What should I do about shop selling dangerous equipment w/ no guidance?

[Racehorse]

From what I have seen, tobacco stores make the best B&Ms, rather than dedicated vape shops...

Actually, that is all we have in my tiny town of 5,000 people. It's a tobacco superstore, and one whole section of the store is now for vaping stuff.

But this incessant need to "be cool" and have high end hobbyist stuff has really overtaken the whole mission of just getting people off cigarettes. I mean, that is all I really ever wanted to do the very first time I paid it forward and turned a newbie on to vaping, like people here helping me did.

It's about saving lives and providing an alternative to smoking, not about being vapefamous, cool, or sporting the latest/greatest mod.

Just seems to me that over the years I've been on this forum, things are moving in the latter direction instead of the former.

When I first came on here everybody's goal was to help me get off cigs. Everyone who helped me in new members was pretty much on THAT page. Many also seemed to feel that just getting started was important, that one extra day on the cigs could be the one that catapulted me into lung disease, etc. Ego twists had JUST hit the shelves, and I got 2 of those, a smoketek carto tank and some cartos. And also 2 clearomizers and some Halo ejuice, all from one place Vapor Kings in OK which was close to me and it came quickly.

I could BARELY handle figuring out that stuff.

Yet I constantly see new members being told to buy RDAs and mechanical mods. Believe me, unless they are fiddlers and know something about electronics and gadgets, a newbie is NOT going to be up to speed on that kind of gear. And then they are told to read read read to get "up to speed." To me, each day spent reading is a day they are still on cigarettes. How about they just get a spinner type battery and a clearo tank WHILE they spend the next month reading?

They certainly don't *need* a 40watt mod to start out with. A spinner type ego battery will always and forever be a GREAT BACKUP, even when you have moved on to other stuff. Your gear goes belly up, that spinner twist ego battery and a simple clearo is gonna be the lifesaver that may determine whether you go buy a pack of cigs or not.

Just because the stuff is "available" doesn't mean it is the best thing to start out with. As a matter of fact, for many people, it will be over-kill. I'm 3 years in and I still have zero need for a 40watt mod.

 

[Racehorse]

Well, considering that B&M's, in general, are selling things 50-100% over the price we can pay on the internet, and considering that the average shop has a far more limited selection than we can easily find on the internet, that doesn't leave much added value for the cost paid, unless paying double is worth the instant gratification.

There were 2 times I was instantly thankful for a B&M in town. I desperately needed to buy something I could not wait for mail order to deliver. (one time was helping a newbie and I didn't have exactly what I wanted to give them to start vaping, so I stopped into the B&M and bought what I thought they would need before going to their house with "start vaping" kit. )

The other thing is that having developed a great relationship with the guy at that B&M, I got to try out a lot of stuff before buying, got to hold in my hand, and also, when he got something new sometimes he would gift me some eliqiud samples or a new clearo. To me everything is about relationships, loyalty, etc. I guess that is why I never bought from Fasttech. I love personalized service and I am on "email basis" with a few vendors I have stuck with for 3+ years online as well.......and my questions or needs get answered very IMMEDIATELY and they have bent over backwards for me. Can't put a price on that.

 

[stevegmu]

Actually, that is all we have in my tiny town of 5,000 people. It's a tobacco superstore, and one whole section of the store is now for vaping stuff.

But this incessant need to "be cool" and have high end hobbyist stuff has really overtaken the whole mission of just getting people off cigarettes. I mean, that is all I really ever wanted to do the very first time I paid it forward and turned a newbie on to vaping, like people here helping me did.

It's about saving lives and providing an alternative to smoking, not about being vapefamous, cool, or sporting the latest/greatest mod.

Just seems to me that over the years I've been on this forum, things are moving in the latter direction instead of the former.

