Addiction to nicotine vs. addiction to the act of smoking/vaping

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Laktos

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Oct 12, 2012
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Hey again everyone,

I've recently been having some interesting revelations regarding smoking, vaping, and the way my brain relates to tobacco in general. One of things that's made it kind of difficult to pin down exactly what I find appealing is that I really don't have a constant urge to smoke/vape, etc. My desire to participate in addictive behaviors is so conditional, I find that I can only really tell if something is satisfying a need, as opposed to allowing me to do something purely out of habit, if I'm in a particular state of mind. It's pretty much the same with everything. I'll go weeks or months without drinking or smoking and not miss it at all, but once I get into a particular frame of mind, I feel an intense need for those things.

Anyway, what prompted my thinking about this is that I recently ran out of juice and cleaned cartomizers (burned cartomizer filler really is the worst), so I decided to buy a pack of snus. I'd never tried it before, so I figured it would be an interesting experiment, especially since I don't want to incur the financial or health costs of cigarettes anymore. I've had a bit of vodka now and was reading about some things that made me go into thinking mode, and now I'm finding that I really want to smoke or vape. I have three snus packets in my mouth right now, because I wanted to make sure I was getting enough nicotine so I could determine whether I was craving nicotine and whatever short term MAOIs are in tobacco, or whether I was just craving the activity.

I'm finding that even with three snus, I currently still have a strong desire for an inhalation based delivery system. I'm thinking that, to some degree, the neurological circuitry that allows me to quit smoking so easily is also responsible for my failure to recognize a non-inhalation based delivery system as a satisfactory experience. One of the things that I notice when I stop smoking/vaping is that I definitely do go through withdrawal symptoms; I get irritable for no reason, eat more, etc., but interestingly, even though I can clearly recognize that on an intellectual level as a symptom of nicotine withdrawal, my brain doesn't translate that into a need to smoke. So I think that, for me, the actual physical act of putting something up to my mouth and feeling something fill my lungs has become so intimately connected to whatever pleasurable effects it has that my body and brain have come to so strongly associate that action with pleasurable effects that the actual direct action of nicotine and tobacco alkaloids becomes secondary.

I'm also still taking into account the possibility that I have a pretty high nicotine tolerance and need to hit a pretty high threshold in order to trigger a recognition that it's actually in my system, but even so, I realize that I'd still prefer 12mg juice to having snus in my mouth. Just as an experiment, I'm thinking of switching to just snusing for about a week to see if my brain will be able to reassociate with that delivery method, but I still find it interesting that I want to smoke so much right now despite having adequate nicotine.

Anyway, what have your experiences been like? I'm particularly interested in people who were heavy smokers but have now switched to low-nicotine juice. Do you still find it as satisfying? I remember as a kid, I simply couldn't understand why anyone would want to smoke. Similarly, I now don't really understand the feeling of needing a cup of coffee in the morning, etc. Part of it, I know, is just the way the brain wires itself in adolescence and early adulthood. I know this is something that differs greatly between different people, but it's still interesting to hear about individual experiences.do you guys think?
 

tc1

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There are two kinds of addiction ...

Mental dependency and chemical dependency. In actuality, mental dependency CAN be a chemical dependency due to the chemicals released in the brain triggered by a stimulus. What you'll find is the ACT of smoking is habit forming, which over long periods of time can become a mental dependency in itself.

Simply put .. your brain becomes "re-wired" and conditioned to certain habits. When those habits are broken, you can go through mental withdrawal.
 

catoliver

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When I started vaping 3+ months ago, I started at 24 mg nic. After 6 weeks, I ordered all 18 mg nic. I didn't vape more after the switch in levels. But last month, I swtiched to 12 mg nic and I was vaping like a fiend! Kind of like I did in the beginning when I first started. After about 2 weeks, I settled back down to regular vaping. I don't think I'll be going any lower than 12 mg nic anytime soon!
 

