Why Vaping won't ever convert the masses (of smokers)

[Zutankhamun]

Oh yeah. I don't like the pending legal issues obviously. Yet, I kinda enjoy how this particular hoppy is quite select for the moment. I know that makes me a bad person but come what may.
edit: Need to make that clearer. Obviously I sign every petition. I hope that vaping eventually becomes the norm. I try and do my bit but just saying I look on the brightside and enjoy it as it is.

 

[Lessifer]

I use a mechanical mod with an RDA, which admittedly is advanced gear. However, I spend an average of 1 hour a month on maintenance. The last time I wrapped a coil was over a month ago, I change my wick maybe once a week. The rest is charging batteries and filling juice bottles.

I enjoyed reading your replies. You raise some good points, and I did exaggerate a tad

Having said that, I still believe that at any level of vaping, be it the plug and play right up to fully customized mods, there is always more work and knowledge involved than the user anticipates there will be. As giving up smoking is so important, I am disappointed that some people, people who lack patience for example, won't stick with it.

And to the person who said no-one had ever died using an ecig, well technically not whilst using it, but an ecig explosion that caused a chain reaction DID in fact kill someone. While the media may tend to sensationalize such stories, it isn't to say they don't happen. And there are a lot of them, as the list I'm about to post a link to, attests.

Can all of you HONESTLY say all of these incidents were due to carelessness on the user's part, and not due to faulty equipment? Faulty equipment that any one of us could be using right now? If that's the case then when we go for one more hit of vanilla-cherry on our trusty old ego, we have no idea it's suddenly morphed into a Beretta, and is about to effectively end the life we have known all of our life, be it by permanent disfigurement, disability or even death? This is my point about safety standards.

And if the people ARE to blame because of their own negligence, isn't the price they have paid too steep even for that? I've bought stuff from e-cig stores and the part-time staff there with their egos on lanyards round their next don't even stress the simple fact that, "yeah, you know those fifty gazillion usb wall plugs you got lying around the house for old phones you had. Yeah, don't use any of them for this. Srsly dude". My god, it should be painted on the walls, booming from every speaker. It should at least be as carefully and seriously reminded to the consumer as much as real cigarettes' cancer warnings on their packets are. People OFTEN DO use the wrong charger for their phones, but phones are made to higher quality standards, and I doubt you'll find a list as comprehensive as this regarding them.

Tinkering is all well and good, but after reading this list, the difference between being 'absolutely certain' you know what you're doing, and 'being confident and doing what you're more or less certain is correct' could make the difference between a more satisfying hit and waking up without a face in the morning. Couple that with the fact that hardware quality issues aren't working in tandem with your fortune, and it's a risky game to play.

Anyway, here's the list.
E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List - eCig One

I'd say at least 90% of the explosions are due to user error, using the wrong gear/battery combination, and almost always on a mech, all of which would be considered "advanced gear."

Well I don't think I was exaggerating there, as I was posing the question to you. If you read my post more carefully you'll see that.

I asked whether you all felt that these incidents were down to what you claim to be 'basic' battery safety? No faulty batteries, then? Or mods? Just incompetent users, who have failed to demonstrate battery safety? Every....single....one?

I remain, for the most part, unconvinced...

[EDIT] For example, does 'basic' battery safety now include, as common knowledge to the masses, not to buy Efest batteries?? Just sayin'.

With a regulated device, the most common problem, that would result in a fire and not an explosion, is incorrect charging. Yes, that's also user error, but the manufacturers can help. Almost all chargers have their current ratings on them, as do most wall warts, if you choose to ignore that(or don't know to look at that) that is on you. You should also never charge batteries unattended, I know plenty of people do, but again, that is on them.

One point I'd neglected to mention, regarding the list (oh and if there's anyone wanting to read it, as posting it seemed to lose the URL, just google the exact phrase) and that is that the most common 'cause' for every one of these events, as attested by the compiler of the list and, I'm guessing, every one of yourselves, is that the user (dumb as they must have been) failed to use the correct charger with the device.

This seemed a bit vague to me, so let me elaborate...

If it's an ego, then it will have one end with a screwthread, and the other a regular usb plug.
For box mods, in general, it will be a regular usb to micro usb cable.

Okay then, so that leave the direct to wall component....

