Apollo Reliant 60W - TC with TCR adjustment, including Stainless Steel support

[gorman]

Yes, I know it's not an error message. But it's a sign that you've reached the point of maximum vapor production too, if I'm not mistaken. Your draw creates more vapor up to the point where liquid is not getting to the coil fast enough and vapor can't cool it fast enough. Then the temperature rises. As such, I guess that hovering around the limit of your wick/coil system would lead to optimal vapor production. This without considering the time factor, which you rightly quote

 

[GeorgeS]

Yes, I know it's not an error message. But it's a sign that you've reached the point of maximum vapor production too, if I'm not mistaken. Your draw creates more vapor up to the point where liquid is not getting to the coil fast enough and vapor can't cool it fast enough. Then the temperature rises. As such, I guess that hovering around the limit of your wick/coil system would lead to optimal vapor production. This without considering the time factor, which you rightly quote

I think the generic "temp protect" (set point reached) is being confused with some models "dry coil" messages.

One (temp protect) is only telling you the set point was reached, the other means that the coil temperature is increasing faster than expected and the mod suspects that the cause is a dry coil.

Completely different messages for completely different reasons.

Does the Reliant have "dry coil" detection like many YiHi devices and others?

 

[cigatron]

I think the generic "temp protect" (set point reached) is being confused with some models "dry coil" messages.

One (temp protect) is only telling you the set point was reached, the other means that the coil temperature is increasing faster than expected and the mod suspects that the cause is a dry coil.

Completely different messages for completely different reasons.

Does the Reliant have "dry coil" detection like many YiHi devices and others?

Gawd, I hope not. That would keep us from doing dry cotton 420°f singe testing to determine temp offsets with varying wire types. I think @f1vefour is planning on testing for that when he receives his 430ss wire?

 

[cigatron]

Is there anybody that could explain to me the relationship between wattage setting and TC setting?

Meaning: if I set TC at 215C°, Is the wattage the value that the mod starts firing at when we press the button?

Should I aim for a wattage that never triggers TC, while getting as close as possible to the TC target?

Yes, I know it's not an error message. But it's a sign that you've reached the point of maximum vapor production too, if I'm not mistaken. Your draw creates more vapor up to the point where liquid is not getting to the coil fast enough and vapor can't cool it fast enough. Then the temperature rises. As such, I guess that hovering around the limit of your wick/coil system would lead to optimal vapor production. This without considering the time factor, which you rightly quote

Re wattage:
Wattage setting determines the maximum power that the mod will apply. It does not necessarily mean that it always starts firing at that setting. Some mods may look at the coil res/temp and lower the initial firing wattage if the coil is already warm or hot. My evic appears to do this. Also, the higher your wattage setting, the faster it reaches tp.

Re temp setting:
If you want true temp control you must have the wattage turned up high enough to reach temp protect. Having your wattage set where it only reaches tp if your coil runs dry equates to using your mod as a tp device only, not a tc device "with" tp.

Re vapor production:
Max vapor production happens when juice flow, air input and wattage all come together in the right proportion. Juice flow is by far the most difficult of the three to enhance in a tank system, where airflow can usually be upgraded by widening air channels. In a tank even increasing airflow has its limits because too much airflow reduces juice flow from the tank. Drippers aren't limited as much with juice flow or airflow thus higher power can be applied without going over temp. Rambling.
Point is, higher temp settings produce more vapor with tc as long as juice and airflow are there to compliment the increase in power.

 

[AlaskaVaper]

Time to chime in again about my prior SS problem with the Reliant and
Crown tank using the SS 316 coils. Croak was absolutely correct when he suspected the Crown was the problem rather than the device that was causing my fluctuating res with the SS. After switching to some flawless vaping through a TCT tank with nickel coil I dismantled the Crown, cleaned and tightend everything and gave the SS a second try. I dropped the TCR setting to the lowest setting possible at 10. It worked ok with no res wildly fluctuating readings. What I was attributing to the Apollo device had clearly been the result of the Crown tank having something that was causing the problem as Croak had suggested. I had just convinced myself it was the device and not the tank as the probable cause. This time everything worked as expected. The 316 coil is not a good match for the TCR as currently available on the device as the resulting vape is rather anemic. The TCR just cannot be currently set low enough for a great vape with 316 SS. I hope that coil makers will recognize this and begin incorporating either 304 or perhaps 430 grade SS in their coil heads in future releases. These SS grades will better suit the TCR curves that many mods currently have implemented. Of course one can always eliminate this issue with the DNA200 and Escribe software-LOL Thanks to all for your good advice.

 

[f1vefour]

What was your wattage set to @AlaskaVaper

 

[AlaskaVaper]

What was your wattage set to @AlaskaVaper

I had the watts at 55 is my recall. I always set near the max. and I had a fresh battery so the watts were available.

