10th and 11th Vaping Deaths

[kross8]

These deaths are heartbreaking.

I've said before that I fear they are going to continue until the CDC gets up and gets out there with the plain and clear truth and facts.

People hear "e-cigarettes" and think 'it's not them'...and continue to use their carts.
The obfuscation of the truth is tantamount to homicide.

The truth will stop the deaths.

I've seen so many articles,,, most interesting was one with pics of Skid Row (??) Of LA,,, TONS of product boxes etc ready for dealers to buy & fill. You have to believe the local police are involved in distribution of the tainted vapes. Hell for all we know the government arranged the whole event.

 

[Katya]

You want the straight skinny on the issue .. ?? Take a minute ::

Is Vaping Really Killing People? Here are the Facts

Right, except that now, it turns out, some juul-compatible cartridges are also suspect.

From Journey of a Tainted Vape Cartridge: From China’s Labs to Your Lungs

"The center of North America’s illicit vape cart industry is a 12-block region near LA’s Skid Row. (...)

LA's Toy District serves as the nation's cheap-goods wholesale market, and the vape stores are booming.
Between East 3rd and Boyd, it’s all vapes, vapes, and more vapes. It only takes a wad of cash and an hour of haggling to buy everything you need to begin harming consumers with an illicit market THC vape cart, a fake juul pod, or something advertised as CBD.

Why bother to purchase at a brick-and-mortar store when Alibaba can ship it direct? Because Alibaba requires a credit card and leaves a digital footprint. LA’s wholesale market deals in cash.

“If you sell $300,000 in [illicit vape] carts, you can’t walk into a bank with that. You have no stated business,” Hackett explains. “Third Street is an easy place to go in with dirty cash, and come out with more supplies.” On Friday, Sept. 13, a Leafly investigative team wandered through this neighborhood spotting empty vape carts and counterfeit empty Juul pods."

 

[Skeebo]

I can't stop thinking about the woman who died from 40 cigarettes.

 

[Katya]

Were they all lipoid pneumonia? If not, what else?

Nope. From The Vaping Illness Outbreak: What We Know So Far

"Patients report experiencing rapid onset of coughing, weight loss and significant breathing difficulties. Other symptoms may include nausea, vomiting and ......... Symptoms generally appear over the course of a few days but can take as long as a few weeks to arise. The majority of patients are hospitalized, and while many of their symptoms overlap, their various diagnoses have included lipoid pneumonia (which can occur when oil enters the lungs), acute eosinophilic pneumonia (caused by the buildup of a type of white blood cell in the lungs) and acute respiratory distress syndrome.

 

[kross8]

Right, except that now, it turns out, some JUUL-compatible cartridges are also suspect.

From Journey of a Tainted Vape Cartridge: From China’s Labs to Your Lungs

"The center of North America’s illicit vape cart industry is a 12-block region near LA’s Skid Row. (...)

LA's Toy District serves as the nation's cheap-goods wholesale market, and the vape stores are booming.
Between East 3rd and Boyd, it’s all vapes, vapes, and more vapes. It only takes a wad of cash and an hour of haggling to buy everything you need to begin harming consumers with an illicit market THC vape cart, a fake JUUL pod, or something advertised as CBD.

Why bother to purchase at a brick-and-mortar store when Alibaba can ship it direct? Because Alibaba requires a credit card and leaves a digital footprint. LA’s wholesale market deals in cash.

“If you sell $300,000 in [illicit vape] carts, you can’t walk into a bank with that. You have no stated business,” Hackett explains. “Third Street is an easy place to go in with dirty cash, and come out with more supplies.” On Friday, Sept. 13, a Leafly investigative team wandered through this neighborhood spotting empty vape carts and counterfeit empty Juul pods."

Yeah that's the article,,,, everyone should scroll way down to see Skid Row,

 

[Katya]

Yeah that's the article,,,, everyone should scroll way down to see Skid Row,

Right. Alas, no cops, no FDA and CDC agents, no HHS--no law enforcement investigating and shutting down those rat holes. I guess they must be busy raiding vape shops in Massachusetts.

 

[AttyPops]

Given that link, I can see why they're cautious about saying "it's only THC/CBD carts". They don't want to miss something else. I think the CDC DID say to absolutely avoid THC/CBD vaping, particularly from street vendors but also ask in the shops or just avoid vaping it altogether.

 

[bombastinator]

I've seen so many articles,,, most interesting was one with pics of Skid Row (??) Of LA,,, TONS of product boxes etc ready for dealers to buy & fill. You have to believe the local police are involved in distribution of the tainted vapes. Hell for all we know the government arranged the whole event.

I’m getting more the impression that it was Shanzahi stuff where unscrupulous people in China were making bad stuff and shipping it. Wherever it came from BT found its super thin so far as I can tell basically false excuse to destroy vaping and foist the iQuos that no one wants on us.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

I wish that truth was the priority. I've read about and watched movies on how the goverment handled the cultural revolution of the 1960's. I'm not old enough to have experienced it though.

