The Rattlesnake Effect- Why the Cheapo VV [Exception Itaste MVP] Don't Vape the Same as a Provari or DNA20D

[Baditude]

@ JakeBailey:

The iTaste VV and MVP fire a higher PWM signal, similar to the 800+ Hz signal that the Provari does. The VTR allegedly fires a PWM signal in the 60's, higher than the 33.3 Hz of most inexpensive mods, but nowhere near the PWM signals that the above three mods use.

I was surprised that Innokin chose not to use the same PWM chipset in the VTR as the MVP & VV3. Perhaps this was because of a cost factor, to keep the price affordable enough for this higher end mod, but I'm only guessing on this.

Some people notice a "hotter" vape from the "rattlesnake effect", and may actually prefer it. Others can't tell a difference from one to another, so they could care less. So to some people the type of the PWM used is important, to others its not.

 

[catalinaflyer]

I don't know the PWM of my Itaste 134 or VTR but on most atomizers the 134 does a better job (better flavor and vapor thickness) even when firing both at the exact same wattage.

Personally I don't think there is no real correlation between price and PWM signal. I have thought about opening up the VTR to see what chip it's using to generate the signal and flashing it to a higher signal. I change the PWM signal on electronic speed controllers for brushless motors all the time so I have the software and should be able to source some code for the chip.

 

[MonicaRae]

Another great site if your looking for innokin products --

Pretty great prices...shippings a little much but they automatically 2-day it.

Customer service was great - they thru in a lanyard and a 10 ml bottle of e-juice all for no reason. I was a little leary of them a first cuz there's nothing on them but I couldn't be happier.

MistHub - Buy Electronic Cigarette (E-Cig) Starter Kits, E-Liquids and Accessories

When I bought the itaste vv 3.0 standard kit I got a great price 45.99 -- right now it's $52 - I think it was black Friday or something but still -- wall charger, passthru cable, 5 iclear 16's.. I think I did pretty good for $45

I know they sell just itaste express kit for $37.99 & just the itaste for $29.95. May not be the best price out there right now for just the batt but I think their kit's are pretty darn good...esp coming with 5 iclear's.

 

[Mike.S]

A coil in a DC circuit is treated as a resistive load. However, a coil in an AC (33hz) circuit, is treated as an inductive load.

Calculate how many Henries in a 6 turn, 2 mm dia. coil. Now, calculate the inductive reactance of that coil at 33 Hz. After doing so, you can come back with the knowledge that the inductance is completely insignificant to this discussion, it's only the resistance which matters.

 

[Tontomoses]

The reason I switched from Pall Mall menthols to Marlboro special blends = I found out pall mall menthols rattlesnaked like crazy, no matter which lighter I used! The guy at the gas station I bought from (Bpusardo was his name) smokes a LOT told me that rattlesnaking cigs were poor, terrible, subpar....... So I tried a zippo, a bic, grill lighter, I even tried matches! ONCE, I tried to light my cig from a bonfire and burned all my hair off (I didn't check the resistance and ratings of the tobacco, my bad)....... Even though I was able to get lots of really good smoke and TH from the Pall malls, that cursed rattlesnaking ended my Pall Mall marriage. Now, I'm vaping, and I hear these things rattlesnake too??? I GIVE UP!

 

[Thrasher]

Calculate how many Henries in a 6 turn, 2 mm dia. coil. Now, calculate the inductive reactance of that coil at 33 Hz. After doing so, you can come back with the knowledge that the inductance is completely insignificant to this discussion, it's only the resistance which matters.

you are correct lol it becomes even more insignificant when you realize this isnt even an AC signal

 

[BillyWJ]

An electric heating coil will not react instantaneously to the application of current. If you doubt this go to a cold burner on an electric range. Turn the burner to to high and see how long it takes to glow orange.

The same thing happens to a heating coil in our atomizers. They don't react instantaneously to the application of current. It isn't voltage or current that vaporizes juice, it's heat from the coil.

No, the coils in our atomizers are not turning hot to cold every time the coil power is pulsed on and off. Instead they reach an average heat output while being pulsed. There is no variation in heat output that can vary the vapor quality.

The rattlesnake is simply a sound, not a pulse in vapor output or quality.

I hear the rattlesnake sound when vaping a 2.0 ohm single coil at 6 to 8 watts on my 33.3 Hz Sigelei Zmax. The sound always comes from the carto, not the Sigelei. I don't hear the rattlesnake when vaping a 3.0 ohm coil at the same power. Maybe if I was more subject to suggestion I could imagine a difference in vapor quality.

I just got a SiD, which is a 33hz device, I've yet to hear it rattle. *shrug*

Would it be enlightening to test all of these devices with a heat probe at the coil at load, to show that there's not a significant variance in temp?

