughta do it.

I guess I really don't "get" some of the complaints here, because there doesnt' seem to be any actual follow-up taking place in an attempt to cure the nature of the complaints. Action is required.

sorry, not disagreeing that things could be better, just saying that action seems to be missing in many cases and replaced by complaining and finger pointing.

So, doctors are only interested in money. Got it. I guess that means just give up, why bother, right?

My experience is that when you imagine everyone is the enemy....they become just that.

 

[DC2]

Because it doesn't put money in their pockets.

Actually, I think it is more a matter of insurance and liability.
And a matter of how the medical landscape is currently designed with respect to being sued.

A doctor would have to be very certain that vaping is safe to be able to recommend it.

Because if a doctor is not certain, then he might feel he risks going against the accepted medical opinion...
Standard of care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if a doctor goes against the Standard of Care and gets sued, they will lose.

 

[AndriaD]

Actually, I think it is more a matter of insurance and liability.
And a matter of how the medical landscape is currently designed with respect to being sued.

A doctor would have to be very certain that vaping is safe to be able to recommend it.

Because if a doctor is not certain, then he might feel he risks going against the accepted medical opinion...
Standard of care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if a doctor goes against the Standard of Care and gets sued, they will lose.

I think that's exactly right; my doc, after I asked about the Nicotrol inhaler, said he couldn't, by law, prescribe it to me, because I have asthma.

However, he did support my own idea of trying e-cigs, which I guess currently falls into the same realm as OTC nutritional supplements -- if the patient brings it up, a doc could either support or discourage it, but could not "prescribe" it, and maybe couldn't even suggest it if the patient didn't bring it up first -- because of liability constraints.

I think a lot of it might also be up to the doc's own enlightenment, knowledge of the patient, and understanding if a patient is completely unwilling to give any further money or time to the pharmaceutical snake-oil, because of previous failures. At some point, recommending stuff that a doc knows the patient won't do is just a complete waste of consultation time. My own doc, who's been treating me for my asthma for nearly 20 yrs, has done nothing for the last 15 yrs except ask if I still smoked, how much, make a note of it in my record, and then recommend that I try to quit or at least cut down, because he knows that badgering me about it is a waste of his time, and given that my lungs always sounded completely clear (thanks to a few pre-emptive inhaler huffs in the parking lot before going in!), not really that big a deal.

Andria

 

[Racehorse]

Thanks DC2 and Andria.

My point is I bust a vein when we make everyone the enemy, for goodness sakes, there are plenty of GREAT doctors out there, I know, I have a few, and if anything, we need to get them on our side, not be roasting them on a spit!

Likewise, every single person in the fda, etc. cannot be "bad guy". Heck, I've read Margaret Hamburg's resume many times, she supported needle exchange programs, she supported all those family planning programs under a politcal system that was NOT at all friendly to these things, in the least, at the time. SO it's not like she is totally unfamiliar with under-dog initiatives.

I just have never felt,, and never will, that (most) people are black and white, all good, or all bad, anyway. That is just not my worldview.

I have also found that you have to help people help you, they have to want to help you. You don't do that by making them the enemy. It takes time, and communicating, and sometimes all the data you need to convince someone of something is just not available YET.

But if you burn bridges with people...... when the pieces do come together, you are SOL.

I know there are a lot of obstacles but I think it is prudent to always try be even-keeled. Much of these things will be solved in courts of law, and in laboratories, down the road. And as ecigs become more used and customary. And I still believe NJOY and the big $$ in ecig land will do the heavy lifting on the legal side....because they and TW and the like already have. The politicos get in line after that.

Making everyone except vapers the enemy just isn't the way to go though. Other than the out-n-out clearly identified ANTZ should be kept as potential friendlies.

So, I inlcude most doctors as POTENTIAL friendlies. I know mine is.

JMHO.

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks DC2 and Andria.

My point is I bust a vein when we make everyone the enemy, for goodness sakes, there are plenty of GREAT doctors out there, I know, I have a few, and if anything, we need to get them on our side, not be roasting them on a spit!

Likewise, every single person in the fda, etc. cannot be "bad guy". Heck, I've read Margaret Hamburg's resume many times, she supported needle exchange programs, she supported all those family planning programs under a politcal system that was NOT at all friendly to these things, in the least, at the time. SO it's not like she is totally unfamiliar with under-dog initiatives.

I just have never felt,, and never will, that (most) people are black and white, all good, or all bad, anyway. That is just not my worldview.

I have also found that you have to help people help you, they have to want to help you. You don't do that by making them the enemy. It takes time, and communicating, and sometimes all the data you need to convince someone of something is just not available YET.

But if you burn bridges with people...... when the pieces do come together, you are SOL.

