A Question of Ethics

[xanderxman]

I'd be more interested in any hardware they managed to come up with, but if they made eliquids.... oo00oo .... I'd be mighty suspicious of that stuff;

Wouldn't surprise me if they managed to get the usgov to make them the only legit supplier of usp grade nicotine.

Why would you buy anything they produced? Any form of support puts money in their pockets. I am sure the hardware they come up with will only work with their proprietary cartos and would self-destruct if you attempted to refill them with your own liquid.

We need to stop supporting what BT and BP do. They run this game because there are too many sheeple who are willing to follow the rules. Change comes when people are ...... enough to stand up and say STOP!!!!

 

[PeppermintPatty]

Ethically, I do not have a problem with the concept of purchasing from Big Tobacco. I love vaping the way it is now with the small juice dealers, and I will buy from them as long as they produce a good, affordable product. Big Tobacco is already getting in on the action, what role they will ultimately play remains to be seen, and a lot of it is going to depend on how vaping laws take shape I suppose, they will affect everyone to some extent.

 

[Taowulf]

A couple of previous post stated that big tobacco never did anything to create a safer product.

As I recall reading, sometime in the 90s that they had created a safer product. They decided not to market it because a safer product would indicate that the product they were marketing would be deemed as unsafe.

Sorry, no references to this.

And no, I won't be buying any tobacco companies product ever again, regardless of what it is. (I still wear my Marlboro Swiss Army Watch though. 2000 coupons IIRC.)

Are you talking about the smokeless cigarette that was part of the plot of "Barbarians at the Gate" starring James Garner? The smokeless cigarette that allegedly tasted horrible when lit with anything other than a match? That was hilarious.

 

[StephenMulkey]

It's not really murder, at least in the USA and most of the western world since 1964. It's more of assisted suicide. You can't blame the gun company if you buy the gun knowing if you put it to your forehead and shoot it will kill you.

That's a horrible analogy. Guns are not a addictive substance. Gun makers also put safeties on their guns sell locking cases and lock boxes. There are gun safety and gun awareness classes. It's a terrible analogy trying to debate a nonexistant point. Big tobacco sells poison. Do you also defend people who deal heavy narcotics? I suppose they are free of all guilt too because obviously users of narcotics know they are bad for them right?

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

Are you talking about the smokeless cigarette that was part of the plot of "Barbarians at the Gate" starring James Garner? The smokeless cigarette that allegedly tasted horrible when lit with anything other than a match? That was hilarious.

No, I wasn't but I had a couple of cartons of those and I don't remember the brand. I could smoke them all day in my office in a non smoking building. No one was the wiser. They were way more expensive than your run of the mill Marlboro Light 100s, back in the day.

 

[stevegmu]

Nobody forced me to smoke. I loved it. Smoking was cool- like tattoos are today... I probably still would if it were relatively harmless. I'll try their e-liquid and cigalikes, if they make something which looks interesting...

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

Addiction forced me to smoke. BT did everything they could to make them as addictive and as hard to quit smoking as possible.

 

[xanderxman]

Nobody forced me to smoke. I loved it. Smoking was cool- like tattoos are today... I probably still would if it were relatively harmless. I'll try their e-liquid and cigalikes, if they make something which looks interesting...

This forum is quickly becoming its own enemy. Why would you support the same people who are trying to put an end to vaping as we know it? Sure, it sounds good to say BT has gotten into the vaping game. But to what end? They are looking to ban anything they don't sell. We will be stuck with cig-a-likes using subpar liquids with potentially who knows what in them. Find a list of cigarette ingredients and see if what you are inhaling suits you.

I can't fathom a vaper on ECF that would support anything BT or BP would sell. Guess I am either a misguided idiot or someone who sees the truth. I wouldn't trust my own worst enemy if they offered me a pie so why would I trust anything BT or BP has to offer?

But I guess as long as you can have the next cool thing then why really worry about it?

 

[stevegmu]

This forum is quickly becoming its own enemy. Why would you support the same people who are trying to put an end to vaping as we know it? Sure, it sounds good to say BT has gotten into the vaping game. But to what end? They are looking to ban anything they don't sell. We will be stuck with cig-a-likes using subpar liquids with potentially who knows what in them. Find a list of cigarette ingredients and see if what you are inhaling suits you.

I can't fathom a vaper on ECF that would support anything BT or BP would sell. Guess I am either a misguided idiot or someone who sees the truth. I wouldn't trust my own worst enemy if they offered me a pie so why would I trust anything BT or BP has to offer?

But I guess as long as you can have the next cool thing then why really worry about it?

I don't buy the BT boogeyman hype...

 

[omyeyes]

NO, Big Fat NO!!

 

[xanderxman]

I don't buy the BT boogeyman hype...

