Class at Hospital - "Lithium battery in ecigarettes release carcinogenics." Help me respond to this?

[BigBen2k]

That's exactly what I suspected.

It's just so odd. How many battery failures does one have to be exposed to, to get cancer from a Lithium battery?!? And by that time, wouldn't you have been exposed to enough other carcinogens during the normal course of a day, to get it?

What was the purpose of the lecture, medically? Diagnosing the cause of cancer?

Rubbish.

 

[jp_cfc09]

think she is just looking anything to prove shes right and not be showen up by a student, ask her will she change the cliams she is teaching to ( carcinogens can be inhaled in the case of battery failure although any battery failure would case this, even laptop as to the link you provided).

ask her to read the link even as it proves these battery are safer and can be harmful only under failure and not everyday use, she proved your right to challenge her statement by it really.

 

[mkbilbo]

Okay, just arrived home. I'm exhausted and have an update with information, as promised.

First, if there's a Veteran member on here, who might want to help with this, please let me know via PM.

The reason I mention that is as follows: I can give them the name of the hospital and information, if they wish to confront the source of information in my first post; as someone who is thoroughly educated on this battery issue will be able to respond to their nonsensical data far better than myself. ** More on that in a moment.

Here's the load of b.s. that happened today (can you tell I'm grumpy from it?)

Before I met with my supervisor, I found a printout in my inbox from her. It was this page:
Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

As a matter of fact, I think someone on here might have posted that exact flipping article.

I read it and it has *nothing* to do with inhaling fumes from a normally functioning battery. What. The. Hell. I wasn't expecting anything in my inbox, but to get something that isn't from JAMA or the FDA is ridiculous.

This afternoon when I finally spoke to her one-on-one, here's what I was told in summary.......

The information we were given is based on the information given during a "Cessation" class given to the public at the hospital. (Note: there are multiple classes on a variant of topics offered to the public there).

I was further told that those attending this Cessation class are warned that using an ecigarette does cause a person to inhale fumes from a lithium battery (I took that to mean normal use) and because of that, are encouraged not to use them.

And yes, I asked what information they provide, if any, to the attending public to substantiate this information? The reply? "Did you check your inbox?" - referring to the aforementioned, idiotic webpage.

So, there is someone who is definitely teaching that information to the general public within the hospital. I don't know who it is yet. I just walked in a few minutes ago. But, I can find out and of course, anyone could by calling to inquire who instructs that Cessation class.

What's most troubling to me, is that whomever this instructor is - they are not only putting forward information to the public, but doing so in a way that infers medical viability.

*Now I understand why we're not to discuss any dangers with patients. I believe they will be **referred** to this class if and/or after the Attending (physician) sees a notation on their chart that they're using ecigs. I have absolutely nothing to substantiate that. But I know 1 + 2 isn't 4.

And, returning to what I previously mentioned. If anyone, more apt on this topic than myself, wants to question this person, I'll provide the information off-thread. In fairness, which I have about a shred left, this person may have more information than what my supervisor provided. They better.

Alright, I need to decompress now. SIGH.

But this part:

The reason I mention that is as follows: I can give them the name of the hospital and information, if they wish to confront the source of information in my first post; as someone who is thoroughly educated on this battery issue will be able to respond to their nonsensical data far better than myself.

I'd advise against anything too direct. Yet. You probably need your job and these ANTZ things can get nasty. I wouldn't put it past one of the rabid, foaming at the mouth types to try to get you canned for daring to oppose them (they are on a mission from god after all).

Run, do not walk, to CASAA: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

They deal constantly with the misinformation lunacy going on now and they're good at it. I'm a member but haven't been around long. I'm getting that "out my league" feeling about here. I'm no experienced activist (but I'm a fast learner ).

Though finding out who's behind the "cessation" thing could be interesting. R. J. Reynolds maybe?

(Edit: Though, yeah, I do know nurses are in short supply and just about everybody is hiring if not desperate. At this point, though, seems you need more "expertise" in the activism realm. Something CASAA has.)

 

[mkbilbo]

Before I met with my supervisor, I found a printout in my inbox from her. It was this page:
Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

As a matter of fact, I think someone on here might have posted that exact flipping article.

Yes. They did. Several did I believe. Also, a lot of my info comes from looking up specifics on that very site.

Thing is, that article in particular? It's about lithium-ion in general. Makes it very ironic your supervisor thought that backed them up when the only two photo examples on the page are of a laptop and a cell phone.

Bet she carries a cell phone...

(Edit: by the way, this is where we enter Mark's territory of, "too sarcastic to be allowed in public" as I would have responded to her "cite" of that article by replying, "Yes, you're absolutely right. Shoving your cell up your nose is probably unhealthy". Though I might be tempted to propose alternatives provided I had time before being escorted out of the building.)

 

[bunnomatic]

How can any rational and intelligent person honestly think using a battery will create carcinogenic gasses that you will inhale when used in normal circumstances? Answer---They don't believe it but they know they can twist facts, no matter how trivial, to fit their needs so they can say e-cigs cause cancer and push BP products. The op's workplace cessation seminars are probably being funded with BP money or free samples pushing their product. Follow the trail. Everything always seems to end at BP, BT or FDA it seems.

 

[peraspera]

Keeping the "vaping is dangerous meme" alive and thriving will continue to keep billions of dollars flowing into the health care industry's coffers. The truth, not so much. It is quite reasonable to expect that even taking a teensie step outside the circled wagons will be treated with all the hospitality of a cornered rattler.