When I first came on here everybody's goal was to help me get off cigs. Everyone who helped me in new members was pretty much on THAT page. Many also seemed to feel that just getting started was important, that one extra day on the cigs could be the one that catapulted me into lung disease, etc. Ego twists had JUST hit the shelves, and I got 2 of those, a smoketek carto tank and some cartos. And also 2 clearomizers and some Halo ejuice, all from one place Vapor Kings in OK which was close to me and it came quickly.

I could BARELY handle figuring out that stuff.

Yet I constantly see new members being told to buy RDAs and mechanical mods. Believe me, unless they are fiddlers and know something about electronics and gadgets, a newbie is NOT going to be up to speed on that kind of gear. And then they are told to read read read to get "up to speed." To me, each day spent reading is a day they are still on cigarettes. How about they just get a spinner type battery and a clearo tank WHILE they spend the next month reading?

They certainly don't *need* a 40watt mod to start out with. A spinner type ego battery will always and forever be a GREAT BACKUP, even when you have moved on to other stuff. Your gear goes belly up, that spinner twist ego battery and a simple clearo is gonna be the lifesaver that may determine whether you go buy a pack of cigs or not.

Just because the stuff is "available" doesn't mean it is the best thing to start out with. As a matter of fact, for many people, it will be over-kill. I'm 3 years in and I still have zero need for a 40watt mod.

Yeah, I would have given up starting with a RDA. I don't even use my Kayfuns now, unless I am in Prague and my vape shop owner buddy is in town to set them up with coils and Alpaca wicks... My friend won't even sell a new vaper a high power mod, let alone a mech. He will set them up with something like an iStick 20 and clearo or RTA, but they come back to the shop to have him make them 1.5-2ohm coils and wicks. He doesn't build below 1ohm for anyone. He's not out to make 1 sale- he gets customers who keep coming back...

On here they keep saying new vapers should get a future proof system, but the gear they are buying would be lucky to last a few months...

 

[VNeil]

Actually, that is all we have in my tiny town of 5,000 people. It's a tobacco superstore, and one whole section of the store is now for vaping stuff.

But this incessant need to "be cool" and have high end hobbyist stuff has really overtaken the whole mission of just getting people off cigarettes. I mean, that is all I really ever wanted to do the very first time I paid it forward and turned a newbie on to vaping, like people here helping me did.

It's about saving lives and providing an alternative to smoking, not about being vapefamous, cool, or sporting the latest/greatest mod.

Just seems to me that over the years I've been on this forum, things are moving in the latter direction instead of the former.

When I first came on here everybody's goal was to help me get off cigs. Everyone who helped me in new members was pretty much on THAT page. Many also seemed to feel that just getting started was important, that one extra day on the cigs could be the one that catapulted me into lung disease, etc. Ego twists had JUST hit the shelves, and I got 2 of those, a smoketek carto tank and some cartos. And also 2 clearomizers and some Halo ejuice, all from one place Vapor Kings in OK which was close to me and it came quickly.

I could BARELY handle figuring out that stuff.

Yet I constantly see new members being told to buy RDAs and mechanical mods. Believe me, unless they are fiddlers and know something about electronics and gadgets, a newbie is NOT going to be up to speed on that kind of gear. And then they are told to read read read to get "up to speed." To me, each day spent reading is a day they are still on cigarettes. How about they just get a spinner type battery and a clearo tank WHILE they spend the next month reading?

They certainly don't *need* a 40watt mod to start out with. A spinner type ego battery will always and forever be a GREAT BACKUP, even when you have moved on to other stuff. Your gear goes belly up, that spinner twist ego battery and a simple clearo is gonna be the lifesaver that may determine whether you go buy a pack of cigs or not.

Just because the stuff is "available" doesn't mean it is the best thing to start out with. As a matter of fact, for many people, it will be over-kill. I'm 3 years in and I still have zero need for a 40watt mod.

I read a couple of newbie posts a day, and I do NOT agree with your assessment. I never like to say never, and I'm sure every now and then someone suggests a newbie buy a mech and an RDA, but if it happens it is very rare here.

