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It's not simply marketing. Effectually a blu-cig style setup is the most similar thing to the immediacy and social acceptance of a cigarette. It might not work very well, but it serves it's function. Despite mods being quite affordable and a variety of affordable styles of clearomizers/tanks that all work quite well...they look ridiculous and are kinda fiddly.
You can click on the first frustrated thread on this forum, and you will get a ton of responses immediately about washing wicks, and the quality of cotton, or arguments regarding the best way to get a fully primed cart so you don't kill it out the gate.
They're helpful, but they also underline the reality of vaping. It's a hobby, and kinda a lot of trial and error. See, smoking is not a hobby. It satisfies an immediate need or want with zero struggle. I think the problem is the comparison between the two. While vaping can satisfy what some seek (and is on many levels much better) than the thing it pretends to replace...it isn't anything functionally similar to a cigarette.
Dude 1: "Hey man, let's take a break and grab a smoke..."
Dude 2: "I got something better...come with me real quick."
Dude 1: "What the heck is all this stuff...look, I dunno what you're up to, but I thought this was gonna be a five second deal..."
Dude 2: "Sigh, just grab the 28 gauge from that tackle box and those needle nose pliers, and I'm gonna show you what you've been missing..."
Dude 1: " Ok, well now this is really in the realm of creeping me out. You DO or you DON'T have cigarettes? I just wanna clarify this before we go any further..."
Dude 2: "It's totally better than a cigarette...can you grab some of the juice out of that cabinet over there?"
Dude 1: "Er...... is this stuff. There's like a million bottles in here. Anyway..here ya go..."
Dude 2: "Did you take this from the second shelf? Look, everything on the second shelf is steeping. Nevermind, I'll get it..."
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cigalikes open the door to vaping, RBAs are the doorstop. at least for me anyway. im sure egos and T3s can be a perfectly fine dorstop for many.
if someone is a smoker, and even if they dont use a cigalike to quit, the simple existance of the cigalike can open their mind to vaping. for someone who knows nothing about vaping, being exposed to it is the first step. its crucial. and seeing someone with a APV might not be effective exposure. they most likely wont think youre vaping nicotine. they probably have no clue that its a device youre using to remian off of tobacco. cigalikes open the door and serve a purpose, even if you never buy one or even use one.
im sure tons of aspiring vapers had seen a cigalike, went online to research, then found that they can get an ego or a mod and actually quit smoking. and never even buy that cigalike. two years ago, i did buy that cigalike because i thought they looked cool. i had no idea that they werent as powerful or effective as the larger crazy looking mods. i might not have ever bought a mod if i hadnt tried something simpler first. for the most part, smokers think mods are weird and unnecessary. but once they bridge the gap in their mind from cigarette ->to cigalike -> to APV, its all starts to make sense. cigarette -> to APV makes little sense to the average smoker.
if someone is a smoker, and even if they dont use a cigalike to quit, the simple existance of the cigalike can open their mind to vaping. for someone who knows nothing about vaping, being exposed to it is the first step. its crucial. and seeing someone with a APV might not be effective exposure. they most likely wont think youre vaping nicotine. they probably have no clue that its a device youre using to remian off of tobacco. cigalikes open the door and serve a purpose, even if you never buy one or even use one.
im sure tons of aspiring vapers had seen a cigalike, went online to research, then found that they can get an ego or a mod and actually quit smoking. and never even buy that cigalike. two years ago, i did buy that cigalike because i thought they looked cool. i had no idea that they werent as powerful or effective as the larger crazy looking mods. i might not have ever bought a mod if i hadnt tried something simpler first. for the most part, smokers think mods are weird and unnecessary. but once they bridge the gap in their mind from cigarette ->to cigalike -> to APV, its all starts to make sense. cigarette -> to APV makes little sense to the average smoker.
In real life, if someone is interested in trying vaping and wondering what to start with, I tell them to get the biggest battery they would be comfortable using. Most of the time it starts with a cig-a-like, sometimes an eGo. I think nothing beats a cig sized battery (auto battery) and a carto to covince someone to try vaping along with smoking. I tell them if they run into any issues or frustrations, that can be remedied by upgrading what they use. I know a few who know the other options, but have been more than happy sticking with there Smokeless Image KR808s and juice to fill the cartos. For me, after a couple months I wanted to move on from cig-a-likes, and since I was already a member of ECF I knew the next step.
