--From OSHA we know what chemicals are commonly used to create certain flavors in the food flavoring industry.
https://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib10142010.html.
--We know that virtually all vaping flavors
are food flavorings (and fall under the regulations & industry standards for the same).
--We know that when FA & TFA tested their flavors adequately (and the results are available on TFA's
Spec Sheets & Components), that the results match what OSHA lists.
--We can see that FW flat-out lied regarding the contents of their flavors.
--We know that some major manufacturers/vendors (like Capellas & LorAnn) readily admit to using diketones, when directly asked (afterall, they are food flavors and those chemical are 'industry standard' and GRAS for ingestion), but they either haven't tested their flavors at the specific levels needed, or haven't made the test results/ingredient lists-amounts available...so the the presence of 'inhalation risk chemicals' is unknown to most vapers.
--We know that many of VZ's Gourmet line contain diacetyl, but that is not dislcosed to buyers.
--We know that many of these flavors do cause various levels of irritation (from reports of the same on ECF, our own personal experience, and reports on the internet).
--We know we can taste these flavors, and have been trained how to do so by Linda at TFA. It is safe to assume that when we can taste these chemicals (and we have a very valid source of information for comparison, like TFAs Component list and the OSHA list), that we have a very credible reason to question vendors about the content of their flavors.
The question that should be asked, is does anyone have any credible evidence to cause anyone to think these chemicals are
not present in food flavors being sold for vaping?
Reports on ecf, our own experience, and people just posting "I can taste it" is not science.
You have the right to question, but that is not CREDIBLE SCIENCE. What you are listing is akin to bullet points built for talking points, more political than factual (me done phd work).
We respect your right to feel & believe whatever you feel & believe. But it is not 'fear mongering' or 'witch hunting' to want to know (yea, even demand solid evidence) of what chemicals are in what we inhale into our lungs...especially not when it has been proven that certain chemicals that are commonly used ARE inhalation risks.
Demanding is in fact witch hunting. Asking is one thing. How can you demand? Just don't buy. But unless you plan on some public unrest protests, demanding from businesses, requires government intervention, I was under the belief you were not in favor of the FDA intervention. The interviews from vp live team that everyone likes to quote (go to the test results @ 1:21, conveniently bypassing vapinggreeks guest speaking that's WHY we need FDA regulation), you oppose FDA intervention?
Edit: There is certainly nothing wrong with letting other vapers known which vendors have tested/disclosed the inhalation risk chemicals in their juices...or that FA has gone to the immense expense to support the vaping community by reformulating their flavors to be free of the same.
Methinks that has been the basis behind a lot of this (which brings us back to "EVEN DEMAND" (yes, I remember khan on the star trek movies), is more a rallying cry than a well thought out rebuttal.
We assume you're referring to MBV (underlined "they" above). Are you an official representative of MBV? MBV assigned you to publicize what you're saying?
Of course, anyone disagreeing with the basic premise, must be working for them (hey, I don't even affiliate for anyone, how bout wethinks?)
Perhaps people are "afraid" of inhaling chemicals that are proven to be inhalation risks. There's certainly nothing wrong with that...particularly not in the world of vaping where the intense use of the food flavorings has only been prevalent for a handful of years. (Yes, e-cigs go back further, but the earlier 'flavors' were primarily tobacco). Just like with alcohol and/or smoking tobacco, many people do recognize that serious harm may not be seen or recognized for years. Hence, they may be alarmed to find that the food flavors they're ingesting into their lungs may indeed contain chemicals that are known 'inhalation risks'.
It's one thing to have your own views , but your demands, and the insistence it's your responsibility to protect us from ourselves, hhhmm, just interjecting a thought here, but that does sound a tad hedonistic (the feeling I got towards the end of this thread, and not so much in your older posts).
If testing hadn't been done on your produce & foods, and proper identification, standards and labeling been demanded...you wouldn't know what was organic and what was not. If there weren't an 'ingredient list' on household cleaning/other products, you wouldn't know what was in them so that you would have the ability to make an informed choice.
Again, assumption. I make all my own household supplies, dish detergent, cleaner, shampoo, laundry detergent, alternative bleach, , floor cleaner, etc. I actually make my own informed choice by making it myself. And I buy whole foods, so there is no ingredient list. The cats get canned (okay, I do get plain hummus to mix, and I do eat tortillas instead of bread, but I din't use the crock pot for steeping). Yep, part of that phd work involved human physiology and biochemistry. But, it was done in the 80's, yet the economic collapse I predicted using the bell curve for 2010 was DANG close.