"The users weren't using the charger supplied with the device"

Riiiight. So who'd like to tell me first which device comes with a wall plug? Some may, but I know for a fact Kanger Evods don't. I know for a fact that Cool Fire IVs don't. I know for a fact Subox Mini's don't..

So what, then, is the correct wall plug for these devices. Because it's kinda important I know, seeing as in your opinion, EVERY ONE OF THESE EXPLOSIONS WAS CAUSED BY SOMEONE JUST GETTING THIS ONE DETAIL WRONG. Answers appreciated! Don't waste time though, don't want to be on a ventilator by the time I'm reading them.

Also are we to assume that a regular USB to mini-USB is cool to use with a box mod? Or are the bundled cables special voltage resistant iggimajig? Should we be researching USB specifications, getting an electrician out to see if our home voltage is 'spiking'? Any other considerations regular smokers should deem as common knowledge? On top of their complete and total affinity with batteries, ofc.

You seem confused about your details, explosions come from hard shorts. Fires come from incorrect chargers. I know it's not PC to blame the "victim" in today's society, but when your issue could have been avoided by learning about what you're using, that actually IS your fault.

I think the biggest problem smokers have with vaping is that its not smoking and even with vaping quitting tobacco takes a lot of effort.

This, vaping is NOT smoking, no one said it would be as easy.

Actually though, if you want to keep it as simple as smoking, use disposables. There are some good disposables out there, they're just expensive. That's why people don't tend to use them for long, they cost too much. So, if you want to save money, you go to MORE ADVANCED GEAR, and every time you advance there is necessary learning involved. If you neglect that learning, it really is on you.

I started with disposables, and I stopped smoking. I knew it would be too expensive, so I looked into a rechargeable/refillable kit, and got an ego/ce4. I used that for months and continued to not smoke. I got tired of buying replacement clearos/heads, and knowing that my batteries would eventually stop working so I looked into more advanced gear. I bought a vamo and batteries, after researching how to use them properly, and bought a rebuildable tank and an RDA. My vamo lasted about 6 months before it died, so I wanted to find something that wouldn't die, so I looked into mechs and did my homework.

It's all about choices. You can keep it simple, but it usually costs more. If you choose to advance your gear, you have to advance your knowledge. Simple.

As for china gear, there is good china gear and bad china gear. If you always go for the cheapest one, that's what you'll usually get, in price and quality.

 

[devilzrox]

So....I guess...if there is a silver lining to any of this, it's that a lot of the explosions seem to happen in the UK. Given my desire to one day move to the UK and from what I hear, the outrageous housing prices, the thing to do is to is to some how come up with a real estate program like Zillow that monitors for and gives you notices of the names and addresses where the owner has been involved in an ecig explosion. Might be able to get a sweet deal if the owner, God rest his soul, isn't going to need the house anymore. (Yes, even I am appalled and amused by my own outrageous selfishness sometimes)

Sadly I live in the UK. I hope it's just a case of an abundance of less than cautious types, and not faulty stock.

To that end, I use the correct chargers (obviously) and charge everything while I'm conscious and present until they are ready, on a roof tile made of slate so it doesn't come into contact with any warm surface, flat down with ego batts, upright with the boxes.

The biggest reason a lot of smokers will not try it is public perception and a poor public image of vapers. Take a moment and do a Google search for vape meme's, you will see many negative connotations of vapers from the "yeah, we get, you vape" type comments, to meme's that imply vapers are effeminate and on the extreme, actually implying that vapers are homosexual. There is a very real cultural backlash towards vaping.

Tell me about it... 2013 was my finest year. I quit smoking for the first time, got my first Ego Twist starter kit, loved it, used disposable clearomizers all the time. The key thing about that year was that I'd been used to going outside to smoke analogs since the UK smoking ban in 2007, but now I was blowing plumes of vape to my heart's content without having to join the tar-stinking huddle outside in the rain. This was the future. We'd all vape. It would be like the ban had never happened, but we'd be all squeaky clean. What a wonderful world it was going to be.

