What's Wrong With This Ad?

[Von Vape]

My take on the whole thing.
Stressing over One print ad, now lining Bird Cages, while thousands of others are being pressed into Print, on Media Channels, Magazines and throughout Social media having lasting far reaching effect - Takes away from a much needed focus on the problem at hand. Reducing/eliminating Regulatory control.

To a large extent I actually agree with you. These are the types of things that needed to be done from the get go, not as we approach the midnight hour but that DIDN'T HAPPEN. You may have read this blog from the other post, A Billion Lives Needs Help:

Why vaping can’t survive

To date, there STILL isn't a cohesive coalition fighting to "Reduce/eliminate Regulatory control." There have been a few law suits filed and the vaping associations have FINALLY banned together BUT these are just cheap shots AFTER the bell has rung (IMO). In fact, the above blog points out that there is an actual business strategy in place that allows for the feds to knock off the competition and pick up the pieces after the fall out. How's THAT for "brotherhood"? Yes, this IS probably too little, too late but you saw the effect fighting the billboard had, just yesterday and that's where we are now, one small victory at a time, one more lie exposed. If you're counting on a coalition to pull our fat out of the fire, I wish you luck. That's what I DON'T see happening. It has come down to hand to hand combat and one small skirmish at a time. If you'd like to man the trenches, I/we ALL welcome you with open arms, brother. It's well beyond time to STAND UP and be counted.

@JimDrock point well taken. I will revise the Haz Mat to include PPE and point out that the haz mat suit is an obvious exaggeration of what is suggested as PPE for Flavor Manufacturing, something along those lines.

@AJ Steele Also an excellent point. I have long overused quotation marks and have to rein myself in on those. Also, getting rid of "they" is a good catch. Not coming off like a conspiracy theorist and showing due respect IS the correct way to approach this.

@Eskie Thank you for your suggestion as well. I will try to work in some of the positive aspects of vaping/not smoking. Good call!

Thank you all for the suggestions and your points of view (and I do mean ALL). This really is on each one of us individually, now. Not to sound like a super hero from the Justice League, if we all expose the lies in the anti vaping ad, radio spots, blogs & billboards, where ever and when ever they come up, we may (yes, it's a long shot) turn the tides. Probably not in time to stop the Vapocolypse but at least to get the anti vaping movement to start questioning the REAL motives of those who handed them their loving cups.

This thread is staying open so invite others to take a look. Thanks again to EVERYONE!

Von Vape

 

[crxess]

saw was this ad, top right corner, FRONT PAGE!

My big Question, and I advertised my business for over 25 years, is Just Who did the Deed?
Placing Advertisement is generally a Very basic procedure and does not involve Hunting down and Tagging other Advertisers to piggy back an ad.(Honestly never heard of such) So, is there a Paper editor with a personal Agenda? A Typesetter getting Extra Pocket change?
If one can get my point............Advertising is to Dive the most POSITIVE EXPOSURE to the person/company paying for the Advertisement. This looks like a perfect Liable Suit in Print.

 

[crxess]

There have been a few law suits filed and the vaping associations have FINALLY banned together BUT these are just cheap shots AFTER the bell has rung (IMO).

See, I am not going to go there.......and actually feel much has been done and is being done - Within Available Funding.
Vaping in Non-cohesive with millions of vapers not realizing or barely realizing there are millions of other Vapers. 1/2 the E-cig industry is still cig-a-likes and starter kit.
Probably as much as 50% of the other 1//2 are still new or fresh Vapers being helped by friends.
All of those are Write-offs to our struggle - they are clueless to the situation.
Our Campaign Dollars are in their pockets and likely to stay there.

Only the largest of US E-liquid manufacturers have Capitol able to fund Suits. Add in a Few Chinese manufacturing friends to the industry and we have a feasible fight.

I would venture to say, Most Lobbying groups are at a constant struggle just to stay heads above water. CASAA Has Hundreds of Non-Contributing members. Know that I am one of those with an income that will not allow excessive waste. When the Fight is locked in, and I am asked, My saved funds are theirs.

