What is the point of subohming if you're not using a mech?

[Vapey_McVape]

Very confused at why everyone goes "but bro you need to subohm like bro its the best!!!"

From my understanding on a vv/vw device surface area is king.

Why would I want to build a lower ohm coil, which in turn is less surface area... I was in a b&m earlier today and the guy was really nice but when I told him that the build I was using right now was 24ga 1.8ohm he seemed outright baffled and went on and on about subohm.. Is there something I'm missing? In my brain, more surface area = more flavor = more vapor.

 

[KenD]

No good reason really, except if you prefer to use thicker wire and don't want to do too many wraps (as thicker wire can be easier to work with). Otherwise the drawbacks are easily more plentiful.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Vapey, when we smoked, we had very little in the way of choices. With vaping, well, its a big world and many directions to go. This forum has a lot of enthusiasts who push the envelop or just try new things in experimentation.

Go where you want to go and have a happy vape!

 

[Vapey_McVape]

No good reason really, except if you prefer to use thicker wire and don't want to do too many wraps (as thicker wire can be easier to work with). Otherwise the drawbacks are easily more plentiful.

How thick tho? Maybe I'll try my hand at some 22g and see how it works, because this 1.8 24g in my lemo is working beautifully.

Vapey, when we smoked, we had very little in the way of choices. With vaping, well, its a big world and many directions to go. This forum has a lot of enthusiasts who push the envelop or just try new things in experimentation.

Go where you want to go and have a happy vape!

Nah totally, however from a performance stand point it however doesn't make much sense to me at all on a vv/vw.

 

[KenD]

How thick tho? Maybe I'll try my hand at some 22g and see how it works, because this 1.8 24g in my lemo is working beautifully.





Nah totally, however from a performance stand point it however doesn't make much sense to me at all on a vv/vw.

Do you actually have a 1.8 ohm coil out of 24 ga wire!? What's your coil diameter? The length of wire for that resistance (single coil) is over 25 cm/10 inches so that should be a huge coil. How can you fit it in the lemo?

 

[roxynoodle]

Exactly. Some of these decks don't have much room. The Silverplay has huge post holes so I couldn't get 28g wire to work well. 9 wraps each of 26g were the biggest coils I could fit on the deck. 0.5 ohm total resistance. I am vaping it on a mech, but wouldn't think anything of running it regulated.

 

[Vapey_McVape]

Do you actually have a 1.8 ohm coil out of 24 ga wire!? What's your coil diameter? The length of wire for that resistance (single coil) is over 25 cm/10 inches so that should be a huge coil. How can you fit it in the lemo?

The stock lemo coil for size comparison on top, the new coil installed.
Edit: 5mm diameter.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Very confused at why everyone goes "but bro you need to subohm like bro its the best!!!"
.

Lmao
Who are you hanging around with?

 

[Vapey_McVape]

Lmao
Who are you hanging around with?

It's generally most times I enter a b&m and sometimes when I'm on campus with other people vaping.

 

[ignotus]

That's a big coil...how many wraps?

 

[Vapey_McVape]

That's a big coil...how many wraps?

12 wraps

Definitely a large coil but it fit in the Lemo fine, largest build I think that I could possibly fit in it tbh.

 

[Zod]

After a ton of experimentation myself with different styles/gauges/diameters/materials/number of coils my findings are that, yes, surface area is king in not only flavor, but vapor production. It's not the end-all of course, but it's a solid baseline.

The point is to get that surface area to a preferred temperature. If you're rocking a huge single coil there's a limit to how many volts a regulated mod can produce to try and achieve your preferred wattage. They can step up some but there's a limit to it. My Sigelei tops out at 7.5 volts trying to push a 1.2 ohm Subtank head beyond 45 watts. Any increase in requested wattage is not met when you hit that button. The Sig doesn't produce more volts than the batteries can produce stacked. This is where sub ohming is necessary via multiple coils. I prefer this route to wrapping stupid low 0.1- ohm builds and roll the dice on a single 18650 mech mod pushing the battery to it's limits. Regulated is simply safer.

Try not to classify "subohming" as "OMG CLOWDZ BRO! IF YOU AINT SUBBIN' YOU AINT VAPIN!!!1" It's also a very useful tool for flavor chasers like me.Wrap up 4 coils the size of a typical .7 or .8, bring the wattage up and essentially you're using 2 conservative RDA builds. Same flavor and temperature, but twice the vapor. Rock it in an RDA with huge air holes feeding them and you can get the same vapor, temperature, and flavor in 1-1.5 seconds vs a 3-4 second hit.