Mechs and RBAs are advanced user devices. Start with the basics and move up depending on wants and needs. A quality cig-a-like like from Smokeless Image or Halo is often enough to convince the most jaded smoker that vaping is legit.
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Mechs and RBAs are advanced user devices. Start with the basics and move up depending on wants and needs. A quality cig-a-like like from Smokeless Image or Halo is often enough to convince the most jaded smoker that vaping is legit.
Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
Sorry for the rant. It may have been fueled by a few too many beers. For the most part, people here are very helpful. I was asked last night for about the one hundredth time by a smoker "where can I buy one of those?" Half way through my response about group buys and over seas websites and watching forums in order to know what time to start f5ing, I just had to quit. I realized what a huge douche I sounded like. I handed the smoker my backup (a 650 twist with a good functioning evod) and he said that it just wouldn't do. He wanted the experience I was having.
I wish I could just send him to Walmart to buy one. Sometimes it just feels like this is some sort of secret society. I know ego systems are good enough for most but I really want to be able to help those who don't find them satisfying.
I wish I could just send him to Walmart to buy one. Sometimes it just feels like this is some sort of secret society. I know ego systems are good enough for most but I really want to be able to help those who don't find them satisfying.
The only reason i did not buy a mech mod and genny right of the bat was because i did not know they even existed lol i saw a cig a like at a gas station and thought wow thats cool and bought the over priced piece of junk and vaped. Yeh the vape sucked and k wanted more and there was no way that cig a like would help me quit, i wanted more so i took it apart and tried to mod it by removing the filler in the carto and just dripping before i knew that dripping was even a thing .... After i got fed up with that i went online and typed in e cig and the first and most promanant thing that came up was ego devices so i bought the best ego style i could, it was an ego c twist and also a boge f16 carto tank and mbv juice . And j was happy enough to quit smoking .
After a wile i found this site registered and found out about mech mods and modding and i kicked myself in the ... for nkt coming here first . But by now my woman was interested so i gave her the ego twist and the boge carto tanks and ordered an itaste mvp and the smoktech natural with the agi and all the juice and suplys i would need . And have never been happyer!
The point is that i am verry mechanicaly inclined and i could have started right off the bat with the natural and the agi no problem and i wish i had cause it would have saved me money and agrivation and wasted time. But not everyone is mechanicaly inclined like that and would never unerstand it . Like my woman she is as happy as can be with a simple ego twist.
Mechs ar not for everyone so i dont agree with you fully but i do agree with the fact that newbs should be recomended something that will impress and last and also deliver clouds of vapor . For instance i recomend the itaste mvp to newbs because its versitile and easy to use and the battery life is amazing, and for toppers i recomend the protank because it works and it also i.troduces the newb to the option of rebuilding . With that setup they can decide if they want to rebuild or not and practice easily and they also have a good voltage range to play with and find there sweet spot. For juice i recomend halo or mbv because they are fast to ship and high quality for cheap money.
No person coming from a gas station cig a like to an itaste mvp with a protank is not going to be imidiatly impressed and driven to quit and with the selection of flavors at mbv they are shure to find something they can vape all day. And like i said the mvp is reliable and so easy to use a ..... could operate it .
But yeh i do agree with the fact tbat it seems newbs are recomended under powered setups with small batts i just do not agree thay should be recomended mechs and rebuildables unless you know that person is mechanicaly inclined enough to understand it right away.
For instance my father has been a machineist for 30 years .... If he wanted to vape i would recomend the smok magneto and rsst or the provari and zen atty or even an itaste mvp and a good quality genny, mabe even a hybrid as his verry first device frankly because my father is a f ing mechanical mathematical genius and would have no issue.
After a wile i found this site registered and found out about mech mods and modding and i kicked myself in the ... for nkt coming here first . But by now my woman was interested so i gave her the ego twist and the boge carto tanks and ordered an itaste mvp and the smoktech natural with the agi and all the juice and suplys i would need . And have never been happyer!
The point is that i am verry mechanicaly inclined and i could have started right off the bat with the natural and the agi no problem and i wish i had cause it would have saved me money and agrivation and wasted time. But not everyone is mechanicaly inclined like that and would never unerstand it . Like my woman she is as happy as can be with a simple ego twist.
Mechs ar not for everyone so i dont agree with you fully but i do agree with the fact that newbs should be recomended something that will impress and last and also deliver clouds of vapor . For instance i recomend the itaste mvp to newbs because its versitile and easy to use and the battery life is amazing, and for toppers i recomend the protank because it works and it also i.troduces the newb to the option of rebuilding . With that setup they can decide if they want to rebuild or not and practice easily and they also have a good voltage range to play with and find there sweet spot. For juice i recomend halo or mbv because they are fast to ship and high quality for cheap money.
