Why certain regulations and bans make perfect sense

[Jman8]

Actually they (bans) don't make sense, and I'm strongly opposed to them, but would like to see what others think about this logic.

If reason for not vaping in public is, according to non-vapers, that it looks like smoking.
And certain vapers agree with this, that it does look like smoking and therefore should only be done where smoking is allowed.
Then wouldn't it make (equal) sense that only tobacco and menthol flavors ought to be vaped, especially in places where smoking is allowed?
For, if smoker sees that we (vapers) get to 'smoke' our flavors, but they don't get to with their product, that could be seen as blatantly disrespectful.
And since it is often brought up on vaping forums that no one wants to smell your (insert wonderful tasting vapor) flavor, then this would resolve that.

Plus, we are up against people who think only reason for flavors (other than tobacco and menthol) is to entice children into addiction to vaping/nicotine. Therefore, if thinking (ahem) logically and (cough) respectfully about these issues, vapers ought to not encourage other vapers to purchase these other flavors, even for own private use. Cause, you know, the kids and stuff.
To make this point clearer, unless you are perfectly okay and willing to contact congress people for idea that smokers ought to be afforded whatever flavors are desired to enhance a traditional cigarette, then it is patently unfair to say vapers get to have this because adults can enjoy these flavors as well, while okay that smokers can't have them because children could be enticed into addiction to smoking.

Sorry for the gaping holes in this logic as I have a tough time writing about the position that wishes to ban / restrict anything when it comes to vaping. Just hoping those (ahem) respectful types that would never ever vape where you can't smoke can follow where their argument(s) are inevitably leading the vaping community.

And so, curious what others in vaping community think about this reasoning?

 

[crxess]

Most of those people probably do not think Flavors are for enticing children. Advertising, Not Flavoring entices. Availability and easy access entice.

They simple see a in road to keep their precious power of control on track. Nothing worse than fighting to stop something you simple don't care fore and then see something else that looks the same back in your face.

I almost feel sad for them. They have gone so far in fighting the good fight they have forgotten what they were actually fighting for. So deep in fact they now have no idea of how to just enjoy life. Life for them is now all about the battle.

Okay, I'm over it. They can just bite me and STAY OFF MY LAWN! Vapers exempt.

 

[Myrany]

The only ban I think really makes sense across the board isn't even in your post. That is a ban on sales to underage people. I do think it is ridiculous that were it not for some shops stopping it in many (possibly most) places there is nothing to stop a young child from walking in a store and buying a rig and high nic juice.

 

[p.opus]

Here are the restrictions I approve of.... And nothing more...

1. Ban on selling nicotine containing e-juice to minors
2. Same advertising restrictions as exist on current tobacco products (no TV, No Radio).
3. Verification of e-juice ingredients including regular testing to ensure nicotine content verification.
4. Inspection of ejuice product and or ejuice manufacturing to ensure product is free from contamination. These regulations should be on par with current restrictions that exist on current foodstuff flavoring.
5. E-Cig hardware should be regulated only to meet current industry standards and quality for existing like components.

Other than that there should be no further restriction on the sale or use of these products unless studies are found which conclusively prove that vaping presents a significant health hazard to the user or surrounding individuals.

Government entities should establish their own guidelines to vaping on government owned propery. Vaping regulations on private property or in privately owned businesses must be regulated by the property owner/business owner themselves.

 

[holy_handgrenade]

Flavorings don't encourage kids to smoke; unless you think S'mores Vodka, Appletini's, and the myriad of sweet tasting liqours/cocktails are all for kids.

I'm also against banning the act because it "looks" like smoking. I'm only for banning it if we're willing to go so far as to outright banning all of the fog machines in public places, because, that "looks" like a LOT of smoke.

 

[p.opus]

Flavorings don't encourage kids to smoke; unless you think S'mores Vodka, Appletini's, and the myriad of sweet tasting liqours/cocktails are all for kids.

I'm also against banning the act because it "looks" like smoking. I'm only for banning it if we're willing to go so far as to outright banning all of the fog machines in public places, because, that "looks" like a LOT of smoke.

Should we ban dancing in public because it simulates intercourse?

 

[Jman8]

The only ban I think really makes sense across the board isn't even in your post. That is a ban on sales to underage people. I do think it is ridiculous that were it not for some shops stopping it in many (possibly most) places there is nothing to stop a young child from walking in a store and buying a rig and high nic juice.

Disagree with you on this. But feel it is off topic from OP and glad to discuss in PM or on another thread.

 

[Jay-dub]

Here are the restrictions I approve of.... And nothing more...

1. Ban on selling nicotine containing e-juice to minors
2. Same advertising restrictions as exist on current tobacco products (no TV, No Radio).
3. Verification of e-juice ingredients including regular testing to ensure nicotine content verification.
4. Inspection of ejuice product and or ejuice manufacturing to ensure product is free from contamination. These regulations should be on par with current restrictions that exist on current foodstuff flavoring.
5. E-Cig hardware should be regulated only to meet current industry standards and quality for existing like components.

Yep. This. Random testing and certification like on any consumable product. Regulation for the electronic components as you would with any that have a similar potential to meltdown/blow-up etc... Taxing is different for me. The reason for the tax on tobacco was to make up for the health cost to society from that habit. Unless vaping is clearly demonstrated to have an equivalent cost I don't believe it should be taxed like tobacco.