Not all sub-ohmers are obnoxious roidheads that only care about ridiculously huge clouds with little to no flavor. Some of us want our gear to perform like 2 protanks.

Think of mechs as more manual mode, and regs as more automatics. Not mechs meaning SUBOHMBRO and regs as "I don't get the dangerous subohm craze"

 

[Vapey_McVape]

^Good explanation. Yea on average my hits avg around the 3sec mark with the coil I posted.

 

[duc916]

If you're rocking a huge single coil there's a limit to how many volts a regulated mod can produce to try and achieve your preferred wattage.

The amount of voltage a mod puts out has nothing to do with how much surface area the load has. It only looks at its resistance. An ohm is an ohm whether it's a square mm or a square inch. The mod doesn't care how big it is. Both will receive the same amount of voltage. That's how Ohm's law works. V is the square root of P * R. There's no surface area in that equation.

That said, with the huge surface area of that coil, it will take much longer to ramp up and down because of all that extra mass. I think it'd be better to split them into two separate coils that will ramp much faster, AND be more thoroughly covered by the air intake to reduce gunking.

I did a dual-parallel kayfun build a while back that had great flavor (for a kayfun anyway). Maybe you could try something like this.

 

[Cullin Kin]

The stock lemo coil for size comparison on top, the new coil installed.
Edit: 5mm diameter.

That's probably one of the more crazy coils I've seen... Good on ya for finding something that works for you (the key to vaping).

 

[WharfRat1976]

Very confused at why everyone goes "but bro you need to subohm like bro its the best!!!"

From my understanding on a vv/vw device surface area is king.

Why would I want to build a lower ohm coil, which in turn is less surface area... I was in a b&m earlier today and the guy was really nice but when I told him that the build I was using right now was 24ga 1.8ohm he seemed outright baffled and went on and on about subohm.. Is there something I'm missing? In my brain, more surface area = more flavor = more vapor.

Yes better flavor richer vapor in my opinion. Quicker heat up as well. I like my mechs.

 

[Susan~S]

Many of the mech mod vapers at the B&M's are not experienced/educated with using high vv/vw mods.

The beauty of a high vv/vw mod is that you don't have to build low sub-ohm coils to get a great vape. In fact, building low sub-ohm works against you. Higher ohm coils use more wire which means more surface area to vaporize juice. This increases both heat and vapor production.

With a mechanical mod you increase the warmth of your coil by building lower ohm coils. However, the electronics in a regulated mod boosts the power coming from the battery so the ohms of the coil no longer control the warmth.

Here's a good thread on the subject: My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...

Also check out State-O-Flux's blog on the "Steam Engine": Steam Engine: From Basic Use to Advanced Features

 

[Soignee]

Many of the mech mod vapers at the B&M's are not experienced/educated with using high vv/vw mods.

The beauty of a high vv/vw mod is that you don't have to build low sub-ohm coils to get a great vape. In fact, building low sub-ohm works against you. Higher ohm coils use more wire which means more surface area to vaporize juice. This increases both heat and vapor production.

With a mechanical mod you increase the warmth of your coil by building lower ohm coils. However, the electronics in a regulated mod boosts the power coming from the battery so the ohms of the coil no longer control the warmth.

Here's a good thread on the subject: My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...

Also check out State-O-Flux's blog on the "Steam Engine": Steam Engine: From Basic Use to Advanced Features

That's an awesome post Susan~S!

Your links are on point! Thanks

 

[inspects]

Susan is, very Helpful............

..........................

 

[JeremyR]

There really is no reason to. There are some subtleties with heavy gauge Sub ohm. But I can push similar clouds as many subohms with parallel 32g at 1.3.

What's baffling is 1.8ohm of 24g. That wire is massive you need a lot of power to heat it quickly and get it to run hot. 80-100w I guess would do it.

Check out this program, you can see what different coils do for heat and heat up time.
http://www.steam-engine.org/

Its a combination of the mass of wire and power it takes to heat it to temp efficiently. With the thick wire and all those wraps its a lot of metal to heat up. You have a heat capacity of 169 MJ-k¹ where as the two I mentioned are 14-19 mjk¹. Mine at 30w have a heat flux of 400mw/mm². Yours at 30w is 76, 100w is 245.


Currently I use 1.3 ohm of 28g single coil at 30w 400mw/mm² of heat and I can blow a very respectable cloud with only a 1.6 - 2 second vape.