What I do see is a lot of people (myself included) rethinking the wisdom of starting with a CE4 or EVOD and an eGo battery. When I started, June 2014, I felt like I barely got enough nic from my 24mg juice. At least during the first few critical weeks. I remember seeing 36mg juice online and wishing I could sample some locally. I didn't want to buy juice online but I needed MORE. Looking back, I think I would have been better served with something like a Nautilus tank, maybe a Nautie Mini just because a big 22mm tank may be a bit overwhelming for a newbie.

And I've also thought about the wisdom of starting with something like a Subox kit. Not because a Newbie needs 50W, but just to know that the starter kit will absolutely have everything a newbie needs, and plenty in reserve. I remember paying around 55 bucks in a B&M for my first real upgrade- an eMow kit. For another 6 bucks a far better Subox can be had, online, if you look around a little.

The point is that most people I see answering those newie threads are thinking carefully about real needs, and are still very focused on the primary goal (at least in the beginning)... getting off the smokes. Some of us may just have a different opinion than you do on the best starter gear.

There is another problem cropping up now, because a lot of B&Ms apparently no longer carry 24mg or even 18mg juice. If I had had to start with an EVOD and 12mg juice I would have never made it. This is problem with how B&Ms view their market and in particular newbies. But any advice given here has to accommodate the real world that the newbie finds at his local B&M. And I personally think recommending newbies to play roulette ordering juice online is a bad decision. That is the one thing I believe needs to be done locally, at a decent B&M's juice bar.

So the dealers are actually forcing newbies into higher end gear, whether we like it or not.

 

[pevinsghost]

2. I see, more and more, reports here of shops "pushing" mech mods onto newbies. Something I think was unthinkable just a year or two ago, when shops were pushing CE4's on newbies?

I could be wrong but that is my impression, just reading traffic here. I can see where mechs are very lucrative, enabling a customer base that has more or less endless demand, due to the "collectible" nature of mechs. There is no end to cool looking mechs.

The shop where I had this issue was running a sale on mechs specifically because the demand dropped and they wanted shelf space for regulated mods.

 

[pevinsghost]

I disagree...
Remember: "So, coming off a Nautilus on an istick, I decided to try sub ohming on a mech. Two defective mechs latter, I tried a different shop. This one didn't sell me a defect, they sold me a hybrid mod, and didn't give me any safety info with it."

This thread was about YOU wanting the shop to be responsible for YOU and your choices and decisions.
No one forced you to buy ANYTHING.

Cheers
I

He wasn't the original poster I was, and going back to the comparison to other products like cars and guns, if someone sold me a gun that didn't have a safety, a motorcycle with a suicide clutch, or a car that didn't have brakes without brakes, without saying one word about it, you better believe is consider that irresponsible and be upset about it.

 

[Kaezziel]

He wasn't the original poster I was, and going back to the comparison to other products like cars and guns, if someone sold me a gun that didn't have a safety, a motorcycle with a suicide clutch, or a car that didn't have brakes without brakes, without saying one word about it, you better believe is consider that irresponsible and be upset about it.

LOL... then don't buy a Glock...

 

[Hitcat44]

I read a couple of newbie posts a day, and I do NOT agree with your assessment. I never like to say never, and I'm sure every now and then someone suggests a newbie buy a mech and an RDA, but if it happens it is very rare here.

What I do see is a lot of people (myself included) rethinking the wisdom of starting with a CE4 or EVOD and an eGo battery. When I started, June 2014, I felt like I barely got enough nic from my 24mg juice. At least during the first few critical weeks. I remember seeing 36mg juice online and wishing I could sample some locally. I didn't want to buy juice online but I needed MORE. Looking back, I think I would have been better served with something like a Nautilus tank, maybe a Nautie Mini just because a big 22mm tank may be a bit overwhelming for a newbie.

And I've also thought about the wisdom of starting with something like a Subox kit. Not because a Newbie needs 50W, but just to know that the starter kit will absolutely have everything a newbie needs, and plenty in reserve. I remember paying around 55 bucks in a B&M for my first real upgrade- an eMow kit. For another 6 bucks a far better Subox can be had, online, if you look around a little.

