Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors

[Racehorse]

Welcome to America. Its a free market, which means you can vape your unflavored nic base and I can vape my chocolate glazed donut filled with pineapple and coconut juice. If we lived in a nice boring society we'd all be vaping unflavored nic. Again welcome to America. land of the diverse.

Looking at the huge numbers for obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and pre-diabetes........yes, welcome to America.

If it weren't for proper food labelling, I'd probably have those health problems myself.

(I had to dump 2 cans of beans outside in the woods yesterday as the first ingredient was sugar. Why do i need sugar in my beans? I eat beans for the fiber and protein and if I wanted sugar I would eat some Twinkies and donuts instead.)

In order to avoid the diseases of lifestyle that Big Food has foisted on us, a consumer needs to be able to know what is in the product they are eating.

Knowing what is in the product I am vaping seems equally important-----------

By the way, the free market corporations aren't paying the health costs of those who Big Food has tricked. No, unfortunately, by the time most people develop these illnesses, they are on medicare, and we are having to pay for it while Big Food rakes in $$$ from sales.

 

[Racehorse]

and who's Angela?

Though it says "Angela," I have to assume you're talking about me? -

Andria

I'm so sorry Andria, yes, I was talking about you, I will go back and edit my posts........sheesh, I hate when I call somebody by the wrong name. (old age LOL)

Sorry guys

 

[Sirius]

I see you've been around here for a long time. I've read enough old threads to know that diketones have been on the radar on ECF for many years. It's only recently that vendors have even started doing these tests and selling diketone free stuff.

The good thing is that the climate is changing and they will have to start watching their backs if they make claims they can't substantiate. It can't be made right overnight though. And god help us if feds come in to make it right for us.

Meanwhile, we have to make our own mind up who to trust. That's what I did, and I'm fairly sure I'm putting DK free flavors in my juice. I don't think it's that hard if you're willing to do the research. 100% sure is never an option.

I agree with that..We sure do not need to give the feds any more ammunition than they already have. I'm not willing to shoot myself in the foot at the same time as I'm putting it in my mouth anyway..I'm good with waiting on further testing of just what if any harm comes from vaping diketones, I don't jump on many of these new vaping scares as I didn't jump on the temperature control train..I only use kanthal for coils anyway and my choice for wicking material is still rayon..I suppose someone out there has studied rayon now and something in that will soon kill me?!? No matter about that as I'm sure if they haven't someone soon will.

Trust is something gained for me.. Show us some real evidence. Do the studies..People die every hour..I'm sure some vaper somewhere just had a heat stroke somewhere in Mississippi..Study that poor bar stewarts lungs Mr. Government man with the Coroners office! If you are that intent on taxing us to death..At least we would be getting a bit of our monies worth out of it.

 

[SleeZy]

Looking at the huge numbers for obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and pre-diabetes........yes, welcome to America.

If it weren't for proper food labelling, I'd probably have those health problems myself.

(I had to dump 2 cans of beans outside in the woods yesterday as the first ingredient was sugar. Why do i need sugar in my beans? I eat beans for the fiber and protein and if I wanted sugar I would eat some Twinkies and donuts instead.)

In order to avoid the diseases of lifestyle that Big Food has foisted on us, a consumer needs to be able to know what is in the product they are eating.

Knowing what is in the product I am vaping seems equally important-----------

By the way, the free market corporations aren't paying the health costs of those who Big Food has tricked. No, unfortunately, by the time most people develop these illnesses, they are on medicare, and we are having to pay for it while Big Food rakes in $$$ from sales.

Agreed. Also btw canned beans are sugar bombs (even in sweden)
If you wanna eat the beans for what it is, you'd be better of buying real beans and cook them yourself.

As far as the sugar craze goes sweden isn't as bad as america, but almost. Let's just say the most "popular" products usualy contain sugar for no good reason.
And not to speak of all additives.. (also most of em are disguised such as E-"insert number here" so say E-6432 etc. Not sure if you guys are having the same system. But it's used to disguise ingredients "we don't wanna see" kinda

 

[Sirius]

Looking at the huge numbers for obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and pre-diabetes........yes, welcome to America.

If it weren't for proper food labelling, I'd probably have those health problems myself.

