Why hasn't my mech exploded?

[Violetti Usva]

TL;DR: Obviously I don't want my mech to explode on me. I used a 0.07Ohm build on a mech for a few days (having measured it with a faulty device) and haven't had my mech heat up, the batteries seem fine and my face hasn't been destroyed by an explosion. How is this possible?


I had a regulated device that stopped firing but was still "reading" coils so I figured I could still use that device as an ohm meter whilst waiting for an actual ohmmeter to arrive. One of my builds read 0.3 ohms so I figured it was safe and was happily vaping away for a few days until the ohmmeter came through.

Firstly, I built something on my merlin mini and it measured to 0.2 ohms. I looked at the pin and decided I should probably put the 510 cap thing on my mod, even though the pin does technically protrude a little, just to be on the safe side. I then proceeded to remeasure the first build using the ohmmeter, just out of curiosity. When completely screwed in it doesn't read at all. In fact, neither of my devices with long-protruding pins read when fully screwed in, I don't understand why. Ever so slightly undone however, this coil read 0.07ohms...which would produce 60Amps at 4.2V - hell, 42ishA when the battery is down to 3V, which is still way above the 30A rating of my batteries.

Naturally, I removed the coil immediately and built something much safer. Just kidding, my life is expendable. I put a fully charged battery in there, vaped for a few minutes and popped the battery out to see if it was getting hot - the mech itself wasn't - and the battery was pretty chill. Obviously, I changed the coil before taking the device outside as I don't want to harm anyone undeserving. With all the talk of how dangerous mech mods are I'm surprised at, well, how not dangerous this seemed to be. How/why are my batteries fine with this?

 

[BackDoc]

Blind Luck?, remind me to stay away from you on the 4th of july

 

[AzPlumber]

Sounds like the ohm reader might be a little wonky, what was the coil build, gauge, #wraps, id and wire type?

 

[Violetti Usva]

I used two spools of prebuilt clapton wire, kanthal and SS316L respectively, but the writing on each spool saying what gauges they are made from has faded a long time ago. 3.5mm inner diameter for each coil, 5 wraps of the SS316L clapton with 4 wraps of the kanthal clapton in between. A lot of people say that this much wire mass on a mech leads to too much ramp up time but the residual heat between hits means that each hit gets hotter than the last, revealing a slightly different flavour profile, which is rather enjoyable to say the least.

 

[KenD]

It's not common for cells to explode instantly even they're over stressed, but you have probably damaged them somewhat. That is, if the coil was actually 0.07. Don't get too trusting just because it all went ok this time.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[Ben85]

Don’t be fooled into thinking this is now a safe method of vaping because nothing happened this time. In short - you got away with it this time.

Also, batteries don’t have to build up with heat to then explode. A short can cause instant venting. The second you knew that build was too low you should have stopped immediately. The fact that you didn’t shows your naivety and lack of understanding around mechs. No experienced user would have found a build reading that low and then try it for a bit longer to see what happens.

In the future, run your build through steam engine and then test on on ohm reader afterwards to check your results are correct.

 

[Violetti Usva]

It does not show my lack of understanding nor naivety - it shows my lack of self preservation. I found steam engine and vape tool pro don't deal well with more complex builds so I often build something that looks tasty and then measure it to see if it is actually usable. If it initially showed 0.07ohms (or anything that would produce more than 25A at 4.2V, even though I'm using 30A batteries) I would have chucked it in the bin and come up with something else.

I've put a recent build in the ohm meter and my broken smok alien - 0.34 according to the ohm meter and 0.72 according to the alien. I dug out an old, but unused, coil for the baby beast which said 0.2Ohms on the coil and measured 0.36 on the alien and 0.11 on the ohm meter. I'm returning the ohm meter today and have ordered a more expensive replacement in the hopes that price roughly correlates with quality. I think it may have answered my conundrum, as if one device is reading too high and the other too low then perhaps the "0.07" build was slightly higher in resistance than the meter indicated. Not happy with the fact that an ohm meter, bought to keep me relatively safe, has actually put me more at risk >.<

 

[Ben85]

It does not show my lack of understanding nor naivety - it shows my lack of self preservation. I found steam engine and vape tool pro don't deal well with more complex builds so I often build something that looks tasty and then measure it to see if it is actually usable. If it initially showed 0.07ohms (or anything that would produce more than 25A at 4.2V, even though I'm using 30A batteries) I would have chucked it in the bin and come up with something else.