I have serious doubts all or our Advocacy would amount to the Money vested against us by CFTFK.

It is much more difficult to Circle the Wagons when there are only Two.

 

[Forkeh]

Sounds a bit wack-a-do for the casual reader. I get where you're coming from and what you're saying. They're not going to. So a few suggestions to make it more appealing to the general public.

Kill the quotation marks unless you're actually quoting something. In the case of your article, your excessive use makes your writing look sloppy, and overly snarky. In general, I think it would be in your favor to tone down the snark of the whole article. Like I said, I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it'll win anyone over.

Avoid using pronouns like "they", unless you're referring to the very last noun you used, and it's clear. Excessive pronoun use can make your writing unclear, and in your case, it plays into sounding like a conspiracy theorist. If you can't identify the noun you're using the pronoun for, you need to just rewrite the sentence to exclude it, or do away with the sentence all together.

When referring to The Royal College, I suggest you only use the 95% statistic. Maybe as much as 99%, is sort of meaningless. Especially in the mind of a doubter. Actually, this would be a good place to put a real quote and, of course, source the quote. Something they can look up.

 

[AJ Steele]

Also, I would add, don't limit yourself to 510 words, no one will pick up on it. Rather, just use the extra space to refine your arguments and drive your point home.
My 2 cents

 

[Von Vape]

My big Question......

That was one of the most shocking things of all to me as well, crxess. That takes A LOT of palm grease to geta paper, even a free press news paper to put itself in a position of libel like that. The vape shop owner spent their hard earned money to place their add top right, front page. Only to get piggy backed with a double the size ad paid for by you & me! I have a cautionary letter going off to the editorial staff already, outlining the position they put themselves in, the absurdity of state & local public health organizations running an anti vaping add, when their supposed goal is to get people off of tobacco & backing it up with the Royal College of Physicians Report.
I will also be contacting each non-profit organization individually with a similar letter. Will it have any effect? Probably not, but it may give them pause, just enough to realize that they aren't pulling the wool over EVERYBODY'S eyes AND that some of us aren't just going to lie down and take it.

Vaping in Non-cohesive with millions of vapers not realizing or barely realizing there are millions of other Vapers. 1/2 the E-cig industry is still cig-a-likes and starter kit.
Probably as much as 50% of the other 1//2 are still new or fresh Vapers being helped by friends.
All of those are Write-offs to our struggle - they are clueless to the situation.
Our Campaign Dollars are in their pockets and likely to stay there.

(Sorry, I was writing when you posted this, that's why it got slipped into the same post.)
You assume too much, my friend. A quick glance at my avatar will indicate that I have been tobacco free for 138 days. I am also using my original wimpy little starter kit, Kanger Subvod to this day. Why because it's all I could afford and because of the non-cohesiveness you spoke of and the lack of advertising by the manufacturers of quality mods & tanks.
I tried to quit smoking back in 2006 or 7 with the lame cig-a-likes that were available. I tried cig-a-likes several times since and finally discovered modern vaping gear through my own efforts, allowing me to quit the stinks immediately & effortlessly. Shortly after, I discovered this board and it has been very helpful in regard to knowledge and the history of modern vaping. I also noticed that the DD has been floating around since 2012 and most here were considered to be wearing tin foil hats if they mentioned mounting a fight way back then or stocking up just in case. It was only about the time I signed up here that there were murmurs of urgency. In my opinion, the vaping community & major manufacturers have shot themselves in the foot by NOT becoming cohesive & inclusive, by not advertising and touting the wonderful, fantastic, nearly miraculous benefits of such an amazing product, instead choosing to rely on word of mouth, the internet and social media to get the word out. That's all well and good, that's the way things work now-a-days, right? The problem is it's still secret society, back room schtuff. You have to know somebody who knows somebody, blah, blah, blah. In Alaska, particularly where I live, there aren't very many somebodies to know.
You've been here since 2102 and have had time to stock up. You can see the steep learning curve and financial crunch this has put me in, not to mention all of the other smokers who might have given vaping a try if not for the DD. I whole heartedly agree that there does need to be cohesiveness and OPENNESS within the community and REAL advertising by the manufacturers. Too late for that though huh?
What it sounds like I'm hearing form you is, oh well, too late for anyone to do anything for themselves, might as well just throw in the towel and throw money at the organizations who are going to do it for us, when that time comes.
[Moderated]

Von Vape

 

[Von Vape]

@Forkeh , Thank you for your suggestions. Similar to what has already been noted and changes are being addressed. Very helpful though, thank you.