 

[Mike.S]

I just got a SiD, which is a 33hz device, I've yet to hear it rattle. *shrug*

Would it be enlightening to test all of these devices with a heat probe at the coil at load, to show that there's not a significant variance in temp?

Good luck with that - finding a thermal probe that sensitive, which can react that fast. I think you'll need a high speed IR camera.

 

[Nibiru2012]

I just got a SiD, which is a 33hz device, I've yet to hear it rattle. *shrug*

Would it be enlightening to test all of these devices with a heat probe at the coil at load, to show that there's not a significant variance in temp?

Since this is a 33 Hz chip, then to me it cycles at 33 pulses per second. That's real hard see since it would appear as a constant glow. Much like movie film frames are at X frames per second of individual still frames but appear as a smooth fluid motion or image.

 

[yzer]

With those coils turning hot and cold all of the time you should be able to pull a vape, take off the drip tip and see some pretty good ripples in that pulsed vapor. And as we all know... nobody likes rippled vapor.

 

[Friscoweather]

you are correct lol it becomes even more insignificant when you realize this isnt even an AC signal

Sorry, but you are wrong. Any pulsed dc voltage creates an AC component. What do you think 33hz means?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[p.opus]

Sorry, but you are wrong. Any pulsed dc voltage creates an AC component. What do you think 33hz means?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Sorry Frisco, but you are wrong.

In Pulsed DC is current in a single direction only.

In AC current flow actually reverses in the circuit.

Pulsed current would be if If I simply fired my button on my atomizer multiple times a second. (on...off...on...off...on...off)

AC would be as if I took my battery and reversed it multiple times a second. +/-... -/+...+/-...-/+...+/-...-/+

A hertz is a simply a cycle per second, a cycle can mean pulse DC or AC.

33 hertz for a pulsed DC signal means that the circuit goes from on to off to on again 33 times a second
33 hertz for an AC signal means that the current goes in one direction, reverses direction, then reverses to it's original direction again 33 times a second.

I can put safely put a 1 Farad capacitor on a pulsed DC load. However if I put a 1 Farad capacitor on an AC load I'd better take cover.

 

[Friscoweather]

You are still going to have a collapsing magnetic field being induced into the coil. The voltage changing polarity doesn't really matter.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mike.S]

...none of which matters. The reactance is on the order of micro-Ohms.

 

[gerrymi]

at my local vaping shop, all of the cheapo CE4's taste fantastic, solid, and smooth, even at higher voltages, while I've tried the exact same CE4's they have, using the same exact techniques I did for their devices, and get a horrible vape.

Then I remembered - for their CE4 samples, they USE A HIGHER END MOD THAT MAY HAVE A BETTER PULSE RATE!!!!!!

Me...I'd go back to that same "local vaping shop"...buy the "HIGHER END MOD THAT MAY HAVE A BETTER PULSE RATE"...and I'd then be done with all my hassles!!??!!

 

[DavidAmonettNashville]

The E-Vic fires at 104.9 Khz so it should be on the list of non-rattling devices....

 

[Go4iT]

The E-Vic fires at 104.9 Khz so it should be on the list of non-rattling devices....

Love my eVic, no rattles at all. A little on the delicate side, though. Still love the Provari, especially the new Gold Mini...

 

[suspectK]

You are still going to have a collapsing magnetic field being induced into the coil. The voltage changing polarity doesn't really matter.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

I understand what you're getting at.. if you weren't arguing that RMS-DC was AC, I'd agree with you... but are you saying an electromagnetic field isn't different between AC and DC?..

And it'd probably be best not to start an argument with "sorry, but you're wrong," especially when you're wrong.

 

[p.opus]

Sorry....but you are all wrong... (Just joking). But seriously, electromagnetic fields and inductance in the coil is not what makes the difference. It's heat.

Heat generated at the coil. Joules. That's what cooks juice. There's another post here that I think lays it out pretty point blank. It explains why higher frequency devices taste "smoother" and it also explains why this effect is more pronounced in stacked battery configs on 33hz chipsets due to the higher amplitude PWM signal.

Also keep in mind, while the ProVari does have 800hz PWM, it is also filtered BEFORE it hits the coil, this is why it does not show up on a scope and why you can put a DC volt meter on it and get a reading. The same holds true for an MVP2 or VV3 (frequency may be different, but it too is filtered to straight DC). A 33hz device is non-filtered, which is why you get no reading on a DC volt meter.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provari/381232-provari-oscope-vs-vamo-27.html#post8952792

 

[Dampmaskin]

A coil does not discriminate between DC and pulsed AC. It does not care what the minimum voltage and the maximum voltage is, or what side of "zero" they are. (Remember, ground is relative.)

What the coil cares about, is the difference between max and min voltage, and the frequency. (And probably the waveform to some degree.)

Still, unless someone can make a convincing argument that the inductance of an atomizer coil is of any significant magnitude, the point is moot.