But then, as you said, the health organisations got their paws over it, and governments were afraid of losing highly taxable tobacco. And so it began, from casual stories in tabloids until the national news were replete with stories of this 'new and deadlier demon'. Within months, the first indoor vaping bans started and I got sick of new bars coming up to me to ask me to 'take it outside'. I did try vaping outside (amongst the tar-stinking huddle.... no one else seemed to vape) but felt kinda stupid... To me it was like being asked to go outside to breathe, etc. And then the final straw, friends who never smoked who had remained neutral on vaping were suddenly buying into whatever the media told them, they too asked me to go outside when I vaped with lousy excuses like "it's not me, it's my wife, she says it makes the house smell". Yeah. Of ....ing cherries, you idiot.

So in the end, tired of being the only one going outside to vape (to this day I've never encountered another while I'm outside, puffing) I ended up back on the analogues on a drinky night out. I'm still that way now, but at least I'm 100% vape at home. This I plan to change, though, now I've got my new Coolfire IV. I'm going to get back into taking it out with me, going outside to use it, w/e, but getting off the real cancer sticks for good. I'm also really pleased with my Innokin SubApex tank that (finally) will allow me to refill the tank from above, which will make it so much easier as my dedicated 'field unit'. My leaky Subox will remain my home hitter, it can piss out wherever it wants and I'll just move back to pre-built coils once I've used up my stash of cotton.

I'd say at least 90% of the explosions are due to user error, using the wrong gear/battery combination, and almost always on a mech, all of which would be considered "advanced gear."

I'm curious what these mechanical mods are like? I'm certainly not planning to get one, as they do seem to be the kind that are more likely to be unfriendly if you're less than vigilant with them (going from the list, which I will cease referring to after this). Do they give a better hit? Use less power? Simple answers please

 

[Hitmetwice]

No, but it depends.
No, but it......
Cheers.

 

[evan le'garde]

Here's the thing.

You'll flame me. You'll say TL;DR...

But there's a number of points I need to get off my chest...

I love vaping, by the way. I still have the occasional analog (crazy term but still). I've recently got into sub-ohm vaping because:

1. My ....ty ego batts and clearomisers were just, well, crap.
2. I 'accidentally' bought a Kanger Subox Mini

So as you see, I never planned for subohm, I just got a box mod as basically a better vaping device, as someone who might upgrade from a Ford Focus to a BMW 3 series.

Then problems started occurring, which made me realize that for all the bad longevity of the ego, they were, at least, maintenance-free. Now I was trying to fix leaks, taking pieces apart, re-wicking coils. I needed to set aside a mini workshop in my home just for the maintenance. To the forums, I thought. Surely no-one else has to put in this much effort just to vape, right?

Wrong. You all do, but more surprisingly, you all seem to love it. Rather like if you drive a car, as most of us do, but have little technical knowledge about it, and how we occasionally venture to a car forum. You'll often hear people saying "oh it's the rear axle manifold, but it's easy to do yourself. You just blah, blah, blah". Fine if you have the time, an empty garage, etc, etc. Fine if you love fixing up cars, right.

But with smoking, I never 'loved' smoking, not the concept at least. I just had to smoke. I didn't go around with paraphanlia dedicated to smoking, prosletyzing ways of keeping tobacco fresher or going to smoking conventions. I just smoked. Now of course 'some' smokers are like this, but the majority aren't.

Vaping, sadly, is a steep learning curve for the non-initiated, and whereas I expect most of you to disagree with me, I feel there is a silent majority who may stumble across boards like this, read diagrams of how to convert pi's theorum of fibonacci numbers so you get the right balance between 'balancing your ohms' and causing the device to blow a hole in your face (more on that in a bit), that I bet most people who have lives, but who happen to smoke in them, just think, "erm... okay. I think I'll stick with smoking then".

When I tell friends that I've managed to give up, but talk about RBAs and introducing liquid into Japanese Cotton through a dropper, they glaze over and say "wow, you must really love vaping then". Thing is I don't. I wanted something to replace regular cigarettes, not a 24/7 craft hobby.

My fear is, even though most of you will vehemently defend your love of tinkering, eternally pursuing that perfect 'hit', I am right in saying that a lot of people will just find it too much effort, that even a working piece of kit will fail after a few weeks unless you learn about maintenance, cleaning and a lot of stuff I could do without.

Then there's the whole safety thing...

