petition needs your signature

[Lessifer]

60,326

"Li'l cutie" is a cutie. Don't know who (or what) mom was seeing when this happened.

David, I think the dam owners will have a lot to answer for in the coming months. I noticed the berms but didn't really think about them. Not sure if it was to save erosion or having to truck in more fill next summer to rebuild the road.

Here is Oroville Oct. 30, 2014. I've seen the same picture as having been taken in Feb. 2015. Doesn't really matter, didn't start raining until late 2016.

Hard to test a spillway under those conditions. However, safety standards had been upgraded since the dam was built and they poo-pooed them when concerns were raised. With or without dams, they really need to stop people from living in flood plains.

BTW, when I get back from visiting my parents next week I'll have to figure out a way to send you a photo of an electrical gizmo used in the building of the Hetch Hetchy Dam. Maybe you can tell me what the heck it is.

For those of you that don't know what the Hetch Hetchy Dam is, it's the only dam built within a national park, Yosemite, allowing San Francisco to steal water from you and deprive you of a second natural wonder, not to mention the Native Americans that lived there.

Outflow from Hetch Hetchy, Tuolumne River, is the main water source into Don Pedro.

Les, got your water wings on?

I do live within a few hundred yards of the American River. It's unlikely that my particular corner of Sac will flood, but definitely not impossible. We've got emergency bags packed and ready if needed. Could be worse, I could live in Natomas.

 

[DavidOck]

60,326...

Hard to test a spillway under those conditions. However, safety standards had been upgraded since the dam was built and they poo-pooed them when concerns were raised. With or without dams, they really need to stop people from living in flood plains.

Yep. Happens here almost yearly, on the uncontrolled rivers, one or more will flood...

Like vaping, follow the $$. States, counties, cities don't get property taxes from vacant land. Years back, when we were looking for property to live on, I had the book of "inundation maps" from our hydro, showing what would be underwater if both dams on the river were to fail. Crossed off several places the realtor showed us.

(Do send the pic of the electrical gizmo )

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,327

I do live within a few hundred yards of the American River. It's unlikely that my particular corner of Sac will flood, but definitely not impossible. We've got emergency bags packed and ready if needed. Could be worse, I could live in Natomas.

That's not fun, especially with a child. Having been forced to prepare for natural disasters over the past several years, I beg you to remember to take those things that you can't ever replace if you can never return home like photos, mementos, whatever.

My husband always packs his old baseball cards that he hasn't looked at in the 27 years I've known him. We have a space-wasting stuffed rabbit that means the world to us (long story, don't ask) that is always one of the first things packed. Photos, meds, logs/diaries, mementos, insurance papers, photos proving what you own. The other stuff can eventually be replaced. My vape gear is now high on the list since it can't be replaced (ProVaris especially) or I refuse to pay the upcoming taxes on to replace.

I really hope you don't have to leave but yeah, you could live in worse places.

60,326...

Yep. Happens here almost yearly, on the uncontrolled rivers, one or more will flood...

Like vaping, follow the $$. States, counties, cities don't get property taxes from vacant land. Years back, when we were looking for property to live on, I had the book of "inundation maps" from our hydro, showing what would be underwater if both dams on the river were to fail. Crossed off several places the realtor showed us.

(Do send the pic of the electrical gizmo )

That beaver looks like my landlord that just showed up with an electric chainsaw with an 18" bar to cut down all the menacing dead trees (over 100, almost all over 18" DBH) on the property. Took them, he and his son, over 20 minutes to drop a little 6" DBH tree. The beaver could have done better but it's probably dangerous under the current STIHL recall. (Okay, only one was a mini-me saw and gas powered, but still, your beaver could have done better but probably would have dropped it over the drainage and into the brush that the animals depend on. )

Really disappointed to hear of the "follow the money" part. Shouldn't surprise me anymore, yet it does. I used to go for long walks with my old dog fossil hunting down at the "lake." Now there is a sign saying no dogs allowed beyond a certain point, far above the lake level. There are deer, mountain lion, turkey, ducks, turtles, raccoons, geese and other assorted wildlife down there at lake level. A Hetch Hetchy supervisor was busted for (......, does that come through?) IN THE LAKE, which provides drinking water to some. Makes sense to me. Upstream there are numerous livestock doing their thing into the tributaries, they don't give a .