@AJ Steele, You are correct. It was as much a surprise to me as anyone that it came out to 510 words. If my math is correct, I have room for 190 more and I plan to use them all.

Thanks again to both of you!
Von Vape

 

[Pamawoman]

My two cents. It drives me nuts that it says Big Tobacco has anything to do with vaping. THAT is another subliminal messaging tactic.

 

[crxess]

(Sorry, I was writing when you posted this, that's why it got slipped into the same post.)
You assume too much, my friend. A quick glance at my avatar will indicate that I have been tobacco free for 138 days. I am also using my original wimpy little starter kit, Kanger Subvod to this day. Why because it's all I could afford and because of the non-cohesiveness you spoke of and the lack of advertising by the manufacturers of quality mods & tanks.
I tried to quit smoking back in 2006 or 7 with the lame cig-a-likes that were available. I tried cig-a-likes several times since and finally discovered modern vaping gear through my own efforts, allowing me to quit the stinks immediately & effortlessly. Shortly after, I discovered this board and it has been very helpful in regard to knowledge and the history of modern vaping. I also noticed that the DD has been floating around since 2012 and most here were considered to be wearing tin foil hats if they mentioned mounting a fight way back then or stocking up just in case. It was only about the time I signed up here that there were murmurs of urgency. In my opinion, the vaping community & major manufacturers have shot themselves in the foot by NOT becoming cohesive & inclusive, by not advertising and touting the wonderful, fantastic, nearly miraculous benefits of such an amazing product, instead choosing to rely on word of mouth, the internet and social media to get the word out. That's all well and good, that's the way things work now-a-days, right? The problem is it's still secret society, back room schtuff. You have to know somebody who knows somebody, blah, blah, blah. In Alaska, particularly where I live, there aren't very many somebodies to know.
You've been here since 2102 and have had time to stock up. You can see the steep learning curve and financial crunch this has put me in, not to mention all of the other smokers who might have given vaping a try if not for the DD. I whole heartedly agree that there does need to be cohesiveness and OPENNESS within the community and REAL advertising by the manufacturers. Too late for that though huh?
What it sounds like I'm hearing form you is, oh well, too late for anyone to do anything for themselves, might as well just throw in the towel and throw money at the organizations who are going to do it for us, when that time comes.
[Moderated]

Von Vape

Not throwing you under the Bus in those figures. You, like the rest of us, Thought, reached out and Found ECF and others like minded. Sadly that Very large chunk I mentioned just Vape. I'm Glad they have put forth their effort and non to thrilled they are clueless to the impending DOOM awaiting the industry.

Actually, I am infuriated.........but not at the simple Vaper.
I'm fed up with Government interfering in every aspect of our lives.
I'm fed up with Profit Protectionist Vendors Not making this information known to their Customers.
I am especially Fed up with every For Profit(non-profit) Organization Fighting Big Tobacco and Tossing us under the same Bus for bigger funding.
Big Parma should be indicted for unjust Slander and deceptive practices for profits. They are funding most of those groups to do the lobbying for them.

ummmm.........Yea..........you will likely fine me in the more political threads these days, and elsewhere online.

 

[Danousa]

@Von Vape many have put forward great suggestions. I would suggest that the people that don't smoke think we "vapers" are pro-smoking. I believe that most "vapers" are as anti-smoking as the public in general. So you might say something about that. "Most vapers are anti-smoking." "Many vapers are against smoking." I am not a writer, perhaps others can come up with a better sentence to communicate the thought.