I preached for months to friends (and even strangers) that were smokers and non-smokers alike, telling them there was this new thing that allowed you to feel like you were smoking but was PERFECTLY SAFE. There were a lot of nay-sayers, let me tell you, but I won through for the most part in that I argued that however bad these eliquids could be, could they really be worse than the contents of a real cigarette (or analog, w/e)?

Unfortunately it was never the liquid we should have feared. It was the hardware.

The fundamental problem with all e-cigarettes, the ones that 'do the job' correctly, the flaw that will always be the thorn in it's size.

...is China.

You may call me racist, I have nothing against the Chinese. But let's put the cards on the table. They aren't known globally for their standards. You read stories every day about people dying over there, or being horrifically injured by machinery that has failed or gone awry due to their poor (or non-existant) safety standards.

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

So then I was on another forum, or maybe it was this one, I don't know, and someone posted a list of e-cigarette accidents...

Now bear in mind this isn't like "singed an eyebrow" type ..... This is like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling through events and then realizing you are still in April 2016, casually looking at the scroll bar on the right, not being able to see it, then seeing a pixel-wide line, still close to the top of the screen.

But not all these incidents are bad, right? For this list to be so long. Right?

Kinda. It reads sorta like.

1. 3rd degree burns on leg, scarred for life
2. 3rd degree burns on arm, scarred for life
3. Entire front teeth blown out, scarred for life.

Ah but that's not too bad right

4. Child loses eye while staff DEMONSTRATE an ecig to him at a mall.

HE'S NOT EVEN BOUGHT THE ....ING THING YET!

Aha, but before you rebut, I already know what you're going to say. It will echo the comments that usually follow news stories like this.

"Ah yeah but I bet he was using a calibrated mechanical with a dripper with a non-compatible 510 without calculating his ohm resistance using pythagoras' equation of Lancelot's Diversion and failed to think about the solar flare activity that day. ....ing noob."

Yeah he probably was. ....ing noob is right. In fact is there another hobby that people can just wander into, with so many self-proclaimed experts, that can be so cruel to the uninitiated? Failing DIY base-jumping, that is?

The point I'm trying to make is if vaping now is so fraught with potential danger, and it's necessary to have a certain amount (oh, who are we kidding, quite a reasonable amount) of knowledge about the subject, what not to do, etc, then how can it hope to attract smokers that weren't tobacco-fetishists, you know, the normal, everyday people who just happened to smoke.

I mean I used to enjoy smoking most when I was drunk. Now I can't dare vape if I'm drunk. What if I need to change a coil mid-way? Well not too much, as I have that 'reasonable' degree of knowledge. But what about first-timers? Maybe those bomb disposal outfits that armies have should come with?

But the worst thing has to be the elitism I've found amongst the most hard-core vapers on forums. They will offer no sympathy to the uninitiated, and resent people who just want to get on with things without any effort (you know, like regular smoking) and try to either tell them they should invest more of their time to achieve what used to be so simple, and then shunning said questioner if they point out that they don't have the time, the willpower, etc.

Oh yeah, when I bought my Subox, the site in question said on the order page "this doesn't come with a battery... it needs THIS battery... would you like to buy THIS battery from us as well as the boxmod?"

I said "sure, why not". It came. I charged it. I used it. Then there was a product recall about two weeks later. "Buy this one from us" they now said. "okay, I said".

They sent me an E Fest 18650. You know, the kind that are now generally known as being slightly more stable than carrying around a pack of C4 in a bag full of hammers...

So yeah, had to become an expert in batteries now too. Just so I could scour forums, spend hours on search engines trying to find which battery wouldn't take a limb from me, or knock a six inch hole into my neighbor's house. No really. I'm loving this new hobby.

In fact I'm looking forward to the next part. Maybe my tanks are leaking because they're plastic? .... it, lemme learn glass blowing and I'll make my own Pyrex ones. Ultimately there'll be no time for anything but this, I may as well quit my job.

Or, as new initiates will find, simply go back to smoking...

I think what it really comes down to is going from cig-a-likes (a device which runs out of power and liquid too quickly as well as not providing enough vapour) to a device which provides more of each of these requirements.

Now we could possibly be venturing into the world you describe ?, not neccessarily !.

If all you need to do is find a device which fits these requirements then a box mod isn't what you need at all, nor a mechanical mod. Nor do you need "special batteries". And neither do you need to rebuild coils.

