Are vape shops partially responsible for selling safe batteries?

[Letitia]

I tried that at our local shop, the price for the rewraps was cheaper and the owner just plain didn’t care what was under the wrap. Fact is we don't have to go to a library or take a class to learn about batteries. The information is literally at our fingertips.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Basically as others have noted, it is ultimately a decision that only a court can make.

With vaping where we are using batteries, be it legit or rewraps, outside their intended use is there a case for the courts? Asking not questioning.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I'm going to send my mom out to get me some juice. I'm open for suggestions for the title of the upcoming thread.....

She's 86 and has dementia.

 

[smacuser]

The information is literally at our fingertips.

I feel this is more of a thought experiment rather than an actual event.

 

[untar]

With vaping where we are using batteries, be it legit or rewraps, outside their intended use is there a case for the courts? Asking not questioning

If you look at eg Akkuteile in Germany they have a big disclaimer on every page that reminds you that "batteries may only be handled by qualified personel" (they don't sell "evil" rewraps but it wouldn't matter anyways). As far as German law is concerned that's it, no case if an unqualified person blows their bits off.
I've never witnessed a vape shop stating something like that to a customer though...

She's 86 and has dementia

Enjoy your pink rose scented sparkly nail polish

 

[Beamslider]

With vaping where we are using batteries, be it legit or rewraps, outside their intended use is there a case for the courts? Asking not questioning.

There is always a case for the courts in that or anything else. You can sue over just about anything. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. Depends on getting a jury to agree with you.

That is the reason battery makers in many cases are putting disclaimers on usage in some cases even on the wrap.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

There is always a case for the courts in that or anything else. You can sue over just about anything. Maybe you win, maybe you lose. Depends on getting a jury to agree with you.

That is the reason battery makers in many cases are putting disclaimers on usage in some cases even on the wrap.

So who would be liable, the retailer or manufacture? Or does that not matter in the States? I’m not up on my Canadian law, but looking at a liability cases against tobacco companies, retailers are not involved. They sold a product that has known adverse effects on health so are they liable? With this topic of CONFLICT cells, should a consumer injure themselves while using it, is the retailer liable? No idea where CONFLICT as a company resides so I’m sure there will be difficulties going after them for a liability case.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Do you think the vape shop is responsible to some degree if something happened or the company who rewrapped them? The guy also said, "We just sell them." As if it is not his responsibility.

Absolutely a Retailer is Responsible/Liable that the products they sell perform as they are advertised/sold as. There is No Pass-Thru Liability for a Retailer to "just Sell" Products.

 

[Beamslider]

So who would be liable, the retailer or manufacture? Or does that not matter in the States? I’m not up on my Canadian law, but looking at a liability cases against tobacco companies, retailers are not involved. They sold a product that has known adverse effects on health so are they liable? With this topic of CONFLICT cells, should a consumer injure themselves while using it, is the retailer liable? No idea where CONFLICT as a company resides so I’m sure there will be difficulties going after them for a liability case.

I presume it works pretty much the same in the US as in Canada as both countries recognize English Common law.

You find a lawyer, if the lawyer takes the case he comes up with a list of defendants to sue and files suit. The judge decides case law and guides the trial. A jury decides who is liable or not and then decides on amount of judgement or not. Judge can still change the award.

Disclaimers such as the one on the battery wrap are an attempt to not be liable. But do not guarantee that you aren't liable when it goes before a court. They may help though.

 

[Letitia]

With vaping where we are using batteries, be it legit or rewraps, outside their intended use is there a case for the courts? Asking not questioning.

I don’t see how it could be a winning case. All the distributors make it clear the batteries aren't intended for our use. Now whether the vape shop that carries batteries and has no disclaimer posted is liable probably will depend on where the suit is filed.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I presume it works pretty much the same in the US as in Canada as both countries recognize English Common law.

Don’t think Canada has a liability law, otherwise Justin Bieber would have been sued for bad music long time ago. We tend to settle things by profusely apologising then offering a coupon for Tim Hortons

 

[Baditude]

Vape Battery Explosion Lawsuits on the Rise

E-cigarette exploded in Florida man’s mouth, lawsuit contends

Webster vape shop sued over exploding e-cig battery

Kansas man sues vape shop for e-cigarette battery explosion

A Glendale man burned his genitals and legs. The culprit? An e-cigarette battery, new lawsuit claims

E-Cigarette Battery Explosion Lawsuit Information

E-Cigarette Lawsuits

Colorado man sues after explosion - ECF

Man suing manufacuturer over ecig explosion

And probably the most famous lawsuit of a Colorado man who sued mod maker PureSmoker when his battery exploded. PureSmoker went bankrupt after losing the lawsuit.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

In the US, first - everyone up the chain is named in the suit. Throw enough sh** against the wall, and make sure you include the deep pockets just in case is standard practice. Here are the most likely outcomes in a simple (if that actually existed) scenario:

• Manufacturer makes a product, properly labeled and spec'd, consumer uses it against recommendation (vaping), sure, you can sue mfg. But barring any other unusual circumstances, you will almost certainly lose. But you increase your chances if it's proven they demonstrably market the product for vape use, in spite of the printed warnings.
  