 

[Jesse Wright]

After reading this thread through I'm left w a tough decision. Should I go evic vtc mini or Apollo reliant? The differences as I see them-
1. Vtc mini does not have tcr which I would like to see differences in wire although I'll probably mostly use titanium. Very interested in ss though.
2. Vtc mini is firmware upgradable and may very well support ss after some time, but tcr does open many more doors.
3. Build quality. I have not seen any qc issues from vtc mini like the ones I've seen on this thread, but Apollo seems like they would take care of any problems quickly. I don't entirely trust joyetech, but I would say they have upped their game significantly.
4. Price point. Vtc mini is around 30-40 Apollo is 70-100 which is important to me as I am a vaper on a budget. I'd love both but won't be able to accomplish that for some time. (Upgrading rn from a mech I've had for about a year)
5. Things subjective to me. I prefer the buttons on the vtc mini more, although I may like the placement of the fire button on the Apollo more. I prefer the menu system of Apollo more mainly because of the ability to go backwards in wattage increments and tcr. I don't like the battery sag sensing on the Apollo, I'd rather it lie to me and me be able to sense what is happening in the sense of power dropping. I don't believe the Apollo shows amp draw from battery in real time as the vtc mini does w the firmware update which is a nice feature to have. Stealth mode they both have which is nice. They both reach 60w max, w the exception of the battery sag sensing on the apollo, which I understand is the accurate wattage you would be supplying in any device. The apollo MAY not lock res? Idk but I know the mini does. I think that is it...
Anyone who read this whole thing thank you. I'm liking the features and reviews of both of these mods just wondering which one might have more options/a better experience for my first tc mod as I'll be stuck w it for a while. I understand tcr and that I may not be an "experienced" vaper at 3 years, but I am very intelligent and have read and understand how tcr works (especially in this device lol) and how tc/tp works and the oddities that occur through these devices using resistance increases to measure temperature. I'm rather intelligent when it comes to math and algorithms so this is right in my ballpark of things I enjoy/can grasp fully and take advantage of the adjustments and fine tuning these devices allow. These are pretty much the only two I have my eyes on, because I don't like the measurement of joules and ipv devices and the price points of many others. If you have the time to read this then hopefully you have the time to give me a well though response on your opinion of which device may be better in the long run. Thank you.

 

[cigatron]

After reading this thread through I'm left w a tough decision. Should I go evic vtc mini or Apollo reliant? The differences as I see them-
1. Vtc mini does not have tcr which I would like to see differences in wire although I'll probably mostly use titanium. Very interested in ss though.
2. Vtc mini is firmware upgradable and may very well support ss after some time, but tcr does open many more doors.
3. Build quality. I have not seen any qc issues from vtc mini like the ones I've seen on this thread, but Apollo seems like they would take care of any problems quickly. I don't entirely trust joyetech, but I would say they have upped their game significantly.
4. Price point. Vtc mini is around 30-40 Apollo is 70-100 which is important to me as I am a vaper on a budget. I'd love both but won't be able to accomplish that for some time. (Upgrading rn from a mech I've had for about a year)
5. Things subjective to me. I prefer the buttons on the vtc mini more, although I may like the placement of the fire button on the Apollo more. I prefer the menu system of Apollo more mainly because of the ability to go backwards in wattage increments and tcr. I don't like the battery sag sensing on the Apollo, I'd rather it lie to me and me be able to sense what is happening in the sense of power dropping. I don't believe the Apollo shows amp draw from battery in real time as the vtc mini does w the firmware update which is a nice feature to have. Stealth mode they both have which is nice. They both reach 60w max, w the exception of the battery sag sensing on the apollo, which I understand is the accurate wattage you would be supplying in any device. The apollo MAY not lock res? Idk but I know the mini does. I think that is it...
Anyone who read this whole thing thank you. I'm liking the features and reviews of both of these mods just wondering which one might have more options/a better experience for my first tc mod as I'll be stuck w it for a while. I understand tcr and that I may not be an "experienced" vaper at 3 years, but I am very intelligent and have read and understand how tcr works (especially in this device lol) and how tc/tp works and the oddities that occur through these devices using resistance increases to measure temperature. I'm rather intelligent when it comes to math and algorithms so this is right in my ballpark of things I enjoy/can grasp fully and take advantage of the adjustments and fine tuning these devices allow. These are pretty much the only two I have my eyes on, because I don't like the measurement of joules and ipv devices and the price points of many others. If you have the time to read this then hopefully you have the time to give me a well though response on your opinion of which device may be better in the long run. Thank you.

I have three full size evics but I want the adj tcr. It's a true game changer with respect to temp accuracy and useable wire types. The evic has a monster battery (4800 mah lipo) but if I were to buy a single 18650 tc mod today it would be the Reliant.

That said, I will probably just save up to buy a dual 18650 dna200 tc mod so I can run my dual coil rdas with tc at 100w with stainless.

 

[Jesse Wright]

I have three full size evics but I want the adj tcr. It's a true game changer with respect to temp accuracy and useable wire types. The evic has a monster battery (4800 mah lipo) but if I were to buy a single 18650 tc mod today it would be the Reliant.