I've put a recent build in the ohm meter and my broken smok alien - 0.34 according to the ohm meter and 0.72 according to the alien. I dug out an old, but unused, coil for the baby beast which said 0.2Ohms on the coil and measured 0.36 on the alien and 0.11 on the ohm meter. I'm returning the ohm meter today and have ordered a more expensive replacement in the hopes that price roughly correlates with quality. I think it may have answered my conundrum, as if one device is reading too high and the other too low then perhaps the "0.07" build was slightly higher in resistance than the meter indicated. Not happy with the fact that an ohm meter, bought to keep me relatively safe, has actually put me more at risk >.<

However you want to word it, you shouldn’t have put that build on a mech once you knew it was that low.

 

[sonicbomb]

If you drop a knife on your foot, at least some of the time it won't stick in.

 

[stols001]

I don't think if you know yet if its the ohms reader.

I'm not happy with the fact that you checked something that read as unsafe, and then immediately vaped it to test it. I mean.... Until you figure out if it's the ohms reader or YOU, you should have stopped vaping it. Blame the ohms reader if you want, but that won't help you much if your mech explodes in your hand.

Self-destructive isn't a good look on anyone. It's not "living life on the edge" it's a lack of interest in your own self-preservation. I feel bad that your self-esteem is so low that you seemingly don't care (other than blaming the ohm's reader).

Come on, now.

Anna

 

[Baditude]

I'm returning the ohm meter today and have ordered a more expensive replacement in the hopes that price roughly correlates with quality. I think it may have answered my conundrum, as if one device is reading too high and the other too low then perhaps the "0.07" build was slightly higher in resistance than the meter indicated. Not happy with the fact that an ohm meter, bought to keep me relatively safe, has actually put me more at risk.

I've worked in a vape shop in the past. We sold those cheapo ohm readers for around $10. One time we measured the same coil with three different readers and got three different readings. They could be off by 0.2 ohms. When people are building in the tenths and hundreths of an ohm, and 0.00 is a hard short, they're working in a very narrow grey area.

For people who build so low, very few take into consideration that their ohm reader might be off...by a lot. Even the Fluke multimeters (for around $2000 or more) need to be routinely recalibrated to maintain their precision and accuracy. And so many put their faith into a $10 ohm reader.

This is why we recommend building with a Margin of Safety. I never build lower than 0.6 ohm using a 20 amp battery.

So you're using 30 amp batteries? Do I dare ask which ones?

 

[bombastinator]

Have you tried sticking it in a microwave? That should be near guaranteed to take out both the vape and the microwave.... though perhaps I have misconstrued intent here

 

[BackDoc]

It does not show my lack of understanding nor naivety - it shows my lack of self preservation. I found steam engine and vape tool pro don't deal well with more complex builds so I often build something that looks tasty and then measure it to see if it is actually usable. If it initially showed 0.07ohms (or anything that would produce more than 25A at 4.2V, even though I'm using 30A batteries) I would have chucked it in the bin and come up with something else.

I've put a recent build in the ohm meter and my broken smok alien - 0.34 according to the ohm meter and 0.72 according to the alien. I dug out an old, but unused, coil for the baby beast which said 0.2Ohms on the coil and measured 0.36 on the alien and 0.11 on the ohm meter. I'm returning the ohm meter today and have ordered a more expensive replacement in the hopes that price roughly correlates with quality. I think it may have answered my conundrum, as if one device is reading too high and the other too low then perhaps the "0.07" build was slightly higher in resistance than the meter indicated. Not happy with the fact that an ohm meter, bought to keep me relatively safe, has actually put me more at risk >.<

I find it funny that you state that the Ohm Meter has put you at risk...........i think "you" have put yourself at risk honestly

 

[Violetti Usva]

Yes, *I* put myself at risk. I also put myself at risk injecting drugs once or twice a year, self-harming, working with radiation almost daily, or even just getting in a car etc. etc. I wouldn't however, inject someone else with drugs, cut someone else's chest to pieces, throw radiolabelled drugs in someones face or use an unsafe mod in public where someone other than me could be harmed. Everything has inherent risks and its up to an individual to decide whether the risks outweigh the benefits or vice versa and provided they/I act in accordance with the harm principle, who cares? The 30A limit is for continuous discharge - small pulses can exceed that and whilst it's certainly safer to stick to the 30A limit, its not an invisible line that rips your face off the second you overstep slightly. Glad people are at least being polite with their piss taking.

Having been using it for a few days (whilst thinking it was safe based on initial measurements) with no ill effects I figured I was within the limits of what *I* consider safe to do one little test of vaping and then feeling the batteries directly to see if they had heated up. I then made a safer coil and a thread asking a question because my results confused me. If no one took risks then scientific understanding would be miles behind and if people weren't skeptical of what they're told is a risk then we'd all be very superstitious.