(I had to dump 2 cans of beans outside in the woods yesterday as the first ingredient was sugar. Why do i need sugar in my beans? I eat beans for the fiber and protein and if I wanted sugar I would eat some Twinkies and donuts instead.)

In order to avoid the diseases of lifestyle that Big Food has foisted on us, a consumer needs to be able to know what is in the product they are eating.

Knowing what is in the product I am vaping seems equally important-----------

By the way, the free market corporations aren't paying the health costs of those who Big Food has tricked. No, unfortunately, by the time most people develop these illnesses, they are on medicare, and we are having to pay for it while Big Food rakes in $$$ from sales.

Corn is King.
Big food means big corn..Idk many products that do not contain some high fructose corn syrup?!? I'm sure they are out there but if someone tells me it's in my juice I'm vaping,..I may just shoot myself in the foot!

 

[AndriaD]

I'm so sorry Andria, yes, I was talking about you, I will go back and edit my posts........sheesh, I hate when I call somebody by the wrong name. (old age LOL)

Sorry guys

Not a big deal, I just wasn't sure at first you meant me. I've been called everything from Adrian to Angela to Adriana...

In the alternate universe where I'm male, I guess my name is Adrian.

Andria

 

[Mazinny]

A distributor in the U.K. has tested ( and removed ) 5P liquids too :

Liquid test results - Blog - Cloud 9 Vaping

 

[caramel]

Not a big deal, I just wasn't sure at first you meant me. I've been called everything from Adrian to Angela to Adriana...

In the alternate universe where I'm male, I guess my name is Adrian.

Andria

Hadrian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jandrew]

Not a big deal, I just wasn't sure at first you meant me. I've been called everything from Adrian to Angela to Adriana...

You get called a lot better class of a-words than I do!

andrew

 

[KattMamma]

I'm good with disclosure. The industry is growing up and I think it will solve this problem on its own, given a little more time and opportunity.

I am dead against letting the gov't test and approve our products, especially when they refuse to let us know which foods are GMO, and have let food companies pervert the meaning of "organic" - No way! These other experiences tell me that they would do a MUCH worse job of regulating the ingredients than the industry itself will.

 

[Mazinny]

I'm good with disclosure. The industry is growing up and I think it will solve this problem on its own, given a little more time and opportunity.

I am dead against letting the gov't test and approve our products, especially when they refuse to let us know which foods are GMO, and have let food companies pervert the meaning of "organic" - No way! These other experiences tell me that they would do a MUCH worse job of regulating the ingredients than the industry itself will.

I don't think anyone is asking for the government to step in. But they will anyway, whether we like it or not. And if vendors are not transparent and in some instances flat out lie, doesn't look good for the industry and we're giving the FDA and ANTZ more ammunition. We need to get our house in order. Five Pawns is supposedly an industry leader and they have repeatedly stated their product is diacetyl and AP free. A distributor in U.K tests the liquid and their juice has the highest amount of AP ever seen in a liquid so far. And for a company bragging about setting the standard in e-liquid manufacturing, not even getting their nic levels right is absolutely shocking.

Doesn't look good.

 

[Racehorse]

Five Pawns is supposedly an industry leader and they have repeatedly stated their product is diacetyl and AP free. A distributor in U.K tests the liquid and their juice has the highest amount of AP ever seen in a liquid so far.

Doesn't look good.

.............

I'm good with disclosure. The industry is growing up and I think it will solve this problem on its own, given a little more time and opportunity.

So, how much time is required to send eliquids to a lab?

Dr. F's study came out OVER A YEAR AGO, you know, the one that found 74% of eliquids had diketones that vendors said wasn't there.

Let me be frank: If they haven't taken the time in over a year, it's because they are too busy hustling their ejuice out the door.

A year later, and some of them are still lying about it? How much opportunity and time should be given.......for lying? Is there a cut off date for that?

 

[Mr.Mann]

Wow. Cheating at chess?!

 

[Lessifer]

.............



So, how much time is required to send eliquids to a lab?

Dr. F's study came out OVER A YEAR AGO, you know, the one that found 74% of eliquids had diketones that vendors said wasn't there.

Let me be frank: If they haven't taken the time in over a year, it's because they are too busy hustling their ejuice out the door.

A year later, and some of them are still lying about it? How much opportunity and time should be given.......for lying? Is there a cut off date for that?