 

[NealBJr]

I agree with BoogaWu. Even though I don't believe it's a "true conspiracy", I do believe there is some truth about it... However, if I voice that, people will start turning deaf and loose interest. I simply state the fact that they have only tested limited products back in 2009 and only prefilled "cigalikes". They haven't tested anything new. It seems they are now regulating displays, software, and certain batteries..... this is the FDA, not the UL. As far as the flavors, I guess bakers (like me) are in danger.... we heat our flavors too, so I guess I should start wearing a gas mask when I bake.. I might inhale heated flavors....ahh.. I must stop.. going off on a rant again. The FDA is going overboard plain and simple. It is more of a power grab in my views.

 

[LittleBird]

Thanks for caring so much, Von Vape. It's a wonderful thing!

Just a few thoughts for your consideration:
- FEMA is the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association. It is funded by member organizations, and is not an extension of the FDA, nor is it an "agency." I'm not trying to split hairs; a fact checker would pick this up, easily.
- FEMA has an official position on the use of flavorings in ejuice. I think their position is what will limit (further) FDA overreach vis availability of flavorings to DIYers. I wouldn't be inclined to slam FEMA. IMO, of course.
- Dr Konstaninos Farsalinas has published several articles in widely recognized scientific journals on the composition of ejuice. His work may be useful to you if you decide to reframe your rebuttal to tout the benefits of vaping. Here's a link to his blog: A new study verifies that e-cigarettes are orders of magnitude safer than tobacco cigarettes
- Perhaps some of Dr. Michael Siegal's work on public health benefits of vaping v. smoking can bolster your argument. Here's an article in the WSJ, written by Dr. Siegal : The Misbegotten Crusade Against E-Cigarettes

Keep it up, Von!

 

[mattiem]

@Von Vape many have put forward great suggestions. I would suggest that the people that don't smoke think we "vapers" are pro-smoking. I believe that most "vapers" are as anti-smoking as the public in general. So you might say something about that. "Most vapers are anti-smoking." "Many vapers are against smoking." I am not a writer, perhaps others can come up with a better sentence to communicate the thought.

So we join all of those that demonized us while we were still smokers I was one of them for over 45 years. I refuse to join the enemy now that I vape instead of smoking even if it MIGHT help our cause.

 

[HBcorpse]

So we join all of those that demonized us while we were still smokers I was one of them for over 45 years. I refuse to join the enemy now that I vape instead of smoking even if it MIGHT help our cause.

But now that you're not a smoker, can you not see why people would demonize smoking?

After hitting my peak stride, at 3 packs a day for almost a decade, I never realized how terrible I smelled.

After three months of vaping, I could finally smell my surroundings...and that meant nearly all my clothes and bedsheets had to be tossed out or washed and donated. I stank like a pukey ashtray!

Now, 5 years into vaping, I have a hard time being around smokers. The smoke, and the smell. Bad. Very bad.

You're not "joining the enemy" by standing alongside the anti-smoking camp, in this battle against the FDA.
Remember: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

You joined a non-smoking world by starting to vape and quit smoking.
You may not demonize those who smoke, but you're not on their side anymore...whether you know it, or like it, or not.
I've become an outcast amongst the people I know who still smoke. And from the stories I've heard from other vapers, that's not an uncommon scenario.

I'm not trying to bash you, or call you out.
Just hoping to realign your perception a little.
Believe me, I'm not saying that the anti-smoking crowd is a gang of angels. I'm just saying their views are now more closely aligned with a vaper's views...

 

[mattiem]

But now that you're not a smoker, can you not see why people would demonize smoking?

No, I can not. I believe in live and let live and demonizing one group of people is not something I personally would ever do.

After hitting my peak stride, at 3 packs a day for almost a decade, I never realized how terrible I smelled.

After three months of vaping, I could finally smell my surroundings...and that meant nearly all my clothes and bedsheets had to be tossed out or washed and donated. I stank like a pukey ashtray!

Now, 5 years into vaping, I have a hard time being around smokers. The smoke, and the smell. Bad. Very bad.