I've worked in a vape shop in the past. We sold those cheapo ohm readers for around $10. One time we measured the same coil with three different readers and got three different readings. They could be off by 0.2 ohms. When people are building in the tenths and hundreths of an ohm, and 0.00 is a hard short, they're working in a very grey area.

For people who build so low, very few take into consideration that their ohm reader might be off...by a lot. Even the Fluke multimeters (for around $2000 or more) need to be routinely recalibrated to maintain their precision and accuracy.

So you're using 30 amp batteries? May I ask which ones?

I'm using Sony VTC somethings, I can't remember precisely which, just that I spent a while trawling through Mooch's reports on batteries before deciding what batteries to buy. Rather scary that these devices aren't as accurate as their "precision" led me to believe (i.e. +/- 0.005ohms as its a 2d.p. device). I have never intentionally used a coil below 0.2 ohms on a mech other than this occasion, but now I'm wondering if perhaps even that is too low a safety margin to allow myself to use a mech in company.

 

[Baditude]

I'm using Sony VTC somethings, I can't remember precisely which...I have never intentionally used a coil below 0.2 ohms on a mech other than this occasion, but now I'm wondering if perhaps even that is too low a safety margin to allow myself to use a mech in company.

The only Sony VTC battery that has a 30 amp CDR is the VTC3 1500mah. Is that the one you use?

Sony 18659VTC6 3000mAh 15/20 amp CDR*

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC3 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

I never build lower than 0.6 ohm for a 20 amp battery. That is my margin of safety. Unlike yourself, I have had a battery explode in a mech.

Everyone is free to set their own parameters, and I can only say what mine are.

I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20A batteries, that would be 10A. An Ohm's Law Calculator tells me that a .4 ohm build is as low as I would want to use.

The reason that I place a 50% limit is because as a battery ages (or is misused) the mAh of the battery degrades, as the mAh degrades so does the batteries c rating (amp limit). So down the road, your 20A battery may only be a 10A battery.

 

[stols001]

Well, since you value your own well-being so little as demonstrated, why bother sharing your results.

I don't think you should vape your mech in company, I agree with that. You also went on and on about how you knew your mech stuff, followed up by "VCsomethings." So you don't even know your batteries?

I am going to hope, for the people that care about you, that you start valuing your own life the same rate that you seem to value other people's, but that's an inside job. Good luck.

No one was making fun of you, by the way. You may find some humor in it, but it's not actually good for YOU, good for vaping generally, or just, you know, humanity in general that this is your approach to.... mechs, specifically, and as you demonstrated, life generally.

Anna

 

[Violetti Usva]

Those would be the ones, I bought 3 to keep on a rotation for my mech. They're still relatively new but due to this little fiasco I expect they probably have a lower CDR than 30A as you've said. It suddenly occurs to me I picked SS in order to try out TC and have generally stuck to using it for no other reason than its what I've always used.

stols, I believe the comment telling me to put my mod in a microwave was taking the piss, or at least hope they aren't seriously trying to convince someone they don't know to kill themselves - but maybe part of my problem is assuming that people have good intentions. I'm bad at remembering letter/number combinations but that does not reflect my knowledge of battery safety - I have the same problem remembering the names of proteins but that doesn't reflect my understanding of their functions. Just means I have to check before telling someone the wrong string of nonsense letters. Lack of self-esteem/preservation etc...well, my therapist would certainly agree, but they've never been necessary for my life-goal.

 

[Ben85]

Those would be the ones, I bought 3 to keep on a rotation for my mech. They're still relatively new but due to this little fiasco I expect they probably have a lower CDR than 30A as you've said. It suddenly occurs to me I picked SS in order to try out TC and have generally stuck to using it for no other reason than its what I've always used.

stols, I believe the comment telling me to put my mod in a microwave was taking the piss, or at least hope they aren't seriously trying to convince someone they don't know to kill themselves - but maybe part of my problem is assuming that people have good intentions. I'm bad at remembering letter/number combinations but that does not reflect my knowledge of battery safety - I have the same problem remembering the names of proteins but that doesn't reflect my understanding of their functions. Just means I have to check before telling someone the wrong string of nonsense letters. Lack of self-esteem/preservation etc...well, my therapist would certainly agree, but they've never been necessary for my life-goal.

When you say “those would be the ones” what ones are you saying you have?

 

[Baditude]

Those would be the ones,

When you say “those would be the ones” what ones are you saying you have?

The green ones, Silly.

 

[Ben85]

The green ones, Silly.

Well that was my concern