No person coming from a gas station cig a like to an itaste mvp with a protank is not going to be imidiatly impressed and driven to quit and with the selection of flavors at mbv they are shure to find something they can vape all day. And like i said the mvp is reliable and so easy to use a ..... could operate it .
But yeh i do agree with the fact tbat it seems newbs are recomended under powered setups with small batts i just do not agree thay should be recomended mechs and rebuildables unless you know that person is mechanicaly inclined enough to understand it right away.
For instance my father has been a machineist for 30 years .... If he wanted to vape i would recomend the smok magneto and rsst or the provari and zen atty or even an itaste mvp and a good quality genny, mabe even a hybrid as his verry first device frankly because my father is a f ing mechanical mathematical genius and would have no issue.
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I don't think anyone is trying to scare anyone away from anything. The fact is that it's not a natural transition to go straight from analogs to a PV with an 18650 battery and a rebuiltable tank atty. I remember that when I first started doing my research, my primary criteria was that I wanted an e-cig that was the same size as my analogs. If you'd have told me to try something the size of an eGo, I'd have told you to go F yourself.
It wasn't until I bought my V2 starter pack that I figured out #1 I really like vaping and #2 I really need something that lasts longer than 45 mins. A month later, I have 3 eGo batteries. That was a vast improvement. It also got me interested in seeing what else was out there... I saw the ProVari but hated the look, the size and the price. Shortly after, Volcano introduced the original LavaTube and I jumped all over it.
The LavaTube was my steady weapon of choice for about a year and I still think it was a fantastic PV for that period of time. Since then, I've acquired two ProVari's and more than a few high end mechs.
No one was scaring me away from the types of devices I have now, back in the beginning. It was all me. I had a preconceived notion of what I wanted and didn't want. It took time for my mindset to move from "I want to quit smoking" to "I want the best vape possible".
Also, there are very experienced vapors that want nothing to do with RBAs. Especially the old-school 510 & 901 drippers... The vape from direct dripping on an old school atty is still very hard to beat and not everyone wants to f... around with wrapping coils.
I also know a guy who started vaping around the same time I did... To this day, he is still using 808 stick batteries and ordering prefilled cartos. He's well aware that there are other options available but he wants nothing to do with them. He legitimately wants to do nothing more than charge batteries and replace cartos. He tried refilling cartos, had a couple leaking issues and said to hell with refilling.
The point is everyone has their own ideal vape and experience is the only way for a person to figure out was is ideal for them. Trying to convince a newb that they need an tank style RBA on an 18mm battery mod will scare them away from vaping just as fast as a crappy 1st vape.
BTW... Stick batteries & eGo batteries still account for at least 95% of the e-cigs being sold. The reason is, that is still what most people want. High end PV's aren't being hidden from anyone. Most people simply don't want to screw with them.
Just my 2 cents...
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I've been recently feeling that newcomers are being best helped by the people at your stage of the game. You still know the feeling of being a newcomer, the answers are generally easy to give or find, and you still have the excitement level.
It'd be great for you to jump right in as a helper.
Because, without the experience of eGo's, simple VV devices and various delivery devices, most people wouldn't understand the principles involved and could be a danger to themselves or others.
Hell, some people have proven a danger to themselves and others with cig-a-likes and eGos, by charging them incorretcly.
I'm not trying to be pretentious... if someone wants to get into Mechs and Sub Ohm RBAs I'm more than happy to point them in the right direction (No group buy needed)... But if in my dealings with them I realize they don't have the knowledge or patience for it... I happily point them towards a Provari and a LR Carto Tank... Which is a perfectly acceptable system for most vapers.
Plus, truth is... a smoker doesn't want a large Mech with an RBA. They want to "eSmoke"
It isn't until they can confidently identify themselves as a Vaper and not a Smoker that they begin to see the benefits of said Mech/RBA... at that point they are open to learning.
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Why would you bother going into all that?
Direct them to a quality Brick and Mortar...
Or if you don't have decent Shops near you...
Direct them to one of the online retailers that carries high end mechanicals
Local Vape & Vape Rev come to mind.
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Marketing is expensive and then the reasonable prices become unreasonable.
