And another one

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Mazinny

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I don't think Anyone who has followed the Deeming Process believes that many of the Current Regulated mods are going to be PMTA-able. And Mechanical mods? Not a Hope in Hell.

The Only real Question is How Long will they be Allowed to be sold Once Deeming is Finalized?

Wasn't there supposedly something about a two year grace period in the leaked deemings ? Or is it a rumor ? It's been repeated often enough, that's for sure. I have heard it from some knowledgeable people, like Dmitris for example.

If no grace period, the regs become effective 30 days after publication in the federal registry.
 

zoiDman

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Wasn't there supposedly something about a two year grace period in the leaked deemings ? Or is it a rumor ? It's been repeated often enough, that's for sure. I have heard it from some knowledgeable people, like Dmitris for example.

If no grace period, the regs become effective 30 days after publication in the federal registry.

The only thing I have seen regarding any Grace Period has all been from Draft Documents. And as far as I know, No One has released anything that was known to be Submitted and Approved by the OMB/OIRA.

So I think it is Anyone's Guess.

Personally. I don't see the FDA throwing a 2 Year Grace Period down on All Hardware.
 

Lessifer

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The only thing I have seen regarding any Grace Period has all been from Draft Documents. And as far as I know, No One has released anything that was known to be Submitted and Approved by the OMB/OIRA.

So I think it is Anyone's Guess.

Personally. I don't see the FDA throwing a 2 Year Grace Period down on All Hardware.
I personally would not count on a 2 year grace period for anything. If it's written into the regs, it will only apply to the application process for PMTA. The FDA is fully capable of releasing a "guidance" regarding any specific "health threat" that would "clarify" the regulations on a given point.

For instance, the regs may make no mention of flavors at all, and then the FDA could release a guidance clarifying that the availability of flavors should be commensurate with other regulated tobacco products, so now the only flavors available to market are tobacco and menthol.
 

Mazinny

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Read Mooch's blog post (thanks Mooch, great work) and still miss the bomb failure mode discussion.
I feel for the guy getting hurt, but I'm still waiting for the 'bag of stupid' to spill out.
No heat, no vent.... just boom.
Really??
Apparently it is difficult, but not impossible in a ' thermal runaway '

It is quite difficult, but not impossible, to bring the temperature of a battery up quickly enough to go into thermal runaway without it venting first. About the only way to do it is with a short circuit.

Both venting and thermal runaway can take hours to occur or they can happen very quickly. You will typically be able to feel a battery getting hot before it vents but do not assume the same for preventing thermal runaway. That depends on a very, very fast rise in temperature, happening before the battery can vent. You might not feel the battery get hot first.

How do we prevent thermal runaway then? Never allow our batteries to be short circuited! Keep your battery wraps and top insulating rings in perfect condition, replacing them when necessary. Never use an atomizer with a press-fit or spring-loaded 510 pin on a hybrid top mechanical mod. Always make sure that the 510 pin sticks out past the threaded stem of the atomizer.


And this from his post in response to a question in a different thread :

Yes, thermal runaway can happen without venting though some might argue that when a battery bursts, that is venting. The mods blow up not from a venting event, which involves little gas, but the extraordinary amounts of gas produced in runaway.

Yes,
a dead short can go almost instantly to bursting of the battery without venting happning first.

 
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zoiDman

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I personally would not count on a 2 year grace period for anything. If it's written into the regs, it will only apply to the application process for PMTA. The FDA is fully capable of releasing a "guidance" regarding any specific "health threat" that would "clarify" the regulations on a given point.

For instance, the regs may make no mention of flavors at all, and then the FDA could release a guidance clarifying that the availability of flavors should be commensurate with other regulated tobacco products, so now the only flavors available to market are tobacco and menthol.

Yeah... I'm not planning on Any Grace Period on Anything.

I live by the adage, "Hope for the Best. Plan for the Worst."
 

skoony

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Allowing only proprietary tamper-proof systems fulfills all the desires of everyone involved.
Well, everyone but us.
Ditto on the "us" part. I have lost track of the count of stakeholders putting in
their :2c: worth in concerning the deeming regulations. One thing I know for
sure is "us" vapers are not on the list.
For instance, the regs may make no mention of flavors at all, and then the FDA could release a guidance clarifying that the availability of flavors should be commensurate with other regulated tobacco products, so now the only flavors available to market are tobacco and menthol.
It's interesting to note when they did this to cigarettes nearly 94% by most counts of the flavors used were tobacco and menthol. Roughly 6 to 10% depending on who's count, accounted for all the rest of
the flavors available combined.( probably because they tasted like crap)
I believe if one looked at the flavor demographics of the vaping community almost
the exact opposite would be true. When they banned flavors in cigarettes there was
no apparent effect on the smoking rate. If they ban flavors for vaping they better have
a really big wrench to throw into the works because I do not believe vapers will stand
for it. There will be bottles of flavorings on every Quickie Marts counter faster than you
could shake a stick.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 

Lessifer

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Ditto on the "us" part. I have lost track of the count of stakeholders putting in
their :2c: worth in concerning the deeming regulations. One thing I know for
sure is "us" vapers are not on the list.