They do have a new evic. The mini. The tcr is a nice feature but like I said I will probably mostly use ti probably. But it would still be nice to have the feature... I just really like the idea of upgradeable firmware. And just thinking about it... using the upgradable firmware possibly could lead to users adding things like tcr or at least ss compatibility, that is if joyetech doesn't do this for us. I'm not sure about physical chip limitations, but I'm sure w the base technology people could figure it out. If this mod had firmware upgradablility, I would have my mind made up. But that is kinda a big restriction for such an expensive mod...

 

[cigatron]

They do have a new evic. The mini. The tcr is a nice feature but like I said I will probably mostly use ti probably. But it would still be nice to have the feature... I just really like the idea of upgradeable firmware. And just thinking about it... using the upgradable firmware possibly could lead to users adding things like tcr or at least ss compatibility, that is if joyetech doesn't do this for us. I'm not sure about physical chip limitations, but I'm sure w the base technology people could figure it out. If this mod had firmware upgradablility, I would have my mind made up. But that is kinda a big restriction for such an expensive mod...

Yes I know about the vtc mini. That's why I said "if I were to buy a "single" 18650 mod today....".

I'm not too worried about the upgradeabilty of the reliant. Wattage is pretty much already maxed for a single 18650 tc mod and with adj tcr what could possibly need upgraded? Just my thinking.

 

[f1vefour]

Wattage is definitely maxed

 

[Jesse Wright]

Well locking resistance and showing amperage. Those are things I'd like to see, but amps can be figured out with some quick math. That's all I can really think of. Smooth tc operation? I understand the evics work on step up/step down to make them very smooth in tc mode. Does the apollo have this? If not is it at least smooth, even when pushed? Also the information on the Reliant is rather lacking. Not many usage videos or tests done. This thread has the most info that I could find, I'm sure w time more will show up, but I'd like to see it in action and with tests.

 

[f1vefour]

The Reliant can step up/down, it pulses noticeably when temperature protection is engaged (with stainless steel anyway).

I can't comment on smoothness compared to other devices, if you're hitting TP a lot with a wet wick you need to adjust the mod. With adjustable TCR, wattage and temperature you can dial in the perfect temperature controlled vape.

 

[cigatron]

The Reliant can step up/down, it pulses noticeably when temperature protection is engaged (with stainless steel anyway).

I can't comment on smoothness compared to other devices, if you're hitting TP a lot with a wet wick you need to adjust the mod. With adjustable TCR, wattage and temperature you can dial in the perfect temperature controlled vape.

54, does the reliant display active wattage while vaping?

 

[f1vefour]

54, does the reliant display active wattage while vaping?

It does. Active temperature, wattage, ohms, and voltage.

You only see the active wattage when temperature protection kicks in of course, otherwise it is pushing the set wattage.

 

[f1vefour]

Here is what the wick (rayon) looks like when temperature protection kicks in SS430 @ 420F TCR = 12 (excuse the coil, I built it quickly and was exhausted)

I stopped vaping and took the cap off to snap a picture, I didn't push it further but can without burning the wick. Overall I am happy with the performance of the Reliant and Unkamen 430 wire.

Personally I don't mind the pulsing while protection is kicking in, to me it's better than your vape simply drying up. It let's me know time to re-drip.

It could be smoother I suppose but it is what it is.

 

[cigatron]

Here is what the wick (rayon) looks like when temperature protection kicks in SS430 @ 420F TCR = 12 (excuse the coil, I built it quickly and was exhausted)

I stopped vaping and took the cap off to snap a picture, I didn't push it further but can without burning the wick. Overall I am happy with the performance of the Reliant and Unkamen 430 wire.

Personally I don't mind the pulsing while protection is kicking in, to me it's better than your vape simply drying up. It let's me know time to re-drip.

It could be smoother I suppose but it is what it is.

Gawd, I am so jealous 54. Cig needs a new shiny.

 

[ShowerHead]

SS430 @ 420F TCR = 12

Overall I am happy with the performance of the Reliant and Unkamen 430 wire.

So, you enjoy the vape from this device using SS430?
I am thinking of selling my SX Mini M and buying something that will do SS.
Just got a Crown tank and haven't tried the SS. The Ni coils are killer though. That includes batteries and e-juice!

 

[f1vefour]

So, you enjoy the vape from this device using SS430?
I am thinking of selling my SX Mini M and buying something that will do SS.
Just got a Crown tank and haven't tried the SS. The Ni coils are killer though. That includes batteries and e-juice!

It's nice, I really don't notice much difference between it and kanthal but I'm vaping some highly flavorful juice. Too potent to find any nuances that one brings over another.

If I were in the market for a new device it would likely be a DNA 200, not because the Reliant doesn't perform well but because I'm a techie. Before getting a DNA I would see how the open source Whiteout chip pans out, I am deep into the open source movement and a part of several projects based on FOSS. I already have a Bluetooth chipset marked for purchase to add app capabilities to the DNA.

The Reliant is a nice device, not just the chipset but the overall quality. Really strong (and deep) spring loaded 510, smooth buttons and immaculate fit and finish as you can see in my image above (see where the stainless meets the body). I suppose there are better devices out there but this one does everything I need, does it well, and looks good doing it