How much opportunity and time should be given... before what? If you don't like what they're doing, don't buy their product. You don't have to wait for anything.

 

[SleeZy]

I'm good with disclosure. The industry is growing up and I think it will solve this problem on its own, given a little more time and opportunity.

I am dead against letting the gov't test and approve our products, especially when they refuse to let us know which foods are GMO, and have let food companies pervert the meaning of "organic" - No way! These other experiences tell me that they would do a MUCH worse job of regulating the ingredients than the industry itself will.

Just look at how the tobacco companies adds over thousand extra chemicals to get us more hooked.
Smoking a pure tobacco plant or that shall not be named. There's barely anything that makes us addicted nor is it harmful other than the combustion in itself.
Why do we need amounia in the ciggs for example? Or all other extras...

The biggest reason tobacco is harmful for is, due the BT has added over nearly 4000 chemicals just to get us hooked. And taste a little better due the chemicals added. F-that.

If say BT would rule the e-juice making i wouln't trust them at all. They would for sure add x/y in the juice to make us HOOKED on the juice.
I don't trust regulations at all.

I rather choose the juice comp by my own. (which won't happen if BT gets their will through)
It's realy expensive to even test the juice to begin with. So in the end all the smaller & medium companies will go bankrupt just due testing their juices.

Edit: Also it's quite funny...
When we smoked we knew it was bad, but we didn't care at all.
When we switched to vapes, suddenly people started to care about even inhaling air. (basicy) Spend 2 weeks in japan and you've inhaled more bad fumes than you ever would.

 

[Mazinny]

It's realy expensive to even test the juice to begin with. So in the end all the smaller & medium companies will go bankrupt just due testing their juices.

$ 120 per juice. Cheaper for volume.

What is Five Pawns excuse ? They have 11 juices. They can't afford $ 1000 ? Plus they have repeatedly claimed that there are no diketones in their juice which implies that they did test.

 

[KattMamma]

So in the end all the smaller & medium companies will go bankrupt just due testing their juices.

Yes, IF regulations require juice makers to test the juice.

But flavor makers like TFA and Capella are already offering good info on their flavors. A small juice company could easily offer diketone-free juices simply by choosing the right flavors from the right flavor companies. Now whether you can believe them is another story, but that goes for self-regulation or gov't regulation. Just because it has an "FDA-Approved Ingredients" label on it doesn't mean there's no bad stuff in it.

 

[SleeZy]

$ 120 per juice. Cheaper for volume.

What is Five Pawns excuse ? They have 11 juices. They can't afford $ 1000 ? Plus they have repeatedly claimed that there are no diketones in their juice which implies that they did test.

In sweden it cost about 11.9069 US$ if not even more. I'ma see if i can find the source. We've a swedish company that's in court atm (swedish stuff...)
And they said that EACH juice flavor would cost this much to test. So basicly atleast in sweden, every company would go bankrupt due testing their juices.

Edit: Couln't find the source atm ( was on a swedish forum )
I'll continue my quest tomorrow.

However in sweden we've to check for every single compound in the juice. So yea that's the pricetag. And that's PER juice.

 

[Mr.Mann]

$ 120 per juice. Cheaper for volume.

What is Five Pawns excuse ? They have 11 juices. They can't afford $ 1000 ? Plus they have repeatedly claimed that there are no diketones in their juice which implies that they did test.

$120 per? Isn't that the price of 5Pawns new eliquid that's 2-years-steeped and seasoned with flakes of gold leaf? It's never about the money it costs to do the right thing (if we choose to see it as that), it's only ever about the willingness to do something about it. The issue has always been that if you tell your customers one thing and it proves to be the other (and you knew so), you suck! But if you just came out an said what it was from jumpstreet (but stopping short of "working" your customers) then I got no real beef with anyone. If they even never commented on it, then there is no real issue. But if this is true, can anyone with a straight-face actually convince themselves that 5P was unaware of it? Aware and never having cared is one thing. Aware and lying about it is, well..

This is going to be interesting. Not good, but it's going to be interesting! I don't know how true any of this is, but I will go get my popcorn and try not to vape it.

 

[Iffy]

Those results, if true, would be check mate (in my book).

Ahem, did someone say Czech mate...

OK, now back to our normal...