All you need is a decent tube mod, an AW battery and a reasonably good tank with replaceable premade coils.

Low powered tube mods running high ohm premade coils don't really require any knowledge at all.

I use an expensive high quality tube mod, an expensive high quality re-buildable RTA. And i D.I.Y my own liquids.

I spend very little time at all carrying out maintenance on any of this stuff. 99% use / 1% maintenance.

 

[Lessifer]

I'm curious what these mechanical mods are like? I'm certainly not planning to get one, as they do seem to be the kind that are more likely to be unfriendly if you're less than vigilant with them (going from the list, which I will cease referring to after this). Do they give a better hit? Use less power? Simple answers please

A mechanical mod is just a simple circuit, like a flashlight. You press the button and power runs through it.
The pros:
1. No electronics to fail.
2. Most are user repairable.
3. They are simple, once you know how to use them.

The cons:
1. Most have very little to no safety features, which means you the user have to know everything about how to use it safely.
2. Since they have no safety features, if you do something wrong, it can result in the battery shorting, and that's when you get the boom.

There are other reasons why people do and don't use mechs, how they function depends solely on what you use them with, they provide whatever voltage the battery has, so you have to know what your atomizer can handle and what battery is outputting.

They are simple devices, but they require some "advanced" knowledge. It's not difficult knowledge to learn, but you do have to learn it to be able to use one safely. People not learning how to use them safely is almost always where the problems occur.

 

[Danneh]

From my experience working in a B&M the VAST majority of vapers are those sort of people. They don't care about the latest kit or flavours, they just want to vape and go. Filling up, replacing coils and charging is about as technical as it gets, and everyone can figure it out if they are actually willing to quit cigarettes. The amount of people that change to anything more advanced than a simple single button or basic VW (e.g. istick 20W) is <1%.

That said it'll never totally replace cigarettes, there are always those who just don't want to know. We had a pair of customers in a couple of weekends ago, used to buying proper el cheapo eGo batteries and disposable clearos. They complained they were crap and didn't stop them smoking. Introduced them to the iStick basic, they fell in love, understood changing coils, and were ready to pay, but the moment we mentioned battery safety, (not charging overnight, avoiding 'fast chargers', etc.) suddenly it was all too technical and they walked out, before we could tell them it applies to all e-cigs, MORESO their ....ty eGo's (recently had a house fire in our area due to those). Some people just aren't willing to use their noggins.

 

[bwh79]

how they function depends solely on what you use them with, they provide whatever current the battery has

If there's anything that's worth getting nit-picky about, this is probably it. They provide whatever voltage the battery has. Current (amps) will vary depending on that voltage and the resistance (ohms) of the attached device. You probably knew that, but not everyone might.

 

[crxess]

Sadly I live in the UK. I hope it's just a case of an abundance of less than cautious types, and not faulty stock.

Actually, Charging issues in the UK are Higher than any other part of the world. dependent on your location, one small town/village or whatever they wish to call it Has had as many Charging failures of e-cigarettes as most of the rest of the world combined. Either that or their Fire chief is Anti-Vaping to the Max and placing blame on non-existent equipment.

Man killed as e-cigarette 'explodes', Merseyside fire service says - BBC News
E-cigarette charger safety alert issued after spate of fires - BBC News

Good Read:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjcpvjiw7TMAhXE1x4KHS5pDjcQFgg0MAM&url=http://www.esfrs.org/EasySiteWeb/GatewayLink.aspx?alId=459&usg=AFQjCNHywlbkPk-DU-DWWfwejU9mTwharA&sig2=B1vqLNbIPiag0nQ2C4nauw&bvm=bv.120853415,d.dmo&cad=rja

Again, one cannot Blame a Product for failure due to poor Power Regulation on the Main lines.

*also note - Most of these reports are Generations old or Very Low cost, low quality products.

 

[Skulcius]

Replying b4 reading any of the responses to this post. I personally have only come across helpful people on this forum no elitism! I am thinking the simple safe bet is to buy a simple device if you don't have time. I am new to vaping. Actually 2 weeks today. I use an endura t22 no hastle fill it tank lasts all day. Battery will last 2 days if I let it. Personally know I am interested in upgrading for at home use knowing I will still use my original device for ease at work or a night of drinking. So I guess as a new vaper I don't get this complaint.