Thrasher

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I found im more addicted to the act/feeling of smoking rather then the chemicals. every time I quit using the gum i was over nic in about 2 weeks, but just wanted to smoke just for smoking when I finally realized no matter what I do, i just cant stop smoking for the sake of smoking i looked into vaping and its been a blessing.
 

tc1

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I found im more addicted to the act/feeling of smoking rather then the chemicals. every time I quit using the gum i was over nic in about 2 weeks, but just wanted to smoke just for smoking when I finally realized no matter what I do, i just cant stop smoking for the sake of smoking i looked into vaping and its been a blessing.


Yup! Chemical dependency can be managed through chemical substitution. Mental dependency is much ... much more trickier. That's why they say "once an addict always an addict". You can get past the chemical dependencies of your body and become completely detoxed. Mental relapses are MUCH harder to contain because it's "what your brain wants". And that desire can come at ANY time for no apparent reason what-so-ever.
 
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DC2

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The act of smoking was pleasurable, soothing, and relaxing.
Even if you are still getting nicotine, it is not at all unusual to miss those other aspects.

That's the whole reason vaping works while the gum and patches don't work.
:)

I do believe there are many smokers that are strongly addicted to the nicotine.
But I also believe that there are many smokers that are much more addicted to the habit.
 

Thrasher

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The act of smoking was pleasurable, soothing, and relaxing.
Even if you are still getting nicotine, it is not at all unusual to miss those other aspects.

That's the whole reason vaping works while the gum and patches don't work.
:)

I do believe there are many smokers that are strongly addicted to the nicotine.
But I also believe that there are many smokers that are much more addicted to the habit.

totally agree, grew up in a house full of chain smokers, every family member smoked, started at 13 myself, been through some bad sh..... er stuff in my life, no matter what my little buddy was always there for me, never complained just said here I am friend! now 35 years of that and suddenly tell myself they got to go? my brain said whaiiiiit whoa, beep beep, back the truck up buddy. not gonna happen! once i realized I can't put them down, I looked into vaping, and to this day im still amazed at how fast I left the smokes behind.
I know some people have to go slow, but I think this for most of them it is them fighting with the image of no more cigs in their heads. rather then the act of vaping yet still getting a fix.
 

infoimp

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That's me, more addicted to the habit than the nicotine. After 5 months, I was down to 0 nic, but I vaped like a train. I've moved back up to 5-6 mg and now feel satisfied. But I don't know how long I'll have to vape or if I'll ever get to quit.

It's mental, physical AND social for me. Getting to take a break outside was a big thing, though I don't have to go out anymore. I vape inside at work and at home. Having something in my hand, feeling something warm fill my lungs, a burst of flavor in my mouth are still very important.

There's also an element of having to keep up with it all. Before it was make sure you got cigs. Now, it's make sure you got juice for as long as you're gonna be gone, and batteries to last the whole time too. If not, put the charger in the bag. Are you gonna need an extra tank? Is that atty gonna last, better grab an extra.

I don't think I'd know what to do if it was just grab the keys and go!
 

RoseB

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When I went to chewing tobacco the first time 6 years ago the first day was twitchy. After that I was set. Then I ran out of skoal and didn't have any money. You wanna talk about hell on earth. There it was dip not Swedish snus has a crap ton more nic. Like 4 and a half cigarettes worth. Switched back to smoking a couple times. Each time it was about 3 packs a day. Until last time it was a pack a day. That was over four months ago. Then went to vaporizing. It has been a little over 2 months. Can feel even a small drop in nic. Went from 18 mgs to 16 and it still bothered me. Oh well vaping is hopefully a means to a nicotine end.
 

Old Curmudgeon

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It's all about the nic and the physical act for me. I have a KGo, Inferno
and a Lambo, but sometimes (like right now) I want to smoke an analog
clone so I break out my 808 and vape away.

Also I'm conditioned to smoke outside, so sometimes I vape my 808
outside and watch the rain. :thumb:
 

RoseB

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It's all about the nic and the physical act for me. I have a KGo, Inferno
and a Lambo, but sometimes (like right now) I want to smoke an analog
clone so I break out my 808 and vape away.

