Why E ciggaretts is not been studied probably ?? what effects and side effects does it cause to our body? is it safer than regular cigs??

[R1ppy]

PG's wiki page goes over how Propylene glycol was fully tested on ingestion and inhalation in the 40's... This is why the FDA has approved it as a food additive and VG as an additive in beauty and medical products. They know what it is they know what it does they don't want to test it effectively and publicly though cause then they wouldn't be able to say "oh PG is used in antifreeze" so idiot people will assume it would be as healthy as inhaling antifreeze.

PG has a very low freezing temp due to it's natural compound build up so naturally it would be a cheap and effective substance to use to cut the other chemicals with used in antifreeze. Don't know how the FDA could indirectly tell people that they might as well continue to puff on something proven to kill you because there may be some elements of smoking vapor that's not healthy or there might not be, it's just too unimportant of a thing to bother testing...

 

[markmcs]

Do you think Dr. Sami missed his 8:00 meds????? He seems a little cranky! Have a nice day, elsewhere, sami!

 

[DocWyatt]

The thread "may" have been from a doctor. It would not surprise me in the least. Why? They are "trained". Corruption is at the education level even for the most well meaning doctor.

 

[proudlion]

the "Doctor" lost me at: ciggaretts

 

[illuxion]

Do some reading Sami Combustion versus Vaporization | The Electronic Cigarette & E-Cigarettes by Instead instead of arguing(some great links to read at the bottom too), also scouring the forums for other subjective opinions would work better than troll fodder such as this thread. Answering the initial questions were easy enough but the "this could happen, that might happen, do you feel this" psycho-paranoia is just too much. E-diagnoses are best best left to acquiring identification cards for herbal medication and for pet meds. I do honestly understand the inquisitiveness about the subject, but I don't understand not doing any prior research and then seeming to develop an acute case of impacted cranial rectitus.

 

[CJ in VA]

Yeah, that got me too, he started out sounding arab with broken english, mis-spellings and all and then today he's got our American slang down pat and spelling was perfect (almost). Bizarre.

 

[DocWyatt]

Personally, I think he was a doctor. That is the concerning part. As I have said their brain is trained.... and it is trained by those who pay for it to be trained. Those paying for that training are not the consumers...they are corporations and academics with a paid agenda.... Not good.

 

[hairball]

Here's some more information for you Dr. FDA stated that they found the same chemicals in 2 samples that they tested as what is in cigarettes. What they didn't say was that they both were from a China vendor and that 10 samples were actually tested. The other 8 had no chemicals other than what was stated. These samples were all considered safe. FDA also didn't tell people that the patch, gum, and other Dr. prescribed drugs have the same chemicals in it. The doctor who strictly studies tobacco for the FDA (I can't think of his name at the moment) submitted a report to them stating that the ecig was a much safer alternative to cigarettes. Why did the FDA not use it? Simple...it all has to do with money and control. FDA could care less about our health. Ask any electronic cigarette user how the feel versus what they felt like while smoking. You will always get the same answer. We use these simply to get our nicotine without all the other crap to go with it.

 

[markmcs]

If that guy was a doctor, I'm Bill Gates!
He did pick up the language pretty quick though, huh?

 

[DocWyatt]

Well Hairball, money and control are the same thing. Regulation is the enemy of free enterprise for a reason. It artificially eliminates competition. In my view the biggest benefactor of regulation are corporations. They require it to maintain their margins. So while they may moan in public - they HAVE to have it.

Think of a world of no regulation and every corporation had to compete against 10's of thousands of small companies. How many would fail? The answer is - most.

 

[hairball]

Well Hairball, money and control are the same thing. Regulation is the enemy of free enterprise for a reason. It artificially eliminates competition. In my view the biggest benefactor of regulation are corporations. They require it to maintain their margins. So while they may moan in public - they HAVE to have it.

I was speaking in terms of lost revenue by big tobacco companies. Control by the government telling us, yet again, what we can and can't do. Yes, they do go hand in hand.

 

[DocWyatt]

I was agreeing with you. They HAVE to have regulation or they cannot survive - like most corporations.

The logical comedy of a corporation is that the very structure is socialist. Central power and authority. Power corrupts. The reason for massive CEO pay. It is literally the exact same structure as a socialist government....scary, lol.

 

[hairball]

I was agreeing with you. They HAVE to have regulation or they cannot survive - like most corporations.