I know there are a lot of obstacles but I think it is prudent to always try be even-keeled. Much of these things will be solved in courts of law, and in laboratories, down the road. And as ecigs become more used and customary. And I still believe NJOY and the big $$ in ecig land will do the heavy lifting on the legal side....because they and TW and the like already have. The politicos get in line after that.

Making everyone except vapers the enemy just isn't the way to go though. Other than the out-n-out clearly identified ANTZ should be kept as potential friendlies.

So, I inlcude most doctors as POTENTIAL friendlies. I know mine is.

JMHO.

One of the best lessons of maturity, I've found, is that it's almost never a good idea to burn bridges. Because someday you might want to cross them again -- or allow someone to cross them to you. I think this goes right along with that no clear-cut black/white -- there are ALWAYS shades of gray. And actually that seems to be the idea that the ANTZ just can't wrap their tiny minds around, that no, e-cigs may NOT be 100% safe for 100% of everybody... but for those who desperately need to get free of SMOKE, they're 99% safer than to keep smoking. It's a shade of gray, rather than the pure black of smoking, or pure white of total abstention. They don't seem to have the intellectual ability to comprehend that any shade of gray is better than pure black -- for them it's gotta be pure white, or why don't you just go ahead and die. It's a sign of intellectual dullness, emotional immaturity, and inability to comprehend that their way is NOT the only way.

Andria

 

[Bernard Marx]

Re the OP: I don't know why I would tell my doctor I vape. As far as I can determine it is not harmful so I don't need any guidance or advice.

 

[CooleyBird]

My Dr. has been after me to quit smoking for years, and I got a "Good for you" at my last checkup. He is of the same opinion as I that vaping probably isn't "good for you", but has got to be better than burning chemically treated leaves and paper.

 

[Bernard Marx]

Maybe it is good for you. Maybe it washes your lungs.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Bizarre. I'd be more concerned with the 18 litres of Starbucks I consume on a daily basis, lol.

18 liters of Starbucks a day! I can only dream it!

Unless your dentist is referring to "sweet chemicals" that have sugar in them, that seems a bit absurd.

+1, I can't quite get my head around that. People consume a ton of sugar on a daily basis. Sugary drinks, coffees, junk. Why would vapor, which dissipates do any more damage than a sugary drink?

VG is used as a sweetener, primarily for diabetics. I am sure the dentist thinks it rots teeth as a result of it being a sweetener however, at least one website I visited says that it isn't like sugar in that it doesn't rot teeth.

 

[StandingOnTheMoon]

Not sure, because I haven't been sick in the year and a half since I quit smoking My dentist raves about the benefits though.

 

[Racehorse]

actually that seems to be the idea that the ANTZ just can't wrap their tiny minds around, that no, e-cigs may NOT be 100% safe for 100% of everybody... but for those who desperately need to get free of SMOKE, they're 99% safer than to keep smoking. It's a shade of gray, rather than the pure black of smoking, or pure white of total abstention.

All "abstinence" types have that kind of mindset. Doesnt' matter if it's smoking or _________.

Not going to win with them, don't even bother.........and why I suggest courting other potential friendlies.

 

[AndriaD]

All "abstinence" types have that kind of mindset. Doesnt' matter if it's smoking or _________.

Not going to win with them, don't even bother.........and why I suggest courting other potential friendlies.

I just don't get that mindset, the puritan types -- dead sure that someone somewhere is enjoying themselves and that MUST STOP! I've had to come to grips with abstention from alcohol, since total abstention is the only way to deal with alcoholism, and it's never been a picnic, though it has certainly gotten easier with practice. It makes me an "odd man out" in a lot of situations, and I've had to deal with that too -- kind but uninformed people saying things to me like "one won't hurt you, will it?" Well no, but the 11 that follow it certainly will.

And I agree; I think there's a huge group of potential friendlies out there, because even if smoking is getting rarer, a lot people maybe have a friend or family member who still smokes, and could benefit hugely from e-cigs, as all the rest of us are. Really that's why I favor vaping openly in public, but without being a nuisance about it -- if people see it, great; if you're outdoors, they really won't even smell it unless they make a real effort. I have mixed feelings about public indoor vaping; I think it's situational. But I'd say the vast majority don't really give a hoot either way.

Andria

 

[The Torch]

My GP congratulated me on quitting and still changed my status to non-smoker after I told him I quit thanks to vaping.

I just met a nurse, thanks to an online dating site, and she was all for it. We'll meet again. I didn't vape in front of her today, but next time I'll have to if I want her to get used to it.

I think the elephant in this room (or this thread) is not so much whether or not doctors "approve" of vaping...
It is more a question of why they have not been more "publicly" vocal in their support.