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I think a lot of this stuff depends on personal preference. I first started I wasn't interested in producing clouds that rained juice. I just wanted something to get me off the fire sticks. A starter kit worked for me. I may have paid too much for it but it got me there. Something is to be said for a store front though. Overhead is much higher than an online retailer. So theyre going to have to charge more for their products. Luckily I went to a store where the people wanted to give me a product to satisfy my needs. I realize I'm still relatively new to all this but in just the past few months of my vaping career I've progressed. I am now working on my own mech mod. It's not something you can just jump into. I get the oh duh moments where I realize how simple something can be but it's through these same forums and the help of my local retailers that I get the information I need to get to that oh duh moment.
I'm pretty well aware of the options available at this point and I'm still using 808-threaded stick and pen batteries. I just don't want to vape on something that's the size of a flashlight, at least not when I'm out of the house. If big PVs were the only option I probably woudn't have taken up vaping in the first place. I've been building electronics as a hobby and a profession for decades but I have other things I'd rather do with my time than wind coils and build mods. The only reason I even got into rolling my own smokes was to save money. Smoking was a habit, not a hobby, and vaping is just my healthier replacement for smoking.
Not all small-format starter kits are crap. My G6 kit got me off cigs after 32 years of smoking and outside of having to charge batteries often, I have no complaints about it. Same story for the E-smart I've started using recently. I have exactly one eGo-sized battery (a Triton) and I only use that at home.
I guess my point is that some people opt for cig-alikes or pen-style PVs not out of ignorance but just because they suit their needs better.
Not all small-format starter kits are crap. My G6 kit got me off cigs after 32 years of smoking and outside of having to charge batteries often, I have no complaints about it. Same story for the E-smart I've started using recently. I have exactly one eGo-sized battery (a Triton) and I only use that at home.
I guess my point is that some people opt for cig-alikes or pen-style PVs not out of ignorance but just because they suit their needs better.
I think " satisfying vapor " is subjective. Some don't need to have monster clouds of Vape to be satisfied. I for one just NEED the nicotine and WANT the flavor. Taking my 1100mah ego twist to work is just fine. When I get home my Silver Bullets and carto tanks are just fine.
All 3 of my kicks are dialed down fairly low but I am completely satisfied with the nic fix and flavor.
I'm a bit puzzled as to how long is the accepted time spent refilling cartos before it's socially accepted to move on to RBAs without getting scolded for doing so. Not like the one will teach you any skill needed to set up the other in a safe manner.
I don't think there's any prerequisite wait time. The scolding comes in when people don't do their homework and don't take time to learn anything about coils or batteries and end up doing something stupid.
Pre-made, disposable atomizers simply lower the the learning curve by removing a variable from the equation.
That's the main reason I don't lurk in the Newbie section... and find it so hard to recommend any gear to anyone wanting to start vaping. With a lot of people you only get one chance, and if anything fails them, they will for ever sing the gospel of "vaping is rubbish".
I can't honestly recommend either cartos or clearos to anyone, since I don't like carto flavor or dealing with highly variable quality of clearos. Nor do I trust batteries I can't see, stuffed in a tube. Or chargers that make no mention of using proper charging techniques for lithium chemistries.
And I can't honestly recommend RBAs or RDAs to anyone because I know it requires research and learning a craft. So... I'm pretty much stumped when people ask where to begin. Which makes me sound like an elitist. Which I try not to be.
My best efforts so far is a couple guys I've helped get started with pyrex tanks and cartos on brand name ego batteries. If they don't mind the carto flavor, I'm all for it.
Totally agree. This is my biggest complaint. I fail to see how sucking on an Evod for 6 months got me "ready" to wind a coil. It almost feels like the people that suggest that someone else is too inexperienced to dive into rbas really just want everyone to go through the same growing pains that they themselves suffered through. And that's where this forum excels. We can tell folks how and why to do things so they don't have to suffer through the crap. Safety is hugely important and for the most part super simple. The 2 cent fuses are only 4 bucks these days and solve almost every safety concern. I know that some people love their small systems and I'm not trying to talk anyone out of them. But a two pack a day Marlboro man might need a little more and I want to help him get it
I can't say as I have noticed a dismissive or elitist or anti-newb vibe here at all. I don't see people hoarding DIY information or mods and if anything what I have seen over and over in the vape world is a cry of "there is a better way... here let me show you!".