The logical comedy of a corporation is that the very structure is socialist. Central power and authority. Power corrupts. The reason for massive CEO pay. It is literally the exact same structure as a socialist government....scary, lol.

I agree there and so do many others. Yet people just go with the flow, saying that that is just the way it is.

FDA is nothing but a bunch of overpaid people sitting around a table telling us that ecigs are dangerous. Then they tell you to go have a cigarette. I just don't get it. Yes, they should have regulation concerning selling to minors and what the liquid is actually composed of. However, I thought this was a free country, and as an adult, I feel it is my right to choose whether I want to smoke or vape.

 

[mle]

Ok - first off I'd like to say that regardless of whether or not the OP is or is not a legitimate MD, I think his questions (for the most part) are questions that many people have. People know that smoking is bad for them, but we aren't entirely sure what vaping is doing to our bodies (especially in the long term).

If he IS with ALA or has some anti-PV agenda, so what? As was mentioned in an earlier post, there are plenty of posts on ECF from which he could gather this info anyways. If he is in fact a legitimate doctor with the intent of conducting a study, wouldn't that be a good thing? Wouldn't having scientific proof to use against PV haters be a plus?

The last thing I wanted to point out is that people seem to be assuming that nicotine has no harmful effect if it isn't being smoked. I recently took a pharmacology class, and the text book lists arteriosclerosis, myocardial infarctions, and coronary heart disease among the effects of nicotine on the body. It does not list those as side effects of smoking, but effects of nicotine in general. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

[DocWyatt]

Well, as an adult you are free to choose what you wish - unless you vote for people that make rules that say you can't. People dramatically underestimate socialism. The uneducated see it as a method for wealth redistribution. They would be very,very wrong.

 

[hairball]

The last thing I wanted to point out is that people seem to be assuming that nicotine has no harmful effect if it isn't being smoked. I recently took a pharmacology class, and the text book lists arteriosclerosis, myocardial infarctions, and coronary heart disease among the effects of nicotine on the body. It does not list those as side effects of smoking, but effects of nicotine in general. Just wanted to put that out there.

Yes, we know that nicotine does have side effects. What people are saying, and myself as well, is that ecigs are a much safer alternative than conventional cigarettes. There are side effects to just about everything that you ingest including the water you drink. I would rather gamble with the health issues stated above, than all the added health issues associated with smoking.

 

[t9c]

Whew! Just read this whole crazy post.

Did anyone else think it was just weird that in Dr. Sami's early replies to repliers he was giving them medical advice? Of course he would always follow with, "ask your own doctor".

That raised the flag with me early on. MD's know better than getting on public forums and giving ANY type of medical advice. Period.

Real doctor? No.

my 2c

 

[salliezoo]

If that guy was a doctor, I'm Bill Gates!
He did pick up the language pretty quick though, huh?

Well, he certainly did go off in a huff didn't he? And yep, I did notice his english improve. How odd. Well, if it helps anyone, or if you care, my MD husband is a vaper after 50 years of smoking analogs (and me after 40). And while no one knows for sure what the long term effects of ecigs will be, he definitely knows the chances of improved health and a longer life are far better than the alternative. And no, it doesn't take a medical degree to figure that out. But I was glad to hear that from someone who was actually capable of wading thru and interpreting the current literature on the various components that go into an ecig. Speaking for myself, some of the medical lingo makes for tough going in some of those studies, at least without a Merck manual or a medical dictionary glued to your fingertips, LOL!

But certainly in his personal research and his discussions with fellow physicians of varying specialties (eg cardiology, neurology, pulmonology, epidemiology, etc), there is good scientific reason at this point to be optimistic. All I know at this point for sure is that its working. No analogs for either of us in over 3 months...and we're still on speaking terms. That in itself, is a miracle. The same couldn't be said for any other smoking cessation product or program out there. Its a risk I'm willing to make. But then, each person has to make that determination for themselves.

 

[DocWyatt]

Well, I found it initially odd to only respond to those that had problems and refused to answer my questions. However, I think he was just someone not viewing this logically and why I tried to point that out.


But this is like trying to look at the forest with many engineers. They are great at dissecting each tree. Try to have a conversation with many about the forest and not a particular tree....good luck.

 

[hairball]

In my opinion, I think he was looking for something negative to go on about.