You're not "joining the enemy" by standing alongside the anti-smoking camp, in this battle against the FDA.
Remember: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

In my opinion, yes I would be and I will not join that group.

You joined a non-smoking world by starting to vape and quit smoking.
You may not demonize those who smoke, but you're not on their side anymore...whether you know it, or like it, or not.
I've become an outcast amongst the people I know who still smoke. And from the stories I've heard from other vapers, that's not an uncommon scenario.

I'm not trying to bash you, or call you out.
Just hoping to realign your perception a little.
Believe me, I'm not saying that the anti-smoking crowd is a gang of angels. I'm just saying their views are now more closely aligned with a vaper's views...

I'm sorry to be so blunt but how can you presume to know what side I am on.
My perceptions are mine and they don't need to be realigned!!!!!!!! Thank you so very much for trying to tell me how I should think and feel

 

[mattiem]

I am sorry that I seem to have derailed your thread VonVape. I will say no more

BTW: great job so far on your response to the lies and innuendo tied to that photo

 

[HBcorpse]

No, I can not. I believe in live and let live and demonizing one group of people is not something I personally would ever do.

I didn't say it was right. All I implied was that leaving a certain group behind, may lead to a little hindsight, and clarity, as to why someone would demonize that group. It certainly did for me.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but how can you presume to know what side I am on.

I wasn't presuming what side you are on. All I can say, factually, is that if you are no longer a smoker, you are no longer "on their side".

My perceptions are mine and they don't need to be realigned!!!!!!!! Thank you so very much for trying to tell me how I should think and feel

Wow. Good job on taking a defensive stance against a message that meant no offense.
I was merely offering a point of view that you may not have considered...but if you want to try to drag me down to your argumentative level, you will not succeed.
I would never lower myself to the level you are on, where anyone would tell someone how to think or feel.

---------

Apologies are mine, Sir Von Vape.

Back to the topic at hand, I think you're getting some good pointers here. Especially those concerning the conspiracy angle.
And it's already been said, but making your rebuttal bullet proof against fact checkers is a great idea. They'll try to tear you down for defending the vape shop...therefore, they must not be given any ammunition from your writing.

 

[Janet H]

@Von Vape many have put forward great suggestions. I would suggest that the people that don't smoke think we "vapers" are pro-smoking. I believe that most "vapers" are as anti-smoking as the public in general. So you might say something about that. "Most vapers are anti-smoking." "Many vapers are against smoking." I am not a writer, perhaps others can come up with a better sentence to communicate the thought.

Excellent point. Vapers are definitely not pro-smoking advocates. Mostly I look at smokers and feel bad for them. The smell of them makes me turn away, but I'd never make a fuss at them because I used to be one of them and know how hard it is to quit. How sad that they could be enjoying something much better. The most common statement I hear from someone who has switched to vaping is their feeling of Freedom! to be done with cigarettes.

 

[crxess]

I didn't say it was right. All I implied was that leaving a certain group behind, may lead to a little hindsight, and clarity, as to why someone would demonize that group. It certainly did for me.

Did NOT for me.
I Quit due to failing health.
I Quit due to the loss of my Mother from COPD
I Quit for my Families financial security - I am the supporter
I Quit because I HAD A CHOICE

I do not Demonize those that continue to Smoke as
a) They may yet not be convensed of the Dangers
b) They may not have found a Solution that works for them
c) They are partaking in a Legal act
d) They were duped into becoming addicted to a Legal Product supported by a Corrupt Society. The Same Society that attempts to Box and Demonize them/us/me.

Are you aware Due to FDA Interference - Safer Cigarettes have been side shelved, safer alternative Tobacco Solutions Have been written off, simply because the Tobacco ACT Forbid promoting a Safer Product.

Ever Ask why?

STATUS QUO

Bad Tobacco
Self Righteous Society
ALL or NONE Mentality

Sugar is next on the hit list
or is it Manditory Chipping of all Americans for tracking purposes?

 

[VHRB2014]

Sometimes the simpler question is "what`s right with it"?