There have been many improvements in our society since that time, which I'm grateful for. This whole crisis we are dealing with now is not as serious as everything that happened in the 60's, but it is happening right now. That makes it personal, and it hits harder when it's personal.

What is happening isn't just killing businesses, ending jobs, and removing a life-saving tobacco alternative from the public. They're also killing the vaping culture as we know it, and forcing honest citizens into choosing between possibly becoming outlaws, or reverting to a deadly habit. Cruel and unusual comes to mind.

I know that the majority of current regulations being passed are mostly flavor bans per individual states right now, but there's no way it will stop there. By the time the FDA deeming comes around the federal government won't even need to regulate. This an all out war against vaping, and by extension vapers, and it won't stop until they want it to stop.

Even though President Trump reversed his statement condemning flavors, making the statement in the first place has done more damage than can easily be repaired.

Sick as it is, children are being used as ammunition in this war. I wonder if the general public knows how badly they are being manipulated right now, or if most people even care? Are the majority of parents and children aware they are being used as pawns on a political chessboard?

If the largest percentage of children are using cigalikes or equipment/materials procured and available outside of adult only establishments, removing these products from the establishments that are supplying them, using stings and other established proven methods, and stepping up enforcement on the laws already on the books makes sense. Killing brick and mortars does not.

Banning vaping because it appeals to youth as well as adults, is like banning sex or alcohol because it appeals to teenagers. They are both potentially harmful, are not approved for minors. Laws are on the books that are meant to prevent illegal use from happening. The laws we currently have don't stop this behavior from happening, and neither will a ban. A ban is just more law(s).

Are these issues that need to be handled differently than they currently are? Is this posturing being used to distract from the utter ineffectiveness legislation/legislators have had on the betterment of society? Have things gotten so out of control there are no good solutions, just bandaids?

 

[Katya]

I’m getting more the impression that it was Shanzahi stuff where unscrupulous people in China were making bad stuff and shipping it.

I suggest you read the article again before you start bashing China. Shenzhen manufactures empty plastic cartridges--our home grown crooks fill them up with lethal crap.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Below is a long investigative article about the THC carto connection. I don't believe anything the CDC or FDA says about vaping. They have an agenda. Regardless some bad stuff that shouldn't be there got into the liquid of these unlucky people. The CDC is never going to disclose the source of this problem because they want to scare as many people as possible. I'm sick of them.
Journey of a Tainted Vape Cartridge: From China’s Labs to Your Lungs

That was a good article, @sofarsogood . I mean, really good. Seriously, you know this stuff goes on, but they really did a great job of detailing it...real journalism. To be honest, I'm not that naive (or so I thought). But I know people that vape this stuff, and I never thought about it much, and kind of assumed until recently the bulk of it came smuggled from legal states, like Colorado. Outside of dispensaries (and even some of them have been implicated- hey, profit!), probably a large percentage is made very unscrupulously. In the coke days, you only worried that what you bought was cut enough that it'd be weaker - not that the cutting agent could kill you.

A shame that not a single mainstream source does this kind of reporting anymore. Haven't done the stuff for decades, but if I did, I'd go back to rolling joints, and hoping (like we used to) that no bad pesticides had been sprayed on it. If I Juuled, it'd make me never buy a "clone" pod again.

 

[bombastinator]

I wish that truth was the priority. I've read about and watched movies on how the goverment handled the cultural revolution of the 1960's. I'm not old enough to have experienced it though.

There have been many improvements in our society since that time, which I'm grateful for. This whole crisis we are dealing with now is not as serious as everything that happened in the 60's, but it is happening right now. That makes it personal, and it hits harder when it's personal.

What is happening isn't just killing businesses, ending jobs, and removing a life-saving tobacco alternative from the public. They're also killing the vaping culture as we know it, and forcing honest citizens into choosing between possibly becoming outlaws, or reverting to a deadly habit. Cruel and unusual comes to mind.

I know that the majority of current regulations being passed are mostly flavor bans per individual states right now, but there's no way it will stop there. By the time the FDA deeming comes around the federal government won't even need to regulate. This an all out war against vaping, and by extension vapers, and it won't stop until they want it to stop.

Even though President Trump reversed his statement condemning flavors, making the statement in the first place has done more damage than can easily be repaired.

Sick as it is, children are being used as ammunition in this war. I wonder if the general public knows how badly they are being manipulated right now, or if most people even care? Are the majority of parents and children aware they are being used as pawns on a political chessboard?

If the largest percentage of children are using cigalikes or equipment/materials procured and available outside of adult only establishments, removing these products from the establishments that are supplying them, using stings and other established proven methods, and stepping up enforcement on the laws already on the books makes sense. Killing brick and mortars does not.

