Are vape shops partially responsible for selling safe batteries?

[asmcriminal]

A few months ago I was pretty ill. My dad was here and I asked if he could go to the vape shop and buy me some batteries. He agreed. He doesn't know much about batteries and he came back with these "CONFLICT" batteries. The wrap labels the batteries at 40A 3000 mAh.

I got pretty upset. I looked up the specs of those batteries and found a listing from Mooch, He states, "This Conflict cell is a rewrap with a ridiculously exaggerated current rating. The capacity rating is exaggerated too. It is identical in appearance and almost identical in performance to the LG MH1 10A 3200mAh cell. At only a 15A continuous discharge it's almost hot enough to boil water. A 40A continuous discharge wasn't even possible as the voltage collapses at just 30A. At 40A pulsed the voltage of a freshly charged cell dropped to my 2.8V cutoff in just 2 seconds"
Conflict Green Top 40A 3500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...just another rewrapped 10A battery

I went to the vape shop a few weeks later and said to the guy working there, "These batteries are mislabeled and can be seriously dangerous. Some kid who doesn't have a clue might buying these batteries and think they are a legit 40A and tries to build for them."

I also showed him Mooch's post on the battery. He then said, "Yeah, they are safe because as the post said the voltage will collapse. The problem is the company who makes these batteries." We got into a disagreement on the whole issue. Nothing serious, but, we clearly had different opinions on the matter.

Do you think the vape shop is responsible to some degree if something happened or the company who rewrapped them? The guy also said, "We just sell them." As if it is not his responsibility.

 

[bombastinator]

Answer is simple: don’t shop there anymore. They sell unsafe stuff.

As to who is responsible that’s a question for the courts should it come up

 

[Old Greybeard]

"We just sell them". There is your answer in one simple sentence.

@bombastinator makes a valid point, ultimately it is a court of law that should decide the degrees of responsibility, but as we all know justice is blind as she doesn't want to see the money changing hands .

In the UK, we have a very good piece of law - the Sale of Goods act. It protects against misrepresentation, and the consumer has up to 3 years to make a claim against the seller if it can be proved there was a manufacturing fault. In your specific case, over here it would be a more serious claim, as false representation would play a part. It would have to be proven though that he knew the goods were counterfeit, and while you advised him, this would not necessarily be enough proof in court. It all depends on whether civil or criminal action was taken, if somebody was actually injured etc. As part of his defence he could also kick the issue up the supply chain.

In any case, I always swear by "Caveat Emptor" - Buyer beware. Most vendors appreciate that reputation is everything, and if alerted to issues will do everything in their power to correct them. This vendor clearly doesn't care about quality, reputation or indeed his customers, nor I doubt will he be swayed by the argument that ignorance is no defence in law. He is clearly interested only in profit.

So yes, to use a metaphor he may not have pulled the trigger but he put the bullets in the gun.

Hope you are feeling better now, BTW.

 

[Zakillah]

"We just sell them" is such a stupid statement.
Who chooses to sell them? The shop does. What stops them to sell only legit Sony/LG/Samsung cells?

 

[sonicbomb]

Yes they should, do they no.
Unfortunately the responsibility lies with you the vaper to make good battery choices. Luckily we have the data we need thanks to Mooch, god bless his little cotton socks.

 

[untar]

The industry is already under attack and the more bad batteries that are out there the more likely a regulation will be.
They'll then sell the crap that's still allowed to sell, they don't care if the devices you like disappear.
A shop that doesn't care doesn't deserve to sell, vote with your wallet.

 

[Letitia]

If you weren't talking to the owner you were wasting your time. Some owners do care, some don't as in any other business. It is unreasonable to hold vape shops to higher standards than any other type of business. Do you go to the grocery store and complain if your frozen pizza has imitation cheese?

 

[untar]

Do you go to the grocery store and complain if your frozen pizza has imitation cheese?

If the pizza says "apple tart" on the package then I'd go give them a piece of my thoughts

 

[asmcriminal]

If you weren't talking to the owner you were wasting your time. Some owners do care, some don't as in any other business. It is unreasonable to hold vape shops to higher standards than any other type of business. Do you go to the grocery store and complain if your frozen pizza has imitation cheese?

There is a big difference between imitation cheese and batteries. Batteries can be extremely dangerous.

 

[smacuser]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around sending my dad to go get batteries, and ironically, the batteries he gets are made by CONFLICT.