A few ideas:
-Lack of long-term data.
-Liability issues.
-Mixed feelings through the medical community.
-The medical industry is still not approving it and doctors could risk having their practicing license being questioned or removed.
-Err on the side of caution.
-Too few patients are declaring their vaping habit, not making it an issue for the small GP's yet.

I'm sure it is being mentioned in major meets, but no conclusion has been reached yet.

Interesting.

I wonder if genetics comes into play. I've been vaping for 2 years now and still haven't had a single cavity. Which again might have something to do with genetics, it's probably almost unheard of to be 53 and never had a cavity. Hubby keeps waiting for me to come back from a dental appointment and hear that I have finally gotten one..... Hopefully that will never happen

I was told by a friend that never brushed her teeth and still did not have cavities that her dentist said she must have strong saliva. The enzymes in saliva apparently can kill cavity causing bacteria. That's definitely a genetic trait...

 

[Racehorse]

I've had to come to grips with abstention from alcohol, since total abstention is the only way to deal with alcoholism, and it's never been a picnic, though it has certainly gotten easier with practice. It makes me an "odd man out" in a lot of situations, and I've had to deal with that too -- kind but uninformed people saying things to me like "one won't hurt you, will it?" Well no, but the 11 that follow it certainly will.

Quite an accomplishment you have there. Bravo! I'm sure it's not even close to easy.

And I agree; I think there's a huge group of potential friendlies out there, because even if smoking is getting rarer, a lot people maybe have a friend or family member who still smokes, and could benefit hugely from e-cigs, as all the rest of us are. Really that's why I favor vaping openly in public, but without being a nuisance about it -- if people see it, great; if you're outdoors, they really won't even smell it unless they make a real effort. I have mixed feelings about public indoor vaping; I think it's situational. But I'd say the vast majority don't really give a hoot either way.

Andria

I haven't run into anybody in 2 years in my region who seem to care whether I vape or not. It doesn't even seem to be an issue on anyone's radar.

I guess it may be in large metro areas where there are a lot o' vape stores, lounges, etc.

I was told by a friend that never brushed her teeth and still did not have cavities that her dentist said she must have strong saliva. The enzymes in saliva apparently can kill cavity causing bacteria. That's definitely a genetic trait...

I have a friend I've known for 30 years, she drinks coca cola all day long, never water, and has gooey cinnamon rolls and pop tarts for breakfast. She is 61 and has a perfect figure, a real head-turner....and has never had even 1 cavity in her entire life.

I think as the human genome project advances, we will indeed see just how much everything is genetically oriented.

 

[Lovebug6737]

Saw my Doctor about 5 days after I started vaping and I brought it up because I was curious about her opinion. She was so happy for me and very proud. She even gave me a script for cough medicine so I could sleep better at night. The next time I go I plan on telling her to give my info out to other patients who seem receptive to try vaping.

 

[Bassnorma]

So last week my ex-hub went to the doctor and the doc told him to switch to e-cigarettes because they are safer...LOL

 

[Rotowoman]

I saw my doctor today as a matter of fact. I told him I had stopped smoking and was now vaping. I could tell he wanted to ask me more questions, but we just didn't have the time. He was very pleased that I wasn't smoking cigarettes anymore.

 

[Cliven]

My Doc still calls it smoking. He says that there is still the nic. addiction so therefore, I'm smoking.

ummm....Okay.

However, he is happy that I have cut my nic. intake.

Probably a few more months and I think I'll be done with vaping anyway.

 

[sub4me]

Racehorse, I really enjoy reading your posts and I like your no nonsense attitude. There's so much propaganda spread around these boards and the internet that it gets ridiculous sometimes. There's this mindset that everyone hates vapors or smokers that I just don't find true.I also see that there's a widespread thought that vapors are somehow a separate group that everyone is against. It would appear that one needs to believe everything positive about vaping is truth, and anything that is said bad about it should be ignored or regarded as lies. I think a lot of people have really gotten carried away with the us against them thing. I do realize people enjoy vaping and people vape for many reasons but the whole I need to fight all day long against everyone in the name of vaping is just crazy and becomes abit fanatical.

 

[LMS62]

Racehorse, I really enjoy reading your posts and I like your no nonsense attitude. There's so much propaganda spread around these boards and the internet that it gets ridiculous sometimes. There's this mindset that everyone hates vapors or smokers that I just don't find true.I also see that there's a widespread thought that vapors are somehow a separate group that everyone is against. It would appear that one needs to believe everything positive about vaping is truth, and anything that is said bad about it should be ignored or regarded as lies. I think a lot of people have really gotten carried away with the us against them thing. I do realize people enjoy vaping and people vape for many reasons but the whole I need to fight all day long against everyone in the name of vaping is just crazy and becomes abit fanatical.

This is one of the best posts I have read in a while. The problem is, it is so reasonable, it might just scare a few folks.