Banning vaping because it appeals to youth as well as adults, is like banning sex or alcohol because it appeals to teenagers. They are both potentially harmful, are not approved for minors. Laws are on the books that are meant to prevent illegal use from happening. The laws we currently have don't stop this behavior from happening, and neither will a ban. A ban is just more law(s).

Are these issues that need to be handled differently than they currently are? Is this posturing being used to distract from the utter ineffectiveness legislation/legislators have had on the betterment of society? Have things gotten so out of control there are no good solutions, just bandaids?

The plan seems to be to replace e-cigarettes with iQos. It’s all round inferior in literally every way, primarily as a cessation device, but they’re claiming it’s impossible to adulterate and that seems to be what BT is hanging it’s hat on. It’s basically the SAME technology though. Merely more poorly done. It uses the same ingredients. It’s merely that the “wick” is shredded sheet tobacco.

Oh. And it’s basically a nic wax sprayed on. Remember all the problems with those and why no one uses them?

I personally don’t believe there will be a whit of actual safety found here. It may actually be worse.

Except of course the people controlling the marketerscience will Be BT. They’ll control it all.

This I think is why the media tsunami. It’s going to have bigger problems than vapes did. BT is going to have to have legislation in place to protect it’s position. They want things to happen really fast.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I suggest you read the article again before you start bashing China. Shenzhen manufactures empty plastic cartridges--our home grown crooks fill them up with lethal crap.

Amen. Shenzen makes the carts, US fills them. China's only making what we want to buy. But hey, they're not angels. I didn't know they "washed" the carts with diesel fuel!

I originally thought the vit E acetate was used to make them thick enough to vape. Interesting to learn that it was to increase viscosity because that's the property that buyers looked for to try to judge purity of THC extract. And the Honey Cut, etc. history.

 

[Baditude]

It is quite out of the ordinary how the CDC has been handling this lung crisis. I hear reports that the CDC told physicians NOT to order illicit drug screens on patients presenting with these symptoms. Why? That would ordinarily be medical protocal. This is beginning to read like a Robin Cook medical novel. It sounds real fishy how the CDC is handling this crisis. Their slow release of even the smallest of details is giving policy makers plenty of time to enact unecessary bans fed by a fearmongering media frenzy. Rest assured, whoever manufactured these tainted THC carts, there are still thousands still on the street to be sold to dumb kids.

 

[Katya]

I am starting to wonder about knock off (fake) Juul carts coming in from China or is anyone in the US making fake Juul carts? If you can believe that the Georgia guy only used nicotine...

Me too, Jingles. The question is where and how the poison gets into those carts--if it indeed does. Millions of people worldwide, including yours truly, have been using Chinese e-liquids and flavorings for almost 12 years now--Hangsen, Joyetech, Dekang, etc.--and nobody ever got sick, never. So why now?

Pot is a different conversation altogether.

 

[AttyPops]

I hear reports...

Uh, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof....

Link?

 

[bombastinator]

That was a good article, @sofarsogood . I mean, really good. Seriously, you know this stuff goes on, but they really did a great job of detailing it...real journalism. To be honest, I'm not that naive (or so I thought). But I know people that vape this stuff, and I never thought about it much, and kind of assumed until recently the bulk of it came smuggled from legal states, like Colorado. Outside of dispensaries (and even some of them have been implicated- hey, profit!), probably a large percentage is made very unscrupulously. In the coke days, you only worried that what you bought was cut enough that it'd be weaker - not that the cutting agent could kill you.

A shame that not a single mainstream source does this kind of reporting anymore. Haven't done the stuff for decades, but if I did, I'd go back to rolling joints, and hoping (like we used to) that no bad pesticides had been sprayed on it. If I Juuled, it'd make me never buy a "clone" pod again.

They do them. Fairly frequently even. The issue is that if there’s ever an instance when they don’t they get wildly jumped on and people are yelled at to never listen to them again but instead go to this handy “alternative” propaganda source that basically never does stuff like that but will cater to their personal biases lovingly.

 

[AttyPops]

So why now?

Well,
1) we KNOW vit-e stuff is an issue, and we know it really started hitting the market end of last year/start of this year.
2) If there's also "something else" it's coincidental timing.

I mean, I've eaten lettuce my whole life, but I could still get listeria from a contaminated salad now. It all depends on who/what/when/where.

 

[Baditude]

I wonder how many former BT or BP executives are in the CDC and FDA? And vice versa? I bet a lot. One happy family. How many years did BT and the FDA lie about all the additives put into tobacco to make so addictive? How soon we forget.

 

[Katya]

Well,
1) we KNOW vit-e stuff is an issue, and we know it really started hitting the market end of last year/start of this year.

But Juul carts are not used for THC/CBD oils, are they? I thought that even the fakes were filled with e-juice--nic only + PG and VG and flavoring. Why would they add Vit. E acetate to nicotine vapes????