• Manufacturer purposely (if proveable- easy to do: hire Mooch & buy plenty of stock to test), overstates specs, consumer uses it against recommendation (vaping), no guarantees. Judge or jury could easily find in favor of either party- will take into account that mfg. isn't "playing by the rules" and creating a danger. Could punish mfg. regardless of vape warning, because by mislabeling, they're creating a danger even for those using them for non-vaping purposes.
• Reseller/vape shop- could easily be found liable whether battery meets specs or not. They're creating a danger by purposely selling a potentially dangerous product for unintended purposes against mfg. warnings.
  
• Reseller- even absent the non-vape use warning, could increase their liability if it's reasonably assumed that they "should" know that the batteries are mislabeled, whether they know or not.

None of this happens in a vacuum, however. There are always extenuating circumstances. Judges and juries are humans. New precedents are set every day. Consumers act like idiots everyday and bring in contributory negligence (ignore instructions, coins in pocket, overdrive a setup). None of us really knows whether Samsung or Conflict can be proven to market their products in a way that isn't contrary to their warning labels. And then there's their distribution chain.

That's exactly why there are courts instead of a True/False form to fill out to come to a conclusion. So what I say is speculation, but based on history. And keep in mind that the lawyers want the biggest payday. But that doesn't necessarily mean the mfg/top of the chain with the most money. Suing foreign companies can cost a lot more money depending on jurisdiction/venue, and company structure.

 

[CMD-Ky]

As far as I'm concerned I alone am responsible for my battery choices and where they are purchased from.

There you go again, Letitia, pushing that personal responsibility thing, so early 20th century.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I tried that at our local shop, the price for the rewraps was cheaper and the owner just plain didn’t care what was under the wrap. Fact is we don't have to go to a library or take a class to learn about batteries. The information is literally at our fingertips.

I research everything. I look to see if Mooch has updated his chart. If Mooch has changed his chart I look intently, if not, I go to RTD or Illum and re-order.

 

[Letitia]

I research everything. I look to see if Mooch has updated his chart. If Mooch has changed his chart I look intently, if not, I go to RTD or Illum and re-order.

Liion Wholesale here. I don’t understand much about battery chemistry so I come here to ecf and ask, then make my decision.

 

[Letitia]

In the US, first - everyone up the chain is named in the suit. Throw enough sh** against the wall, and make sure you include the deep pockets just in case is standard practice. Here are the most likely outcomes in a simple (if that actually existed) scenario:

• Manufacturer makes a product, properly labeled and spec'd, consumer uses it against recommendation (vaping), sure, you can sue mfg. But barring any other unusual circumstances, you will almost certainly lose. But you increase your chances if it's proven they demonstrably market the product for vape use, in spite of the printed warnings.
  
• Manufacturer purposely (if proveable- easy to do: hire Mooch & buy plenty of stock to test), overstates specs, consumer uses it against recommendation (vaping), no guarantees. Judge or jury could easily find in favor of either party- will take into account that mfg. isn't "playing by the rules" and creating a danger. Could punish mfg. regardless of vape warning, because by mislabeling, they're creating a danger even for those using them for non-vaping purposes.
• Reseller/vape shop- could easily be found liable whether battery meets specs or not. They're creating a danger by purposely selling a potentially dangerous product for unintended purposes against mfg. warnings.
  
• Reseller- even absent the non-vape use warning, could increase their liability if it's reasonably assumed that they "should" know that the batteries are mislabeled, whether they know or not.

None of this happens in a vacuum, however. There are always extenuating circumstances. Judges and juries are humans. New precedents are set every day. Consumers act like idiots everyday and bring in contributory negligence (ignore instructions, coins in pocket, overdrive a setup). None of us really knows whether Samsung or Conflict can be proven to market their products in a way that isn't contrary to their warning labels. And then there's their distribution chain.

That's exactly why there are courts instead of a True/False form to fill out to come to a conclusion. So what I say is speculation, but based on history. And keep in mind that the lawyers want the biggest payday. But that doesn't necessarily mean the mfg/top of the chain with the most money. Suing foreign companies can cost a lot more money depending on jurisdiction/venue, and company structure.

This is true. Around here you simply put out a sign "dog on property" not "warning dog on property". The disclaimer does make an impression on the jurors though. As I said depends on where the suit is filed.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Liion Wholesale here. I don’t understand much about battery chemistry so I come here to ecf and ask, then make my decision.

If you understand anything about battery chemistry (without spell check I couldn't spell it) you know more than I. Mooch and @Baditude tell me what I need to know and I believe. I am a man of faith not knowledge.

 

[Baditude]

If you understand anything about battery chemistry (without spell check I couldn't spell it) you know more than I. Mooch and @Baditude tell me what I need to know and I believe. I am a man of faith not knowledge.

I appreciate your confidence and faith in me, and I am sure that Mooch does too. Vape batteries are a special interest of mine and I try to keep current (at least with the 18650's) with the latest information available.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I appreciate your confidence and faith in me, and I am sure that Mooch does too. Vape batteries are a special interest of mine and I try to keep current (at least with the 18650's) with the latest information available.

I know that both of you stay informed, you always seem to make sense when I read your stuff, your advice for newcomers is excellent. But is is also helpful to us old folks, I used some of it just the other day as I was buying some new batteries for a regulated mod.