The point is that most people I see answering those newie threads are thinking carefully about real needs, and are still very focused on the primary goal (at least in the beginning)... getting off the smokes. Some of us may just have a different opinion than you do on the best starter gear.

There is another problem cropping up now, because a lot of B&Ms apparently no longer carry 24mg or even 18mg juice. If I had had to start with an EVOD and 12mg juice I would have never made it. This is problem with how B&Ms view their market and in particular newbies. But any advice given here has to accommodate the real world that the newbie finds at his local B&M. And I personally think recommending newbies to play roulette ordering juice online is a bad decision. That is the one thing I believe needs to be done locally, at a decent B&M's juice bar.

So the dealers are actually forcing newbies into higher end gear, whether we like it or not.

Alert the Presses! Call out the National Guard and Warn the Vatican

For what it's worth (or not),,,, I personally Co-Sign & +1 All the above with the small exception of Advising a Newber to buy Juice On-Line being "Bad".
Same Experiences & thoughts myself at the beginning. Same in Retrospect as well.
Good Points and well said

 

[VNeil]

Alert the Presses! Call out the National Guard and Warn the Vatican

For what it's worth (or not),,,, I personally Co-Sign & +1 All the above with the small exception of Advising a Newber to buy Juice On-Line being "Bad".
Same Experiences & thoughts myself at the beginning. Same in Retrospect as well.
Good Points and well said

Just to be clear, the only reason I think recommending to newbies buying juice online is a bad idea is simply cost. Even with 15ml sampler size bottles, that's $5-$15 a pop. A newbie could spend a fortune blindly buying juice trying to figure out what tastes even palatable, much less what's the "right one". I don't have any health or safety issues.

When I started I went to a local shop with a decent juice bar with 50-100 flavors. I could have stayed all day sampling juices, and they were happy to let me do that. I bought my juice there (fairly priced at $10/oz) until I started DIY. I think I've only ever bought one bottle online, just because once I got into DIY I had no reason. And that was only because I spent two solid days reading an SB Mother's Milk clone recipe thread, and I just had to know what they were talking about

Another strategy, I guess, is to go into a B&M, sample commercially available juices from major makers, and then go buy it online. I have ethical issues with doing that, but if the shop is not catering to newbies by carrying high strength juice, maybe they are just getting what they deserve?

 

[Hitcat44]

He wasn't the original poster I was, and going back to the comparison to other products like cars and guns, if someone sold me a gun that didn't have a safety, a motorcycle with a suicide clutch, or a car that didn't have brakes without brakes, without saying one word about it, you better believe is consider that irresponsible and be upset about it.

Easy there now Mr. Nader,,,,
Can/Could you not easily See & readily Ascertain for yourself those were Missing/Dangerous/Inoperable/Beyond your Abilities (whether inherently or by lack of Education and Experience) prior to agreeing & accepting to Ownership of that Item(s)?
Do/Did you not Inspect & Research those Items? Were you not offered ample Opportunity to do so prior to your Purchase?
Were you Physically or by Inference threatened, forced, or coerced illegally into making said Purchases against your Will or best Judgement?

Could go on and on and on but if that's not enough for anyone of even Average intelligence to see the utter Fallacy & ludicrous Nature of your Argument,,,,
Then why waste more good time, effort, and altruistic Motive trying.

 

[stevegmu]

Not everyone is poor. Some of us can afford commercial e-liquid. Expecting someone who just started vaping to be able to make quality e-liquid is silly. No wonder so many give up, with their mechs, RDAs and homemade e-liquid...

 

[stevegmu]

He wasn't the original poster I was, and going back to the comparison to other products like cars and guns, if someone sold me a gun that didn't have a safety, a motorcycle with a suicide clutch, or a car that didn't have brakes without brakes, without saying one word about it, you better believe is consider that irresponsible and be upset about it.