Step back and let CASA handle this. Dealing with this type of nonsense is something they have down pat.

 

[RosaJ]

But this part:



I'd advise against anything too direct. Yet. You probably need your job and these ANTZ things can get nasty. I wouldn't put it past one of the rabid, foaming at the mouth types to try to get you canned for daring to oppose them (they are on a mission from god after all).

Run, do not walk, to CASAA: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

They deal constantly with the misinformation lunacy going on now and they're good at it. I'm a member but haven't been around long. I'm getting that "out my league" feeling about here. I'm no experienced activist (but I'm a fast learner ).

Though finding out who's behind the "cessation" thing could be interesting. R. J. Reynolds maybe?

(Edit: Though, yeah, I do know nurses are in short supply and just about everybody is hiring if not desperate. At this point, though, seems you need more "expertise" in the activism realm. Something CASAA has.)

They're probably handing out patches to patients and that's what is "motivating" them. I don't think tobacco companies have any pull in hospitals.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

So does this mean I shouldn't inhale around around my father? He vents on occasion and has a lithium-ion powered pacemaker.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

They're probably handing out patches to patients and that's what is "motivating" them. I don't think tobacco companies have any pull in hospitals.

oh no....but disinformation and ignorance crosses many boundaries!!

What's faster than a telephone...the rumor mill and the gossip train!

 

[mkbilbo]

They're probably handing out patches to patients and that's what is "motivating" them. I don't think tobacco companies have any pull in hospitals.

Better yet, anybody else noticed since Pfizer got the "black box warning" immunity, you can't swing a cat without hitting a Chantix ad?

And while it is true suicide is a way to quit smoking, I can't say it's in my "top picks" for cessation approaches...

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Better yet, anybody else noticed since Pfizer got the "black box warning" immunity, you can't swing a cat without hitting a Chantix ad?

And while it is true suicide is a way to quit smoking, I can't say it's in my "top picks" for cessation approaches...

permanent solution to a temporary problem

 

[mkbilbo]

permanent solution to a temporary problem

"Genocide" being such an ugly word...

 

[fabricator4]

Before I met with my supervisor, I found a printout in my inbox from her. It was this page:
Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University

As a matter of fact, I think someone on here might have posted that exact flipping article.

I read it and it has *nothing* to do with inhaling fumes from a normally functioning battery. What. The. Hell. I wasn't expecting anything in my inbox, but to get something that isn't from JAMA or the FDA is ridiculous

You should have asked her if she had read it, because she obviously has not. Maybe email her back and ask her which paragraph is the important bit, because there's nothing that suggests that a normally operating battery is dangerous to the user. The warnings are about incorrectly using batteries and what can happen.

This kind of pseudo science is sickening, and to find it coming from a hospital... I can't find the words it makes me so mad.

The battery university is a great site - I refer people to it all the time for matters of charging and correct handling. I've been all over that site over the last 10 years and it says nothing about health dangers of lithium batteries in the way the hospital is using it. Isidor Buchmann is a clever man and an electrical engineer, but he's not a chemist or a health care professional. I suspect he would be horrified to know that someone was using the information his website to justify completely unrelated claims of "Oooh look! Batteries are dangerous".

 

[Spazmelda]

You should have asked her if she had read it, because she obviously has not. Maybe email her back and ask her which paragraph is the important bit, because there's nothing that suggests that a normally operating battery is dangerous to the user. The warnings are about incorrectly using batteries and what can happen.

This kind of pseudo science is sickening, and to find it coming from a hospital... I can't find the words it makes me so mad.

The battery university is a great site - I refer people to it all the time for matters of charging and correct handling. I've been all over that site over the last 10 years and it says nothing about health dangers of lithium batteries in the way the hospital is using it. Isidor Buchmann is a clever man and an electrical engineer, but he's not a chemist or a health care professional. I suspect he would be horrified to know that someone was using the information his website to justify completely unrelated claims of "Oooh look! Batteries are dangerous".

Perhaps mr. Buchmann could be persuaded to write an email clarifying the information?

 

[Spazmelda]

Sorry duplicate post.

 

[Xenu2112]

Simple. Since someone else is making the claim ask them to provide peer reviewed studies backing up their claim. Then prepare for silence....

Amen. Science is cool...

 

[Rickajho]

That would make eGo's safer than cig-a-likes, given that air doesn't flow through the battery compartment.

If there's any truth to this...

I don't mean to be redundant if this has already been dealt with, but this point of concern is irrelevant. The battery itself inside an auto e-cig is completely sealed as is any other Li-On battery. The air vent in an auto battery allows air to flow across the sensor in order to turn it on. There is nothing more "open" or exposed to the user about the battery itself in an auto than there is in a manual eGo or a "bare" APV type replaceable battery.

 

[Rickajho]

One more comment, this whole thing has the "I read it on the internet so it has to be true" smell about it.

This time around it smells more like "I wrote it on the internet so it has to be true."

Whatever happened to legitimate peer review?

 

[transcab]

WoW...very interesting topic.
camp here for more info's

 

[fabricator4]

Perhaps mr. Buchanan could be persuaded to write an email clarifying the information?

You mean Isador Buchmann? Yes, that's actually not a bad idea. As I said he's not a chemist, but since it's his site they are using to misquote, it might be appropriate to get him to respond.

How about it? Any chance of sending the original claims to him and asking for a response?