It's interesting to note when they did this to cigarettes nearly 94% by most counts of the flavors used were tobacco and menthol. Roughly 6 to 10% depending on who's count, accounted for all the rest of
the flavors available combined.( probably because they tasted like crap)
I believe if one looked at the flavor demographics of the vaping community almost
the exact opposite would be true. When they banned flavors in cigarettes there was
no apparent effect on the smoking rate. If they ban flavors for vaping they better have
a really big wrench to throw into the works because I do not believe vapers will stand
for it. There will be bottles of flavorings on every Quickie Marts counter faster than you
could shake a stick.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
I actually liked the Camel Citrus and the Vanilla when I could find them, but you're right, no smokers were up in arms over the ban. Vaping will be very different, hopefully.

ETA: you're also right about flavors popping up, as long as open systems are still available
 

niczgreat

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I think that the market should shift away from Mechs for safety reasons. The new breed of Regulated APV are able to go down to as low as .05 . So just doesn't seem to be much of a reason for Mechanicals anymore. With the exception of Bottom Feeding. And there are some regulated bottom feeding boxes on the market now too.

I'm on a Reuleaux rx200 and it uses 3 18650 Batteries which substantially spreads the Amps out. In addition to the reverse Polarity protection. It has over heating protection and Vents at the top and in the bottom. I really like the idea of the top vents.
 
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Rossum

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The benefit of a mech mod is in the case of a total ban (unless you can make chips to run your regulated mods :- ) .....at least you'll have something that can be used with commonly available batts. Everyone should have at least one or two.
Thanks to the CoOps here, I have enough DNA boards stashed away to keep my regulated mods going for a several lifetimes, but strangely, I find myself vaping my mechanical mods most of the time time lately. About the only time I go for a regulated one is when I know I'm gonna be driving all day, and it will therefore be inconvenient to change batteries.
 

Lessifer

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Thanks to the CoOps here, I have enough DNA boards stashed away to keep my regulated mods going for a several lifetimes, but strangely, I find myself vaping my mechanical mods most of the time time lately. About the only time I go for a regulated one is when I know I'm gonna be driving all day, and it will therefore be inconvenient to change batteries.
My vaping has settled into a groove, I use the same mod/atomizer 99.9% of the time. In fact, I've been vaping on the same coil in my REO/Derringer combo since I got it in October. At 0.7 ohms I can get more than a full day on one battery, so the only thing I bring with me is an extra juice bottle in case I feel like switching out flavors. I don't even think I have a functioning regulated mod.

Of course I'm not suggesting that everyone should use mechs, though having one is never a bad idea, as long as you learn how to use it properly.
 

Racehorse

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oh oh......another one....in Alberta:

Alberta teen injured after he says e-cigarette exploded

again using combination of items that don't work safely together.
seems that he was driving when it blew apart, also caught his gym bag on fire.

Still hate seeing this, his face sure looks bad bad bad. :(


WHY are vape shops still selling hybrid mechanicals w/ subtanks to newbies? I understand that a newbie kid would walk into a vape shop, buy what was offered and assume it would work fine. I mean, we cannot expect every vaper to log onto the internet in order to vape, can we? I know I didn't do that when I bought my truck, my microwave, etc.
 
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Lessifer

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oh oh......another one....in Alberta:

Alberta teen injured after he says e-cigarette exploded

again using combination of items that don't work safely together.
seems that he was driving when it blew apart, also caught his gym bag on fire.

Still hate seeing this, his face sure looks bad bad bad. :(


WHY are vape shops still selling hybrid mechanicals w/ subtanks to newbies? I understand that a newbie kid would walk into a vape shop, buy what was offered and assume it would work fine. I mean, we cannot expect every vaper to log onto the internet in order to vape, can we? I know I didn't do that when I bought my truck, my microwave, etc.
Did they say what was used in the video? I watched with the sound off and couldn't tell what mod it was.

Did they say what battery was used? What coil?
 
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zoiDman

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Lessifer

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I can't seem to get that Link to load.

But here is another one where they show a Mod and a Battery.

Man severely burned by vaporizer battery
Yeah... that's the one where the guy had a loose battery in his pocket and it short circuited. I have a hard time calling that a vaping accident.
 

zoiDman

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Yeah... that's the one where the guy had a loose battery in his pocket and it short circuited. I have a hard time calling that a vaping accident.

Yeah... I would call it a Battery Accident.

I think though what Vapers should take note of is How Much potential energy a 18650 Battery contains. I think people kinda take Batteries for Granted. Because 99.9999% of the time, they just do what they are supposed to do.
 

Kent C

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" She said she didn’t know whether her son had the entire vaporizer or just the battery in his pocket when the explosion happened."

The mod is a Kanger Subox (or clone) and shows no damage.

edit: agree with Lessifer/Zoidman's take - battery only in pocket - direct short by keys? or something else. MXJO 3000mah 35amp IMR 18650 High-Drain Vape Battery

mxjo_3000_mah_35_amp_18650_vapor_vaper__12070.1441942499.480.480.jpg


MXJO 3000mah 35amp IMR 18650 High-Drain Vape Battery

Caution

-Do not over-discharge/overcharge, if allowed to drop past2.5 volts, chargers will no longer be able to charge these batteries
-Recharge empty batteries (resting voltage ~3.6V) as soon as possible
-Leaving LiIon batteries in discharged state will incur irreversible damage (capacity / cycle loss)
-Do not short circuit (will release tremendous current)
-Do not dispose of in fire
 
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