The products & foods we eat have at leaset SOME level of "regulation" and testing/disclosure requirements that forces sellers to reveal certain chemicals. But "food flavors" fall under the FDA "GRAS for ingestion" rule...and that means that levels known to be harmful for inhalation can be included in the flavorings without any type of specific testing or disclosure.
Actually, the acetoins and other diketones transforming into diacetyl, exactly how we're they supposed to test for that? Some diketones simply evolve as part of a chemical reaction (using any bleach in your household?)
No one in this thread (including us) are to blame for NIOSH's safe exposure levels. Nor is any poster responsible for the fact that testing 'beyond the typical' is required to reveal the amounts that exceed safe exposure levels. However, there are two manufacture/vendors that have had the integrity to take it upon themselves to recognize this issue, and provide the information necessary that will allow vapers to make a truly informed choice. Those that haven't, should have already.
Once again, are you looking to build a coalition here? I don't know you. You are adding fuel to the side that wants to get rid of flavors. Be careful what you wish for. Letting us know was great, but YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP (hence, what is behind this effort?)
We don't "own" this thread, nor do we represent anyone but ourselves. If there are posters that have been hurt or offended at the lack of responses, then they're free to say so. If posters have disagreed with the basic ideas, concerns, and/or facts presented in this thread, then other posters have responded (or not) 'as they will'. We2 certainly have no need to enter into discusions about others 'beliefs & opinions' when we disagree with them. We're doing our best to stick with the facts.
From my above remarks, it feels like you do. When anyone challenges you, down come the bricks, and the bullet points, and the"YOU ARE RIGHT", and someone else must have an agenda, because you certainly don't (not, and that WE stuff gets REALLY old after many, many long posts repeating the same stuff. Wethinks (me and the cats, note the word me), that the cuteness has worn off, you really like the NSA stuff, or someone needs to separate you at birth.
What you call an "obsession", we call the basic human right to know what it in the substances they intend to buy & inhale...so they have the right to make an informed choice. What you call Vangirl's "taking it beyond" (when exposing diacetyl levels in the millions of ppb from a vendor that claims "diacetyl free") was what most would refer to as simply 'exposing the truth', again, so that every vaper in the vaping community could have the simple right to make an informed choice as to what chemicals they inhale...rather than dousing themselves with very high levels of diacetyl unknowingly.
Okay, basic human rights, shouldn't have smoked in the first place, again be careful what you wish for, FDA will take care of that for you (democrat, republican, libertarian, abstaining?) and, again you didn't read. Vangirl wasn't taking it beyond, wethinks was (do be careful with the reading comprehension, helps in discerning scientific data and FDA proposals, you know, the documents that matter at the moment?)
Some of us had enough of that kind of crap from Big Tobacco. Perhaps people that were concerned about the chemicals & additives to cigarettes were also called "fear mongers" and "witch hunters" back in the day. Wethinks it's pathetic that people who 7recognize the dangers of toxic chemicals, do nothing about it themselves (or attack others that are doing something).
Le basic psychology 101, we hate most in others what we hate of ourselves. I'm not attacking you (well, the wethinks is getting really old). I'm attacking your premise and pseudo science. And when folks have demands, believe they know for others what are basic human rights (instead of focusing within, but hey, smokers are/were addicts, so nothing to work on the inside huh?), and keep fear mongering with false allegations (no proof, and this is a virgin industry, but wethinks is gonna fix it), it's more like starting a war. What did I choose to do when quit smoking? Do a little web work, work on my fico scores, study and invest more in the market, and try to relearn all new routines (yes, quitting, even if smoking 5 a day like I did, interrupts many routines built over the years.)
And accusations without sound basis, demands, and you know better than the general populace, is fear mongering, not a comparison of your angelic stance that you are fighting the war against big tobacco in the early days (or, why did YOU, not WE, start smoking?)
PS, I also make own hair rinse, face scrub and moisturizer, deodorant, and anything else that you need to buy (heck, watch Mo Impact Man for some good ideas, though I was making most of my supplies before that movie came out). And I do eat cheese, which also lists ingredients, but will eventually make own hummus base.
PPS, this is dang hard on an iPad 2.
