Wrinkles?

[oldtechno]

Well, this thread sure shut down quick.

Oh well, I think I'll just zone out here--looking in the mirror;

KISS "You savage...don't you EVER die!

 

[ZeroNullity]

I remember hearing that smoking caused wrinkles. (I'm a guy and am somewhat indifferent to such vanities), BUT--when I went into work last week a friend of mine ask if I'd been doing something to my face.

Hu?

'Well, it looks smoother, different--you being seeing a doctor?'

So.......when you quit smoking, and begin vaping, do those wrinkles caused by smoking.............smooth out?

Unfortunately, you have the same risk as normal smokers when it comes to wrinkles. It is true that smokers typically age 2x as fast in the face. The reason is because of nicotine, it tightens vessels causing lack of nutrients to be able to get to skin. If you smoke e-liquid with nicotine then you have the same risk as a normal smoker or anyone else taking in nicotine. The amount of nicotine you intake... defines greatly how it affects the aging process. Although cigarettes do contain other chemicals that contribute.... nicotine is the largest factor.

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Unfortunately, you have the same risk as normal smokers when it comes to wrinkles. It is true that smokers typically age 2x as fast in the face. The reason is because of nicotine, it tightens vessels causing lack of nutrients to be able to get to skin. If you smoke E-liquid with nicotine then you have the same risk as a normal smoker or anyone else taking in nicotine. The amount of nicotine you intake... defines greatly how it affects the aging process. Although cigarettes do contain other chemicals that contribute.... nicotine is the largest factor.

This intrigues me.

You're right -- nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, meaning it inhibits all that microcirculation to your skin.

Yet there are surely plenty of other substances in tobacco that hurt the skin -- carcinogens are just plain bad for a lot of bodily systems. Carbon monoxide alone does all kinds of awful stuff to the body.

But if nicotine is the primary offender in the aging effect of tobacco (and we're not entirely sure of that, as far as I can tell from looking at studies -- they usually focus on the effect of tobacco as a whole) then maybe people aren't absorbing as much nicotine with vaping as they think.

Also, those same constricted blood vessels cause Raynaud's syndrome (where you get cold, white fingers and toes sometimes as the blood is totally cut off). Raynaud's is common among tobacco smokers, and I've had it for over a year now.
But my Raynaud's has gotten better as I've switched to more vaping and far fewer analogs. This suggests either: (1) I'm getting less nicotine, or (2) there are other substances besides nicotine that were unhealthy for the blood vessels.

 

[ZeroNullity]

This intrigues me.

You're right -- nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, meaning it inhibits all that microcirculation to your skin.

Yet there are surely plenty of other substances in tobacco that hurt the skin -- carcinogens are just plain bad for a lot of bodily systems. Carbon monoxide alone does all kinds of awful stuff to the body.

But if nicotine is the primary offender in the aging effect of tobacco (and we're not entirely sure of that, as far as I can tell from looking at studies -- they usually focus on the effect of tobacco as a whole) then maybe people aren't absorbing as much nicotine with vaping as they think.

Also, those same constricted blood vessels cause Raynaud's syndrome (where you get cold, white fingers and toes sometimes as the blood is totally cut off). Raynaud's is common among tobacco smokers, and I've had it for over a year now.
But my Raynaud's has gotten better as I've switched to more vaping and far fewer analogs. This suggests either: (1) I'm getting less nicotine, or (2) there are other substances besides nicotine that were unhealthy for the blood vessels.

Yes, there are too many variables to know the complete facts. And even when we think we know the complete facts, it changes based on the way we look at it. Lots of things can play a role to the aging of the face. The muscles we use while smoking could play a role... Carbon monoxide is another which could also cause cardiovascular diseases... which cause lack of oxygen to all the cells. And not to mention carcinogens & free radicals.. Cigarette companies also add other chemicals to increase the addiction of cigarettes. This is of course all based on what we think we know & our best way to describe it. To make a long story short, we just don't know. E-smoking appears to be safer, but not completely safe. If your worried about your health I advise to completely avoid both smoking & e-smoking.

 

[Kate51]

If you can tolerate taking Vitamin B-3, Niacin, I've found that regular Niacin 100mg tablet with the Flash! every day (even two a day for a few weeks) helps greatly to re-open and improve discoloration in the facial capillaries, and also the whole rest of your body (lungs, etc.) will benefit. Even if you take them just for a couple months or so, it will make you feel like you have 2nd degree burns and itchy for about an hour, but the therapy is very good if you have no aversion to it. Just be careful not to scratch or rub your skin while the Flushing is present, you can cause damage. Some people have almost purplish skin across the cheeks and nose area, under-eyes also. Those are tiny capillaries that are gorged and lack circulation, and look like bruising. Ask your Dr. if concerned. Along with the Niacin, do follow up with deep breathing exercise, in through the nose, out through pursed lips several times a day. Get those lungs expanded, the diaphram firmed up, along with your core muscles, you will see improvement. You may still have wrinkles, but they will be healthier!!

 

[oldtechno]

Zeronullity;

You guys may be right, I may be taking the same risk...but where does the smooth skin come from my friend noticed from across the room?

Just the same all of you added the answer--we don't know for sure.

I guess a sub question I should have asked is; Which chemical in E Juice is a skin conditioner? AND Is it absorbed into the body, go through the circulatory system and therefore attack the wrinkles from 'within'?

 

[oldtechno]

All in all I think this is a subject that needs testing.

 

[ZeroNullity]

Zeronullity;

You guys may be right, I may be taking the same risk...but where does the smooth skin come from my friend noticed from across the room?

Just the same all of you added the answer--we don't know for sure.

I guess a sub question I should have asked is; Which chemical in E Juice is a skin conditioner? AND Is it absorbed into the body, go through the circulatory system and therefore attack the wrinkles from 'within'?