I'm not sure but I think some people are for restraining from vaping in non-smoking areas because the public is a bit behind on the subject and they'd rather not give ammunition to ignorant people to equate the two. I think some see the situation as a war of attrition and have chosen to stay off the front lines.

 

[Jman8]

I'm not sure but I think some people are for restraining from vaping in non-smoking areas because the public is a bit behind on the subject and they'd rather not give ammunition to ignorant people to equate the two. I think some see the situation as a war of attrition and have chosen to stay off the front lines.

Bolded emphasis mine - and is logic I think that fits in with why vaping ought to stick to only 2 flavors: tobacco and menthol. Having more flavors, when traditional cigarettes cannot, gives ammunition to ignorant people who equate the two.

 

[holy_handgrenade]

Should we ban dancing in public because it simulates intercourse?

So much for that 8th grade dance my niece was going to

 

[bluecat]

Bans in public places do not bother me. Basically it is about one person right to vape (insert smoke here too) vs another to be free from it. This really doesn't have anything to do with being good or bad for you.

I personally do not want to sit in a restaurant to enjoy my meal with some dude smoking or vaping near me, same with a movie/concert or what have you. I am up to the proprietor to decide.

Just wait until Colorado and Washington start getting second hand buzz complaints. That is going to be fun to watch.

 

[Steamix]

Kids get enticed by flavours all the time - BF ( aka Big Food ) is using the very same flavourings we're vaping since decades to foist nutritional nightmares unto kids everywhere. I do seem to recall that e few years ago, it's been tried to label ketchup ( which contains surprising amounts of sugar ) as 'vegetable'....

Nevertheless, any site I pass by in the EU makes it clear that they aren't selling anything to minors - so the major issue about 'protecting the children' is in place already - without any politicos needing to pass a law. So let them make a law about not selling to minors...so they can congratulate themselves for - finally - catching up with reality...

 

[mare ze dotes]

I am not much for a ban of any sort but not selling to minors seems like a reasonable idea.

 

[Notorious C.I.G.]

The only ban I think really makes sense across the board isn't even in your post. That is a ban on sales to underage people. I do think it is ridiculous that were it not for some shops stopping it in many (possibly most) places there is nothing to stop a young child from walking in a store and buying a rig and high nic juice.

I am going to be the black sheep and disagree. Although I know it's not realistic in terms of how society and media works, when I was underage I smoked cigs and I know plenty of others who did too. No different to me than a 14 year old legally allowed to buy a 5 hour energy shot.

 

[Jay-dub]

Bolded emphasis mine - and is logic I think that fits in with why vaping ought to stick to only 2 flavors: tobacco and menthol. Having more flavors, when traditional cigarettes cannot, gives ammunition to ignorant people who equate the two.

I think that one having flavors and one not actually highlights differences between the two. But I understand your point. When people bring the flavor thing up to me I ask them if they drink their coffee straight. Or if they only drink unflavored booze. Or if they just drink carbonated water instead of flavored soda. Or if they just eat plain toast with no butter or jelly. There's also a third reason that is more applicable to me. I don't always feel like explaining the same thing repeatedly day in and day out. If I don't vape at a time I want to, that's generally why. I use the 134 so I always get questions. I guess that was a bad decision. I should vape out of something that looks innocent. Maybe out of the head of a stuffed baby seal.

 

[tj99959]

What percentage of people have never vaped or smoked, and why should they want to be exposed to either? Think about that when talking about "bans".

You might want to think about being proactive when thinking about regulations. When asking for "proper regulation" we just might get regulation that help us instead of hurting.
http://fox13now.com/2013/12/14/director-of-utah-vapers-discusses-e-cigarette-regulation/

This ties in with work that the Utah Vapers did with FlavourArt in Italy from 2012 that highlights a smokers 'Right to Choose’. There IS a third choice...

 

[suspectK]

I would like spectrum analysis of liquids, not just for nicotine. Totally wicked is the only vendor I know that does that.

 

[holy_handgrenade]

I am going to be the black sheep and disagree. Although I know it's not realistic in terms of how society and media works, when I was underage I smoked cigs and I know plenty of others who did too. No different to me than a 14 year old legally allowed to buy a 5 hour energy shot.

I'd have to agree with this as well. The more I read about Nicotine, the more I'm seeing that it has the same pros/cons as caffine, which is regarded as safe. I've never seen a double caramel macchiato or that double dirty chai latte get questioned by a barista. Teenagers arent carded at Starbucks.

 

[Notorious C.I.G.]

What percentage of people have never vaped or smoked, and why should they want to be exposed to either? Think about that when talking about "bans".
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I can understand people that don't want to be exposed to cigarette smoke, but with the carcinogens and tar out of the mix with ecigs, I can't correlate that to vape. Same as calling on a ban of spray air fresheners, barbq grills, car exhaust etc. Imo, people afraid of vape are either un/misinformed or hypochondriacs.

 

[bluecat]

I'd have to agree with this as well. The more I read about Nicotine, the more I'm seeing that it has the same pros/cons as caffine, which is regarded as safe. I've never seen a double caramel macchiato or that double dirty chai latte get questioned by a barista. Teenagers arent carded at Starbucks.

You do realize very low mg e-liquid can kill a child even if they get it on their skin.

Nicotine is a poison. Do not lose track of that.