Why did you even consider the mod if you didn't know anything about it? Surely you knew what a mech is, correct?

 

[Hitcat44]

Just to be clear, the only reason I think recommending to newbies buying juice online is a bad idea is simply cost. Even with 15ml sampler size bottles, that's $5-$15 a pop. A newbie could spend a fortune blindly buying juice trying to figure out what tastes even palatable, much less what's the "right one". I don't have any health or safety issues.

When I started I went to a local shop with a decent juice bar with 50-100 flavors. I could have stayed all day sampling juices, and they were happy to let me do that. I bought my juice there (fairly priced at $10/oz) until I started DIY. I think I've only ever bought one bottle online, just because once I got into DIY I had no reason. And that was only because I spent two solid days reading an SB Mother's Milk clone recipe thread, and I just had to know what they were talking about

Another strategy, I guess, is to go into a B&M, sample commercially available juices from major makers, and then go buy it online. I have ethical issues with doing that, but if the shop is not catering to newbies by carrying high strength juice, maybe they are just getting what they deserve?

See, Ya just had to keep on and ruin that glorious little bit of Détente we had going there. Jimmy Carter would be so ashamed and frustrated with you

AGAIN, Back to the Point.
IF some Yum-Yum goes online and sees an "attractive" Name or one other Person's Posting a "To Die For" Flavor and goes and orders the Stuff without:
Reading the Descrition,
Reading User Reviews,
Seriously applying the Above to their (hopefully) extensive knowledge of their own personal Like & Dislikes,
Combining ALL of those to make an Informed & Intelligent Buying Decision,

Then said Yum-Yum gets the Stuff and finds out they done screwed the Pooch.
Then,,,, It's Their OWN Dayumed Fault! Ya Get OUT; What Ya Put IN.

Think/Act like a Fool - Ya get Fooled - Ya accept ya own Foolishness - Ya learn - Ya Grow - Ya don't Repeat.
or
Think/Act like a Fool - Ya get Fooled - Ya Blame Someone/Everyone Else for Ya Own Foolishness - Ya Stay a Fool - Repeat.

 

[VNeil]

See, Ya just had to keep on and ruin that glorious little bit of Détente we had going there. Jimmy Carter would be so ashamed and frustrated with you

AGAIN, Back to the Point.
IF some Yum-Yum goes online and sees an "attractive" Name or one other Person's Posting a "To Die For" Flavor and goes and orders the Stuff without:
Reading the Descrition,
Reading User Reviews,
Seriously applying the Above to their (hopefully) extensive knowledge of their own personal Like & Dislikes,
Combining ALL of those to make an Informed & Intelligent Buying Decision,

Then said Yum-Yum gets the Stuff and finds out they done screwed the Pooch.
Then,,,, It's Their OWN Dayumed Fault! Ya Get OUT; What Ya Put IN.

Think/Act like a Fool - Ya get Fooled - Ya accept ya own Foolishness - Ya learn - Ya Grow - Ya don't Repeat.
or
Think/Act like a Fool - Ya get Fooled - Ya Blame Someone/Everyone Else for Ya Own Foolishness - Ya Stay a Fool - Repeat.

I thought we were talking about a newbie who had no idea what they liked because... they're a newbie

 

[Hitcat44]

They don't know they like Cherry? or Grape? or Banana? or Cinnamon? or Menthol? or etc..... ?
Or (like me) they HATE Coconut? or Rasberry? or etc.... ?