Visiting the folks is often traumatic (due to their age) so please give me a reminder if I forget. I'd love to know exactly what it is. I only took it because it had been blown down and wanted to preserve some history if it was important. It fell just beyond the Groveland roundhouse on what seems to be a spur for the RR. Would love to hear your thoughts and comments on it. Have you seen the book "Hetch Hetchy and it's Dam Railroad"?

 

[DavidOck]

60,327...

No, haven't seen that book, but Amazon has it for just under $500! (Although that would probably qualify for free shipping... )

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,328

David, wow, I should sue the USFS for stealing my original copy. When I replaced the book the title had been changed to Yosemite's Hetch Hetchy Railroad. It's by Ted Wurm. I liked the other title better. If your library can't get it for you I can lend you mine if you're interested.

 

[DavidOck]

60,329

I'll check though my local library. Small print run / niche category books tend to skyrocket in price over time, if they have an lasting value. And for some of us, history does have value!

 

[mattiem]

60,329 still

Kinda hard to find a cute photo of a hyena

 

[DavidOck]

I think we both beat the odds on that, Mattie!

(I think the trick is to photograph them just after they ate )

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,330

Or do what politicians do, exploit the children.

David, your library should be able to get it from somewhere, if they try. It's a big book. Not thick, just big on heavy stock.

 

[DavidOck]

60,330...

 

[mattiem]

bumpin' it up

 

[DavidOck]

 

[FlamingoTutu]

60,330 still

 

[mattiem]

60,330 still

I am beginning to think it is time to throw in the towel, turn off the lights and admit that the party is over. Had this been a petition to acknowledge some teenage star with a new boyfriend/girlfriend it would have gone viral and would have had at least half a million supporters within the first couple of weeks.

We have fought the good fight for almost 2 years and hopefully we have put a bug in the ear of a few folks that can do something about this if they choose to try. I feel sure that the mods have been lenient with us and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for doing so.

What say all of y'all? Shall we stop bumping the thread?

 

[SteveS45]

 

[SteveS45]

 

[DavidOck]

There are still occasional bumps to the count... and the possibility that further actions by the FuDA will spark more interest...

Les, your petition. Thoughts?

 

[SteveS45]

Just because it stalled for a bit doesn't mean it has stopped and it could have gotten signatures and they did house cleaning at the same time. I just posted it on the top of the page to hopefully generate a good volume of new supporters!

U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives, President of the United States: Reject the FDA's Deeming of Vapor Products as Tobacco Products

 

[mattiem]

I am definitely not going to stop fighting for this life saving technology but am just wondering why it seems none of the new folks to the forum are checking out and signing. Are they just over looking the thread...I just don't know. It seems to me that most folks just don't care.

I stress the fact that vaping shouldn't be classified as a tobacco product in every letter I write to my reps and the White House. I am hoping and praying that they will finally get it. I hate the fact that those that could have gotten behind this chose not to do so and they chose to fight the date change instead of fighting to keep us from being classified as tobacco to begin with. I guess that horse has already left the gate though.

I guess I just woke up discouraged this morning and I know all of y'all know where I am coming from. It is impossible, for those of us that feel so strongly about this, to understand why others can't see what we see and they seem to accept being classified as tobacco. I have even read comments from folks here on this forum that say "Well, nicotine is tobacco" because it is derived from tobacco.

 

[OlderNDirt]

@mattiem, I didn't really want to "like" your post, but sadly, it is probably pretty spot on. I know very few vapers, have talked to them, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. It like "hey, its all good today, Why worry?"

You would think with everything going on, at least a few would stand up and take a stand. Or maybe "the few" already have and that is where the count now stands.

I am afraid my original concerns are coming to fruition, that the FDA regs would give the green light to states to do whatever they like. The Vermont shop fined and now closing. Quietly, in the state of Nebraska, a bill has been submitted to raise the legal age for vaping to 21. And how many others we don't even know about yet. All, IMHO, with the intended end goal of extreme taxation.

To those of us watching closely, it is coming and coming fast. The rest have no idea or feel it just can't happen. By the time it does, it will be too late.

Sorry for the downer post, so here: