Nicotine not addictive? Yeah right!

[cfm78910]

Hi Guys

It often comes up in replies to posts that nicotine is not addictive, or that there are studies that suggest that it isn't. I find that rather strange, to me it has DENIAL written all over it. I know there are substances other than nicotine that may also be addictive which explains why it is so difficult to quit smoking. However, I am still convinced nicotine is the main culprit. If nicotine is not addictive surely it must be possible to stop vaping cold turkey? How many of you would be able to do that? I know I couldn't. I know smoking addiction is a complex thing but I can't imagine having to go without my nic. Quitting vaping is definitely not on my radar at the moment, and probably not ever.

How do you feel about this?

Cheers.

Chris

 

[firerat]

Have you ever met anyone addicted to nicotine gum or patches?

From what I have seen around here, the general consensus is that nicotine is not AS addictive as once thought.

 

[Pinggolfer]

I was addicted to nicotine gum. I couldn't get enough of it and because of the price I went back to smoking, until I discovered vaping and I'm still addicted to nicotine.

 

[rgerber]

Pretty sure it's very addictive. It's had me since 1955 but vaping has replaced cigars and pipes and that works for me

 

[minitater]

Like any substance that has the potential to be addictive, it has to be personalized to the individual. Some things are more addictive to certain individuals than to others. We all know folks who can take or leave nicotine without the side effects others ( like myself) have. I know folks who are addicted to alcohol and many others who can take it or leave it.
What I am trying to say is that addiction must take in account the individual and not just the substance. Nicotine is obviously addictive to some and not to others. Also, when you talk about addiction, you must also consider the difference between physical and psychological addiction. They go hand in hand and they too vary from individual to individula.

 

[GrandPapa]

Hi,
I am a es-smoker of 58 years and I would say that altho' nicotine isn't as addictive as other substances
there is a dependency on Nicotine in the areas of the brain that it stimulates and therefore when one stops Nciotine
these areas react as they are accustomed to the stimulus. I can't remember of hand what areas are but they play a major role in ones disposition.
JIm
p.s. I know when I don't get the Nicotine from Vaping now I get cranky, restless edgy

 

[cfm78910]

I was addicted to nicotine gum. I couldn't get enough of it and because of the price I went back to smoking, until I discovered vaping and I'm still addicted to nicotine.

I was going to reply with exactly the same thing, almost word for word! I managed to quit smoking a few times using Nicorette but couldn't stop that either. I used truckloads of Nicorette and like you say it is very expensive. Went back to smoking every time because of the cost. Thanks to vaping I am off the gums but like you I am still addicted to nicotine.

 

[WattWick]

Hi Guys

It often comes up in replies to posts that nicotine is not addictive, or that there are studies that suggest that it isn't. I find that rather strange, to me it has DENIAL written all over it. I know there are substances other than nicotine that may also be addictive which explains why it is so difficult to quit smoking. However, I am still convinced nicotine is the main culprit. If nicotine is not addictive surely it must be possible to stop vaping cold turkey? How many of you would be able to do that? I know I couldn't. I know smoking addiction is a complex thing but I can't imagine having to go without my nic. Quitting vaping is definitely not on my radar at the moment, and probably not ever.

How do you feel about this?

Cheers.

Chris

For me the question is 'Why would I want to do that?'. Which would make it a lot harder for me to go cold turkey as I lack the motivation that got me off the ciggies. And as you touch upon, there is more to it than 'simply' substance addiction/dependence/love. Habits can be hard to break.

My very subjective opinion is that the hot potato has been passed on to our opposition. The burden of proof does not lie with me on whether nicotine is addictive or not. I am comfortable with my current lack of beast-like cravings for a smoke. Which to me says that vaping nicotine is not as addictive (to me) as smoking was. Good enough for me, and I'll have noone tell me I'm lying to myself.

We are, after all, not talking about a level of addiction that drives people to e.g. prostitution. I'm sure there is the odd exception... but that's for the internet to fight over.

 

[firerat]

You guys are literally the first 2 people I've ever heard say they are addicted to nic gum. And don't think I'm implying you are lying or anything, it's just new to me personally.

Learn something new everyday....

 

[Iffy]

Nicotine is many times in the top five list of addictive drugs; certainly in the top ten! Look it up...

 

[WattWick]

Nicotine is many times in the top five list of addictive drugs; certainly in the top ten! Look it up...

Is that nicotine or nicotine administered with a cocktail of MAOIs and other goodies?

Is this when the thread turns into a Sourcewars?

(Not trying to shoot you down. Just under the impression that most if not all current nicotine research isn't research on nicotine by itself.)

 

[Verb]

Nicotine is many times in the top five list of addictive drugs; certainly in the top ten! Look it up...

I think nicotine is addictive as I am addicted to it. But, those lists are based on a combination of all delivery methods of which most users choose smoking.

 

[DaveP]

Nicotine works to increase brain chemicals that result in pleasurable feelings and a sense of satisfaction. Chocolate and some controlled substances also act in the same way, but in varying levels. Nic IS addictive, but not nearly as addictive as what we experienced from smoking.

When we smoked, there were specific chemical compounds added to the tobacco to increase addiction and sell more product. The nic we get in our juice isn't nearly as addictive as the cocktail we received from smoking designer tobaccos from big tobacco companies. There's a desire to continue vaping, but we are able to taper down our nic levels from 24mg to 18mg to 12mg to 6mg and even to 0mg without much of a problem. I experienced virtually no cravings when I tapered down to 6mg in a little over one month.

THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM

Nicotine in Tobacco

Nicotine imitates the action of a natural neurotransmitter called acetylcholine and binds to a particular type of acetylcholine receptor, known as the nicotinic receptor.

Whether it is acetylcholine or nicotine that binds to this receptor, it responds in the same way: it changes its conformation, which causes its associated ion channel to open for a few milliseconds. This channel then allows sodium ions to enter the neuron, depolarizing the membrane and exciting the cell. Then the channel closes again, and the nicotinic receptor becomes temporarily unresponsive to any neurotransmitters. It is this state of desensitization that is artificially prolonged by continual exposure to nicotine.

Tobacco dependency, which then develops very quickly, arises because nicotinic receptors are present on the neurons of the ventral tegmental area which project their terminations into the nucleus accumbens. In smokers, repeated nicotine stimulation thus increases the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. Between cigarettes, however, chronic smokers maintain a high enough concentration of nicotine to deactivate the receptors and slow down their recovery. This is why smokers develop a tolerance to nicotine and experience reduced pleasure from it.

After a brief period without smoking (a night’s sleep, for example), the baseline concentration of nicotine drops again, and some of the receptors regain their sensitivity. When all these receptors become functional again, cholinergic neurotransmission is raised to an abnormally high level that affects all the cholinergic pathways in the brain. Smokers then experience the agitation and discomfort that leads them to smoke another cigarette.

Another substance in tobacco smoke, not yet clearly identified, inhibits monoamine oxydase B (MAO B), an enzyme that breaks down dopamine after its reuptake. The result is a higher concentration of dopamine in the reward circuit, which also contributes to the smoker’s dependency.

 

[Iffy]

Is that nicotine or nicotine administered with a cocktail of MAOIs and other goodies?

(Not trying to shoot you down. Just under the impression that most if not all current nicotine research isn't research on nicotine by itself.)

I was speaking of nicotine (a distinct drug sans MAOIs). In a couple of substance abuse lists, tobacco is second.

 

[Moaufan]

My Dr. and his office manager are addicted to nicotine gum and have been for years. He doesn't recommend it to his patients, now he suggests vaping.

 

[twgbonehead]

The important thing to note is that those studies which provide evidence that nicotine is not addictive come from studies of never-smokers or to be more accurate, never tobacco-users.

In those studies, patients who were administered nicotine for theraputic purposes did not show signs of withdrawal when the study ended, nor did they start smoking.

Tobacco is a complex mix of psychoactive chemicals (particularly cigarettes, where this cocktail is carefully crafted), and it does appear very likely that this mixture creates changes in brain chemistry that create or enhance the addictiveness of nicotine. These changes are very possibly long-lasting or perhaps permanent.

 

[DaveP]

Is that nicotine or nicotine administered with a cocktail of MAOIs and other goodies?

Is this when the thread turns into a Sourcewars?

(Not trying to shoot you down. Just under the impression that most if not all current nicotine research isn't research on nicotine by itself.)

The nic we experienced in cigarettes was laced with chemicals designed to freebase the nic and make it hit the system hard. A few hits and you could feel the relief out on the break area. Vaping isn't quite the same. We absorb most of the nic through mucous membranes in the mouth, throat, and sinuses. Nicotine from smoking went into the lungs carried on tiny ash particles. From the lungs it went to the heart and straight to the brain. Vaping nic mostly goes through the mucous membranes and on through a longer, slower process of venous absorption.

 

[Smokin' Iron]

Try the nicotine in smokeless tobacco like Skoal. Talk about addicting! One tin has the nicotine content of 4 packs of your average smokes. Plus it is a constant stream when you have it in your lip, not like a cigarette where the hit only lasts while your smoking it.

I will admit that there were many other gratifications associated with dipping for me other than the nicotine. I did like the taste and the convenience of being able to dip in places where smoking was forbidden. Couple that with a highly demanding and stressful job working on high tech communication equipment, and you have the recipe for the need of a addictive crutch. For me there is addiction, but it does have several components.

After trying nicotine gum and patches, vaping has been the only thing that has the gratifications I needed to quit dipping. I started out with the highest nicotine juice I could get and have been stepping it down since. I'm currently at 12mg with a goal of reaching 0mg and then tapering off vaping all together. That is my endgame so far and it has been working 10x better than anything else I have tried.

 

[Iffy]

Guess what those with dementia, Alzheimers, Parkinson and other cognitive afflictions are prescribed, nicotine patches!

Being a 67 year young ol' fart, I'll stick with my vaping nic and hope fer da best!!! They'll have to pry my PV from my cold nicotine-stain-free fingers...

 

[skoony]

here are y thoughts as i have posted in another thread concerning addictions as being dicussed here.


"my opinion is nicotine may cause a dependency. perhaps it would be better to refer
to these studies.
Chewing gum addiction
Chewing Gum Addiction: Is it for Real? |
either way how does this relate to addiction. simply because something may
cause a dependence does not mean its an addiction in the sense that it causes
harm to one self or to others. even in these studies they refer to it as an addiction
when a dependency would be more appropriate. admittedly extreme chewing can
and does cause severe damage to ones teeth in rare occasions. my take would
be that in rare cases dependence turned into addiction,not,addiction turned into
a more harmful addiction. relative harm must also be considered.
seeing no laws or regulations concerning gum chewing it is reasonable to assume
it doesn't meet the threshold of what would be considered an addiction nor in
any need of regulating because of its harmful effects.there has not been to date any research
of the effects of second hand chewing i know of.
alcohol is regulated because the prevailing consensus is if you drink enough of it and
don't harm yourself in the actual process, over a long period of time there is a high probability
you will develop a related disease.
tobacco,especially in cigarette form is rigorously regulated in all phases because not
only because it causes harm to the user but,also to non-users.(second hand smoke)
one could say alcohol causes harm to others,it does. criminal law has kept apace
dealing with the harm one does to another if intoxicated making more stringent regulation
unnecessary and redundant. the same isn't true with tobacco as i don't think nicticular
homicide would hold up in a criminal court.(at least as of now)
if nicotine in and of itself does not meet the threshold of harm to the person and
and does not harm the non-user we should not be referring it to as an addiction in the forms
we are discussing it here."
regards
mike