I do agree that sampling and beginning at the Vape-Shop Tastings is the preferred and most successful Method. That is obvious and should go without saying.
However (case in Point), I LOVE Sour Apple & Cherry Jolly Ranchers. It follows that those Flavors were No Brainers. Even if not Stellar,,, It's still more than acceptable and will "Flip the Switch"

That being said, I just got and Vaped some Mech Sauce WaterHog. It Is OUT-freaking-Standing! Everybody, Don't go research it or anything smart like that- Buy Some Now! Be sure and Vape it only on Sub-Ohm RDA Builds and a Mech Mod

*seriously though, It Is quite Tasty and Do NOT EVER Vape a Sub-Ohm anything and/or ANY Mech Mod without proper Education, Thought, and adequate Safety SOP.
Properly Disclaimed and now, Ya Yum-Yums are On Ya Own! Vape at your OWN Risk.
LIVE at Ya OWN Risk for that Matter

 

[Kaezziel]

They don't know they like Cherry? or Grape? or Banana? or Cinnamon? or Menthol? or etc..... ?
Or (like me) they HATE Coconut? or Rasberry? or etc.... ?

I do agree that sampling and beginning at the Vape-Shop Tastings is the preferred and most successful Method. That is obvious and should go without saying.
However (case in Point), I LOVE Sour Apple & Cherry Jolly Ranchers. It follows that those Flavors were No Brainers. Even if not Stellar,,, It's still more than acceptable and will "Flip the Switch"

That being said, I just got and Vaped some Mech Sauce WaterHog. It Is OUT-freaking-Standing! Everybody, Don't go research it or anything smart like that- Buy Some Now! Be sure and Vape it only on Sub-Ohm RDA Builds and a Mech Mod

*seriously though, It Is quite Tasty and Do NOT EVER Vape a Sub-Ohm anything and/or ANY Mech Mod without proper Education, Thought, and adequate Safety SOP.
Properly Disclaimed and now, Ya Yum-Yums are On Ya Own! Vape at your OWN Risk.
LIVE at Ya OWN Risk for that Matter

But I threw my ohm-meter away...
I should be okay, though... steamengine says that if I make 2 coils with 4 wraps around a 3mm mandrel using Nichrome 80, I'll get a 0.14 ohm set-up. And that'll be 30A on a fresh battery... so, as long as I have a decent battery, I should be fine, right.... I mean... "I want cloudzzz, Brah!!" And steamengine is good, so I don't really need a meter... right?

(FYI: I'm just being stupid here on purpose... I really don't run as high as .14... I mean, c'mon. I want clouds... everybody knows you gotta get below .1 for that...)

 

[Hitcat44]

Point Well Made & Well Taken
+1 as I chuckled and spewed monsterous (and Tasty) Vaporz from the corners of my Mouth and Nostrils (maybe Ears too).

 

[Topwater Elvis]

While you 'experts' are busy arguing over analogies & minutia wasting space in the new members section, there are new members needing help & reading this thinking to themselves ' no way am I going to ask a question around here'.

 

[pevinsghost]

Why did you even consider the mod if you didn't know anything about it? Surely you knew what a mech is, correct?

Yes, I knew what amech was, I had owned a grand total of two up to that point, them both breaking or being garbage to begin with not withstanding. I had not ever heard of a hybrid before. The only info the guy at the shop gave was "This ones a hybrid, the atty screws on here, and sits on the battery." And "we're running a 40% off sale on mech's, so that one is $20, almost fasttech prices without the wait." Which at that point was all the info on hybrid I had, I.e.: this was one, how to attach my atomizer, and the price of this one. I should have researched more, fair enough, but are you saying that you don't think it would have been nice for him to give a little safety info? Especially since nearly every mishap I have heard of since then has involved just such a device, or a bad usb charging board? Is that the type of service you appreciate?
Don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything out of him, but I will be speaking with him to ask him to try to work safety info in in the future. If someone doesn't want to hear it, fine, that's on them. If he doesn't want to do that, that's certainly not the type of person I want to do business with.
Edited for auto correcting my auto correct.

 

[snork]

I thought we were talking about a newbie who had no idea what they liked because... they're a newbie

That's right. I remember back to when I first started vaping and it was a complete mystery to me. Even when I saw the "instructions" right in front of me the nomenclature might as well have been hieroglyphics. Fast forward to 2015 and multiply that by ten.

Damn straight a vape shop has an obligation.