The biggest issue is the lying. All the pics of their clean room and facilities, all the rhetoric and the lobbying isn't going to mean squat if these tests are accurate.
Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors
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No, you don't, but that's okay Lessifer. I've noticed we don't agree on everything, but you are still good people.
IMHO, There is no need to sue ...... any more than there is a need to regulate.
All these companies have to do is step up, be adults, and know about the product they are selling.
Unless we want vaping to become like those carnival side shows where the guy in the tophat is selling elixirs.
Lawsuits, like regulation, is going to do NOTHING positive for the industry, or for vapers. As a matter of fact, it only hurts us.
First of all, that "someone" was actually Dr. F. and his team. Not some vaper on a forum , or me......but someone who has medical and research background. I can't quite trivialize that opinion.
Once a week, if I ran an eliquid mixing outfit, I would be testing nicotine levels, just as regular R&D, on bottles leaving my premises. That is the very least I would be doing in terms of quality control for my company. There would be other things, but that seems like the minimum requirement.....
A lot of this is automated now, so it would be important to make sure all the equipment was properly calibrated and dispensing correctly.
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Posted for S&G hon..Yes you are right..I've vaped WTA and know you have used it as well. One thing for sure is the FDA will take WTA and categorize it..Maybe put in in a special place..Maybe even a schedule 3 narcotic?!? I joke,..I joke..lol
My main fear is that it's such a marginal item, it may just disappear completely after the regs go into effect -- which is why I've been gradually withdrawing from it. It's been very useful stuff; I could tell right from the start of vaping that I wasn't horribly addicted to nicotine, and didn't have much tolerance for it, for such a long-term smoker... but after my illness, relapse, and return to smoke-free, I found out that it had been those other alkaloids that had been so addictive for me -- and having the WTA product meant I could address that addiction and slow withdrawal very effectively.
I do plan to keep some on hand, even when I'm "done" with it -- far better to vape that than to ever succumb to a cigarette craving.
Andria
Apparently Cloud 9 claims they informed 5P of the results on May 5 and waited until now to publish so that 5P would get a chance to address the issue, but they never did.
Would love to hear 5P's response.
If Cloud 9 sends me the lab certificates, I will let everyone know their response.
And if it's true, Queenside, Grandmaster, and Castle Long will be dropped from my rotation.
Which doesn't leave me with much to choose from.
I think I'm going to get Halo Tribeca tested myself.
It's the longest standing liquid in my rotation and the only one I could vape all day if I had to.
Anyone know how to go about that?
Halo have been adamant that their liquid does not contain diketones, and they don't carry dairy flavors, but who knows. I trust them more than the likes of 5P, Suicide Bunny, Cuttwood etc...
I think this was addressed.......the price is cheap if submitting a LOT of samples........submitting one would not be affordable. Unelss you wanted to go in with other vapers....or.....find a certificate of testing....have you even asked them directly?
Not all companies publish them but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
If only halo made higher vg liquids. I Would like to try more of them, I had tribeca and enjoyed it.
When it comes to my one and only all day vape, I wouldn't trust anyone's answer.
But as far as I know, Halo claims to be diacetyl free...
Is there any Diacetyl in Halo juice? | E-Cigarette Forum
However, there is also this...
E-Liquid and E-juices | Vape Halo Vape Juice
Emphasis mine.
And this post on reddit...
It looks like pretty much every flavor we vape may contain diacetyl. Scroll to bottom for charts and list. : electronic_cigarette
So yeah, I want to test it myself.
You're taking it abit out of context though. For the people who vapes 15-30mils a day he was concerned.
Altho i agree that these chemicals shouln't be there to begin with.
BUT what DR.F noted it's still less than ciggs, only people who vapes 15-30ml a day + subohmers are in the risk zone. (If we should call it that)
But all in all we're on the same side.
Granted for the moment i choose to vape flavors containing diacetyl. But i don't vape 15-30ml a day.
So personally i consider it "safe" altho i know it's not 100% safe to vape that.