If there is any issue that I have seen it is that when you are new at something and don't know what you are looking for it can be hard to decipher (much less communicate) what you need, so sometimes it takes a bit of time and effort to point someone in the direction that will work best for them. That is not really anyone's fault, it's an unfortunate side effect of not having the necessary vocabulary yet to express your needs. At the same time sometimes people just get so excited about and into the specifics of how they are already doing something they forgot the process of how they arrived there, and there can be a mismatch.
I have however seen some good approaches and I think it's a matter of balancing a few key points of info when you're feeling things out with someone... and this is really applicable to any new hobby or discipline:
1) how much cash are they willing to drop just to try it out?
2) do they like fiddly hobbyist things and research or do they prefer having things handed to them whole-cloth?
3) how close to what you are already familiar with do you want it to be from the get-go?
These are the things you have to find out *BEFORE* addressing specifics because they can change the answers you give them completely. Some people can (and should) be addressed from a different angle.
Vaping info exchange is ultimately about making people comfortable enough with something new in order to stop doing something really negative (but all too compelling) and if they are too frustrated by the starting point they will probably never get to the best case scenario end point of enjoyable stress free non-smoking. Luckily there's a lot of range in what is available so with a little investigative work you can start someone off on the right foot.
A person who is uncomfortable with the internet and/or internet research will probably get turned off by the idea of a group buy and would probably do better if pointed at a B&M, other people relish the idea of spending long nights at the computer digging up the best deals and most precise answer for their needs and will be frustrated at a one stop shopping approach.
Someone who wants to get as close to the analog experience as possible might not be too excited about carrying around a case full of accoutrements and looking like they're getting intimate with The Terminator, whereas someone with a spare room full of sci-fi novels, c&c materials, cannibalized computers, and soldering tools might get annoyed if you *didn't* start with the assumption that they'd be doing all their own mods and rebuilds and making their gear look as futuristic as possible.
Before you can help a person find what they need you have to find out what they are looking for.
Edit: what would be totally awesome would be a newb "choose your own adventure" style flowchart. Sadly I'm still too much of a newb to work something like that out, but just throwing that out there.
If there is any issue that I have seen it is that when you are new at something and don't know what you are looking for it can be hard to decipher (much less communicate) what you need, so sometimes it takes a bit of time and effort to point someone in the direction that will work best for them. That is not really anyone's fault, it's an unfortunate side effect of not having the necessary vocabulary yet to express your needs. At the same time sometimes people just get so excited about and into the specifics of how they are already doing something they forgot the process of how they arrived there, and there can be a mismatch.
I have however seen some good approaches and I think it's a matter of balancing a few key points of info when you're feeling things out with someone... and this is really applicable to any new hobby or discipline:
1) how much cash are they willing to drop just to try it out?
2) do they like fiddly hobbyist things and research or do they prefer having things handed to them whole-cloth?
3) how close to what you are already familiar with do you want it to be from the get-go?
These are the things you have to find out *BEFORE* addressing specifics because they can change the answers you give them completely. Some people can (and should) be addressed from a different angle.
Vaping info exchange is ultimately about making people comfortable enough with something new in order to stop doing something really negative (but all too compelling) and if they are too frustrated by the starting point they will probably never get to the best case scenario end point of enjoyable stress free non-smoking. Luckily there's a lot of range in what is available so with a little investigative work you can start someone off on the right foot.
A person who is uncomfortable with the internet and/or internet research will probably get turned off by the idea of a group buy and would probably do better if pointed at a B&M, other people relish the idea of spending long nights at the computer digging up the best deals and most precise answer for their needs and will be frustrated at a one stop shopping approach.
Someone who wants to get as close to the analog experience as possible might not be too excited about carrying around a case full of accoutrements and looking like they're getting intimate with The Terminator, whereas someone with a spare room full of sci-fi novels, c&c materials, cannibalized computers, and soldering tools might get annoyed if you *didn't* start with the assumption that they'd be doing all their own mods and rebuilds and making their gear look as futuristic as possible.
Before you can help a person find what they need you have to find out what they are looking for.
Edit: what would be totally awesome would be a newb "choose your own adventure" style flowchart. Sadly I'm still too much of a newb to work something like that out, but just throwing that out there.
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That flow chart idea is stellar. If I was more technologically inclined and was more comfortable with my own knowledge of various vapes I would be making it right now. Something like that would be a great page-one sticky in the new users section. This forum is fantastic but if I have one complaint about it, it is that the gargantuan amount of info is tough for a potential new vaper to navigate, particularly if they lack the necessary vocabulary.
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