Also I'm conditioned to smoke outside, so sometimes I vape my 808
outside and watch the rain. :thumb:

How are you liking that Inferno? I wanted to pick one up. Still can't make up my mind on wether or to buy that or work on quiting vaping:unsure:
 

grandmato5

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Way back when I started smoking I smoked when I felt like it and didn't touch a cigarette if I didn't feel like it. For about my first seven years of smoking it was entirely my choice without addiction if I smoked or not. I sometimes wondered what changed about me or the cigarettes to make me addicted after that length of time. Fast forward almost 30 years to when I gave up smoking and switched to vaping :) Four months after my last cigarette I realized I'd lost my addiction to nicotine. :) There is no doubt in my mind that the additives in the cigarettes were what caused my addiction to smoking far more then the actual nicotine. Today I still sometimes choose to enjoy using some low level nicotine in my juice and other times I'm more then happy to vape o mg juice but theres no doubt in my mind that I continue to vape mostly because of a continued addiction to the actions of smoking that I get to enjoy while vaping :)
 

Butters78

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I quit smoking back in 2010 with snus and nasal snuff. I did miss the ritual of of the hand to mouth so vaping fills that need nicely. I still use snus and snuff but hardly any snus. I'm working on quiting it. Just nasal snuff and vaping will do me fine.

What snus are you using? The American versions aren't that great. I only use the swedish brands. You might be able to find some locally. Go to www.generalsnus.com and use the store locator if you are interested.
 
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Laktos

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Oct 12, 2012
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A lot of interesting feedback here. I can also really relate to the idea of preparing your supply. I definitely have a few obsessive tendencies, so I like the idea of stocking up and having everything I need prepared. I will say that one of the greatest things about quitting smoking, though, was the freedom of never having to worry about how many cigarettes I had left. Digging through ashtrays in the house for usable salvage was never fun and always made me feel like an addict.

I'm using Camel snus right now. I assumed it would pale in comparison to real Swedish snus, but I saw it at a gas station and decided to give it a try on a whim (when I'd looked online, shipping was about $15). Thanks for the link! I've been wanting to try General, and it looks like there are actually some places quite close to me. I'll definitely check it out.

In what way do you think American snus is inferior, though? I would assume that Swedish snus is safer in terms of carcinogen content, etc., and I know that you get more with General than Camel, but what else is there? I must admit that I actually quite like the taste of the Camel. I bought the frost flavor, and I find it has a nice kind of salty sweet mint flavor. I would really like to try some traditionally flavored snus, though. I'm especially curious about bergamot, since I love earl grey.
 

Dr. Phill

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I noticed when I dropped my nicotine levels in my juice, I chain vaped a whole lot more. I also noticed that when leaving my e-cig at home and driving, after a few hours, I get a serious craving. I am pretty sure that's the nicotine addiction part right there, however, when at home on the computer, I feel a serious need for the hand to mouth part, so I think I'm stuck with both addictions yet, and the physical nicotine cravings are still very real to me.
 

Drael

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Id say they are pretty related notions.

Smoking is a quicker more immediate delivery system. This probably in itself makes different methods of consumption initially unsatisfying. Your body is expecting a different saturation and time frame from the nicotine.

The dopamine effects, condition certain behaviours, like a mouse that always gets food when it pushes a button, which makes the action - so that the behaviour becomes itself a trigger, like pavlovs dogs - which would also make different methods less satisfying..

But its not as if the two have no relation to the other. Would we do the ritual behaviour of vaping or smoking at all, if we had never had nicotine involved? Far less likely...

It seems with ciggerettes and nicotine, that rewarding actions of the chemicals become so familiar to our minds, and bodies (especially regarding tolerance), that we cease to pay as much attention to them, or their effects on us. Whereas if you go along time without them, and then have them again, you sure do notice.
 
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