However no vendor should claim x / y - free unless they realy know and preferably can post proofs.
All in all, if you want to vape with 99% safety. Flavorless is the way to go.
No, you don't, but that's okay Lessifer. I've noticed we don't agree on everything, but you are still good people.
IMHO, There is no need to sue ...... any more than there is a need to regulate.
All these companies have to do is step up, be adults, and know about the product they are selling.
Unless we want vaping to become like those carnival side shows where the guy in the tophat is selling elixirs.
Lawsuits, like regulation, is going to do NOTHING positive for the industry, or for vapers. As a matter of fact, it only hurts us.
First of all, that "someone" was actually Dr. F. and his team. Not some vaper on a forum , or me......but someone who has medical and research background. I can't quite trivialize that opinion.
Once a week, if I ran an eliquid mixing outfit, I would be testing nicotine levels, just as regular R&D, on bottles leaving my premises. That is the very least I would be doing in terms of quality control for my company. There would be other things, but that seems like the minimum requirement.....
A lot of this is automated now, so it would be important to make sure all the equipment was properly calibrated and dispensing correctly.
I don't WANT lawsuits, but I think it's fairly obvious by now that this mess is not going to be cleared up unless there are consequences for being untruthful, more consequences than being called out on a forum or on a radio show. Now I personally would have no problem with a vendor saying yes our liquid has diketones, or we don't know if it has diketones so if you're worried about that buy something else, but I do have a problem with a vendor saying our liquid is diketone free IF IT ISN'T.
I've read what Dr. F has released, and I respect him and appreciate what he does for the industry. That being said, he doesn't have any more proof of ACTUAL harm than we do, when it comes to vaping liquids that contain diketones. I hope he continues his research and if it is there, finds the actual proof, I would really like to know about it. I am also grateful that he brings things like this to our attention so that I can make the informed decision of whether or not I want to take this potential risk.
Any company doing big batch dilutions of nicotine to make lower mg/ml batches should be testing along the way.
Folks do yourself a favour and try unflavoured. Once you get accustomed to it, you will be able to distinctly taste very diluted flavours - like a few drops of flavoured into a 30ml bottle of unflavoured. Then your 2000 ppm of something nasty becomes just 200 ppm and so on. I basically think that the current flavoured liquid on the market is too concentrated. It works well when switching from smoking, but after some time one can definitely cut on flavours.
I have been meaning to try unflavored, even bought some base to mix down. I think that's great for personal use, but I also think that having availability of flavors at varying price points is essential for vaping as a whole. If everyone DIY'd the liquid makers would go under, and if the liquid goes, the hardware follows.
I finally decided to try unflavored, and I'm glad I did.
It really does taste pretty good.
There are only two liquids I will buy 30ml bottles of, and did so in my last order...
--Halo Tribeca
--Halo Fusion (flavorless)
As far as buying anything else, it has to be 15ml or less.
But I very much prefer samples sizes.
I don't DIY, I buy both unflavoured and flavoured already mixed from the same shop. Then I just add some of the flavoured into the unflavoured (but not always, I'm fine with straight unflav for most of the time).
I think the concentration they currently sell is just right for a smoker. But after some time you can dilute your flavoured with unflavoured. I've never got "vaper's tongue" after using low concentrations of flavours.
I vape unflavored about 20 or 30 percent of the time and i do enjoy it but get bored after a few hours. Caramel is right though, i was shocked at how much flavor i got when i added just a few drops to a tank ( less than 10 % of total volume ).
Oh, yeah, I've been "cutting" regular liquid with pure vg for a long time. It actually brings the flavor out sometimes, especially if it's one that was fairly high pg to start with.
Just to add that there's quite a lot you can do with vaping, from selection of your supplier to diluting or going unflavoured. It's not like there's just one supplier of ground beef for all groceries in town and we all get listeriosis.
Funny you should mention that. Lately I've been wanting to dilute my flavors becasue I get so much dadgum flavor in my vape, it's kind of offensive sometimes. Other times it's great though.
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