The chemical in E-liquid that's a skin softener is a glycerol. A vicscious liquid that is used in many pharmaceutical medicines. Now this is food safe glycerol, as there are glycerols that can kill you. Such as ethylene glycol found in radiator fluid... not to be confused with propylene glycol found in pet safe radiator fluid, which is what we smoke. Although propylene glycol is considered toxic it's mute in comparison to ethylene glycol. PG can cause vomiting, ........, nausea, hemoglobniuric nephrosis, and respiratory tract irritations. Apparently when the FDA tested E-liquid... they found some ethylene glycol.... limited tainted batches I hope. It was apparently the reason that they banned some of the shipments from specific suppliers. And that's why I also say it's probably a safer alternative to smoking provided you don't get a tainted product.

All in all I think this is a subject that needs testing.

Without question, right now it's a bit of blind faith. Overall the evidence we have now based on individual compositions shows it's a safer alternative. However that could easily change with long term studies.

 

[Kate51]

PG and VG are humectants. What that means is that if you coat the surface of something with it, in any form, it will draw moisture from its surroundings. These chemicals are used heavily in cigarette manufacturing also to ...... molds.
So if it's on your skin, it will draw a small amount of of moisture, creating dryness, which causes wrinkling.
Solution: Careful cleansing and additional moisturizers. Often. Also, DO increase intake of fluids, major one of course, H2O. Winter heating season and summer heat and winds create more dryness.
But the best solution for smoker's skin is to stop smoking, as the 4000 chemicals in smoke are perfect for mummification!! Inside and outside the body. They also cause the capillary damage talked about previously, resulting in discoloration. Ridding the cause will result in less discoloration and makes skin look, feel, and be healthy again.
So take your pick. Smoother, healthier looking skin and hair requires daily cleansing and moisturizing and ridding of atmospheric irritants. E-cigs will do more good than harm in that regard, in a big way. And try not to sit around in a big cloud of PG or VG vapor...unless you add water to hydrate your skin first!

 

[kristin]

This is what the Mayo Clinic site said about tobacco smoke and wrinkles:

How does smoking lead to wrinkles?
The nicotine in cigarettes causes narrowing of the blood vessels in the outermost layers of your skin. This impairs blood flow to your skin. With less blood flow, your skin doesn't get as much oxygen and important nutrients, such as vitamin A. Many of the over 4,000 chemicals in tobacco smoke also damage collagen and elastin, which are fibers that give your skin its strength and elasticity. As a result, skin begins to sag and wrinkle prematurely because of smoking.

In addition, repeated exposure to the heat from burning cigarettes and the facial expressions you make when smoking — such as pursing your lips when inhaling and squinting your eyes to keep out smoke — may contribute to wrinkles.

So, it's a combination of the nicotine (which it's known that e-cig give us less than cigarettes) and the other chemicals in smoke and the facial expressions from smoking.

Cutting out the smoke DOES make a difference. Maybe it's allowing the collegen and elastin to replenish, plus less nicotine allows for better blood flow and no more squinting - the answer is , "All of the above."

I don't think the PG is helping though - it's a drying agent. Although, I have found that my face is breaking out more than it has in years - that means it's more oily than it was.

 

[oldtechno]

Well, it was a great idea while it lasted.

Nevertheless, I quit smoking because I have this 510. Sooooooo, (I'll say this real quick so nobody'll catch me telling a white lie)...I'm loosing wrinkles because I'm vaping.

Alright, alright, I'm not smoking (that reduces the wrinkles) because I'm vaping.

Thanks everybody!

 

[oldtechno]

I guess this is my final post on this thread, so I'd like to give my bottom line again;

1. If the wrinkles in my face are caused by the nicotine in my cigarettes, then I quit,
2. And if the smoke juice I vape has nicotine...
3. Why am I still loosing my wrinkles?

 

[Deschain]

Maybe losing the 4000 other nasty chemicals in smokes has aided the old-techno-beauty-regime.


.

 

[Caesarea]

You are getting more oxygen!

C.

 

[Katmar]

keep looking into that mirror......it works, whatever IT is! I don't need the science. I just know I've smoothed out a bit, and I'm happy with it!!

 

[kinabaloo]

Free redical damage is the main cause (rather than nicotine), from all the combustion products. These deplete our anti-oxidants then damage the elastin, collagen and other tissues. This damage can become irreparable when AGEs form (Advanced Glycation End-products, cross-linked proteins that cannot be broken down and replaced in the normal way).

The main victim from the free radicals in smoke is vitamin C. Most people already have low amounts of this important anti-oxidant because all humans (and guinea pigs, but no other animals) cannot make vitamin C in vitro due to an unfortunate genetic mutation many millennia ago.

An effective, and pretty cheap, way to improve wrinkles is Tretinoin / Retin A (a type of vitamin A) that is applied topically. It is also good for bad skin and works by increasing the turnover rate of skin cells. A very small amount applied twice a week to problem areas at night is all that is required, so one tube can last a long time (maybe a year, but always close it tighly). 0.05% is an effective formulation. Normally prescription only but available on the net. Has a faintish smell reminiscent of liquorice / anniseed. Avoid use before sunbathing and be very careful not to get any in your eye (so wash hands after applying). (btw, don't take extra vitamin A as it can be toxic if you overdo it, get plenty of veggies - carotenes - instead)

This info page seems ok: http://dermatology.about.com/cs/topicals/a/tretinoin.htm

 

[oldtechno]

Kinabaloo; You probably got it right.

Deschain...hmmm, you probably got it right to.

Caesarea...well, probably that's right to.

Katmar; Well, there it is, the reason I'll wind up using!

Thanks everybody!!!