You not buying it doesn't make it false. I didn't buy the rug at WalMart, on sale. But it was there.

 

[jwoode]

I would rather put a cigarette out in my.... than to give any of them one more dime.

 

[HauntedMyst]

That's a horrible analogy. Guns are not a addictive substance. Gun makers also put safeties on their guns sell locking cases and lock boxes. There are gun safety and gun awareness classes. It's a terrible analogy trying to debate a nonexistant point. Big tobacco sells poison. Do you also defend people who deal heavy narcotics? I suppose they are free of all guilt too because obviously users of narcotics know they are bad for them right?

I think it makes sense to most people, you might not get it and need to think it through some more. We've been warned that cigarettes are addictive and will kill you for the 50 years and if you started smoking any time in the last 50 years, you knew you were taking part in a dangerous activity that causes cancer and kills. Hell, it's even printed on the side of the pack. There was a time when cigarette companies touted the health benefits of smoking but that time has long come and gone. In the same vein, not every one takes gun safety classes and not every gun owner uses a safe or uses a safety lock on their guns. Should they? Absolutely. Do they? No. Still, if you treat a loaded gun without the proper respect, you know it can hurt you or someone else. As for narcotics, no I don't defend the pushers. I didn't "defend" big tobacco. If you smoke narcotics, you are the idiot. The pusher is a criminal and should be jailed but that doesn't diminish the fact that the user is the idiot. Who is a bigger fool, the fool or the fool who profits from him? Most of us vapers were idiots at one point in our lives for smoking.

 

[RosaJ]

For me it's not a matter of ethics at all. If the only choice I had was to pay at least $10 for a pre-filled cartridge that I know is only going to last me 2 or 3 hours and have "them" spew that it's equivalent to a pack of cigarettes they would certainly not get my business.

 

[MikeE87]

Only if they would come up with an elite e-liquid product that tested safe by other vapors. If there liquid were the same quality as everyone else, I would defintely not buy.

 

[jwag1973]

Being I enjoy Casablanca, Tribeca and Boba's much better than any cig I've ever smoked, I'd say no! I doubt they'd care what I liked, and probably load the liquid with chemicals like they do the analogs.

 

[StephenMulkey]

I think it makes sense to most people, you might not get it and need to think it through some more. We've been warned that cigarettes are addictive and will kill you for the 50 years and if you started smoking any time in the last 50 years, you knew you were taking part in a dangerous activity that causes cancer and kills. Hell, it's even printed on the side of the pack. There was a time when cigarette companies touted the health benefits of smoking but that time has long come and gone. In the same vein, not every one takes gun safety classes and not every gun owner uses a safe or uses a safety lock on their guns. Should they? Absolutely. Do they? No. Still, if you treat a loaded gun without the proper respect, you know it can hurt you or someone else. As for narcotics, no I don't defend the pushers. I didn't "defend" big tobacco. If you smoke narcotics, you are the idiot. The pusher is a criminal and should be jailed but that doesn't diminish the fact that the user is the idiot. Who is a bigger fool, the fool or the fool who profits from him? Most of us vapers were idiots at one point in our lives for smoking.

You missed the whole point about what I was saying about guns. The gun manufacturers at least try to make their product safer. There are options out there. There is no safer cigarette. They actually purposely avoided making a safer cigarette. I and most people know how dangerous cigarettes are now, but can you really say that 10 or 15 years ago? In the modern age of high speed internet and smart devices information spreads like wild fire, but this wasn't always the case. Did I know they were bad for me? Yeah, but so was cheesecake. Did I know there were 4,000 chemicals in them? .... no, and I don't think I'm alone. You also seem to know little of addiction if you think it's just a dumb choice to use drugs. People fall in to addictions it happens so fast you don't even realize it. Drugs and cigarettes are pushed on people through media and in social situations. You completely ignore there use of subliminal marketing, and put full blame on the user. When in fact the user is a victim of greedy evil men who manipulate the system and the minds of people everywhere in order to legally sell addictive poison.

 

[stevegmu]

People who choose to do things they know are bad for them are simply victims of their own stupidity. I was, as was every other former smoker who started within the past 40 years...
The utter lack of responsibility for ones' own actions is why we are becoming a nanny state...

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

People who choose to do things they know are bad for them are simply victims of their own stupidity. I was, as was every other former smoker who started within the past 40 years...

Phew, I'd have been offended with this post had I not started smoking over 47 years ago.

Back then Camels were "Doctor Recommended."

 

[StephenMulkey]

People who choose to do things they know are bad for them are simply victims of their own stupidity. I was, as was every other former smoker who started within the past 40 years...
The utter lack of responsibility for ones' own actions is why we are becoming a nanny state...

Well that's just like your opinion man.