 

[Lessifer]

If there's anything that's worth getting nit-picky about, this is probably it. They provide whatever voltage the battery has. Current (amps) will vary depending on that voltage and the resistance (ohms) of the attached device. You probably knew that, but not everyone might.

You're right, fixed it.

 

[TheMike21]

I think the hobby helped me quit in part, the tinkering, the reading, the community, the youtubes even the vape drama has helped.
That said, even if batteries and devises where as bad as they are painted out to be, I think it's still safer than smoking, yes smoking doesn't cause the immediate visible damage, but your chances of dying are still higher with smoking, just saying.

 

[Spazmelda]

My niece sort of fits what the OP is describing. I've tried to set her up with so much stuff, took her shopping, bought her batteries and juice and coils and patiently explained and demonstrated. Fixed up all my unwanted juices to 18mg/ml for her, sent her care packages with stuff. She's just to effing lazy to make it work. When her set-up quits working (because she was careless with it) she cann't be bothered to buy another because she didn't know what to get, and they were expensive, she spent the money on a tattoo, wah wah. She can afford a pack of cigarettes a day, but not some Ego batteries or whatever. She liked vaping, but couldn't keep up with the maintenance. If she lived with someone who would keep all her gear charged, buy her juice, replace her coils, and buy her new gear whenever she broke what she was using, I have no doubt she could quit smoking. But none of that is going to happen.

 

[devilzrox]

Just to point out that I'm not being overly paranoid, take a look at this thread
ECITA say that chargers above 500mA are not safe to use for charging your batteries

 

[Lessifer]

Just to point out that I'm not being overly paranoid, take a look at this thread
ECITA say that chargers above 500mA are not safe to use for charging your batteries

ego type batteries are small, and most can't handle more than that for charging. They also tend to come with a cheap charger, since most of them are not "brand name" ego's. It's part of knowing your equipment and what is suitable for it. If you don't know what's suitable, know enough to ask.

 

[7sixtwo]

Just to point out that I'm not being overly paranoid, take a look at this thread
ECITA say that chargers above 500mA are not safe to use for charging your batteries

Did you read any of the responses to the initial post in that thread? The gist is that only Ego batteries, (who the hell even uses those anymore?), have a problem with overcharging themselves, which we already knew.

At this point, I think you're just trying to stir #$%& up with sensational, alarmist, nonsense. You're not serious; you're trolling. I'm through playing along.

 

[devilzrox]

ego type batteries are small, and most can't handle more than that for charging. They also tend to come with a cheap charger, since most of them are not "brand name" ego's. It's part of knowing your equipment and what is suitable for it. If you don't know what's suitable, know enough to ask.

I don't even use egos, but that's my point. The link points to a six-page long thread populated by people who know a lot about vaping, not Joe Public. And look at the confusion, and variance of opinion of what's right and what's not... Meanwhile another battery has exploded because w/e

 

[devilzrox]

Did you read any of the responses to the initial post in that thread? The gist is that only Ego batteries, (who the hell even uses those anymore?), have a problem with overcharging themselves, which we already knew.

At this point, I think you're just trying to stir *$@# up with sensational, alarmist, nonsense. You're not serious, and just trolling.

So I try to point out safety concerns, and now I'm trolling? The link is to another vaping site, where vaping-nerds are confused. Yet you guys here know everything, right?

 

[7sixtwo]

So I try to point out safety concerns, and now I'm trolling? The link is to another vaping site, where vaping-nerds are confused. Yet you guys here know everything, right?

Did you know that life is fatal?! I saw it on teh internetz. Better not get out of bed, too many "safety concerns".

 

[Lessifer]

I don't even use egos, but that's my point. The link points to a six-page long thread populated by people who know a lot about vaping, not Joe Public. And look at the confusion, and variance of opinion of what's right and what's not... Meanwhile another battery has exploded because w/e

Are you saying that the fact that there are places to go where people can ask questions about things they don't understand and usually get answers is a bad thing? Is your point just that some people don't know?

Some people don't know anything about batteries and/or charging. Hopefully those people realize that they don't know anything, and should probably ask. That would go for any rechargeable battery in any device. Yes, for other electronics, they usually come with their own charger. Some ecigs do too. The ones that don't usually don't so that they cost less.