 

[Letitia]

There is a big difference between imitation cheese and batteries. Batteries can be extremely dangerous.

Same concept applies.
For one thing an inexperienced person should never have been sent to buy batteries to begin with. For another any vaper that's done their homework knows very few shops order batteries directly from a battery vendor. Knowing this means they understand that the shop has no clue if the batteries are authentic or even unused .

 

[Letitia]

As far as I'm concerned I alone am responsible for my battery choices and where they are purchased from.

 

[Eskie]

There is a big difference between imitation cheese and batteries. Batteries can be extremely dangerous.

Are you kidding? Have you seen some of the imitation cheese out there.

Let's all remember that the batteries we use were never meant to be sold at retail to the general public. The three big manufacturers specifically state they're not meant to be used in vape gear. The fact that we do means we assume responsibility for using a battery we shouldn't. That leaves the responsibility on out shoulders. That also means we're responsible for understanding both battery safety and trusted sources for authentic batteries that we already are familiar with thanks to independent testing by Mooch.

It would be nice to think that a vape shop would be a trusted source for those batteries. But history and experience have demonstrated time and time again that the average vape shop doesn't. Should they be held responsible for selling inferior products? Sure. But we but from them anyway. If everyone stopped buying their batteries there, the policies of shops may change.

Of course that's of no help to a brand new vaper who doesn't know and trusts the shop they're in.

 

[asmcriminal]

Same concept applies.
For one thing an inexperienced person should never have been sent to buy batteries to begin with. For another any vaper that's done their homework knows very few shops order batteries directly from a battery vendor. Knowing this means they understand that the shop has no clue if the batteries are authentic or even unused .

Are you kidding? Have you seen some of the imitation cheese out there.

Let's all remember that the batteries we use were never meant to be sold at retail to the general public. The three big manufacturers specifically state they're not meant to be used in vape gear. The fact that we do means we assume responsibility for using a battery we shouldn't. That leaves the responsibility on out shoulders. That also means we're responsible for understanding both battery safety and trusted sources for authentic batteries that we already are familiar with thanks to independent testing by Mooch.

It would be nice to think that a vape shop would be a trusted source for those batteries. But history and experience have demonstrated time and time again that the average vape shop doesn't. Should they be held responsible for selling inferior products? Sure. But we but from them anyway. If everyone stopped buying their batteries there, the policies of shops may change.

Of course that's of no help to a brand new vaper who doesn't know and trusts the shop they're in.

With your first device, did you know about amp ratings and ohms law? You will probably try to argue about the safety features of a regulated device. If you do, you are blindly trusting a cheaply made product from China. Those things can fail. Even if you use a regulated device you still need to know about battery safety.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I don't trust ANY battery that's a rewrap. Including, but not limited to, golisi, efest, that Pegasus weirdo...... especially any batteries with a rebellious name like conflict or whatever. I also don't trust any battery, mod, atty or anything else sold in a vape store. Unfortunately, the only entity that has my best interest in mind is me. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Letitia]

With your first device, did you know about amp ratings and ohms law? You will probably try to argue about the safety features of a regulated device. If you do, you are blindly trusting a cheaply made product from China. Those things can fail. Even if you use a regulated device you still need to know about battery safety.

I researched vaping for over 3 months before my first purchase so yes I knew what I was getting into. What I didn't/don't understand I ask people whose opinions I respect before jumping.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Is the hardware store responsible for you cutting off a finger with a power saw you purchased from them? The responsibility is on the consumer. If you were that desperate for new batteries you should have educated your father prior to sending him off to make a purchase for you.

 

[Letitia]

Or called the shop and saved dad a trip.

 

[asmcriminal]

Is the hardware store responsible for you cutting off a finger with a power saw you purchased from them? The responsibility is on the consumer. If you were that desperate for new batteries you should have educated your father prior to sending him off to make a purchase for you.

The main difference is that if the power saw says, "You can touch the blade when it's spinning and you won't get cut." Then I would say you have a valid point. The difference is that these batteries are making claims that are not true. If you trust those claims, then you can have some serious issues.

 

[englishmick]

With your first device, did you know about amp ratings and ohms law?

Well put. I sure didn't.

People often mention chain saws as a comparison, but everyone buying their first chain saw at least knows they can be dangerous. I had no idea the batteries used in vaping could be dangerous. My previous experience was with AA's. I was lucky since I started with Spinners which are way down at the low end of the danger spectrum, by the time I started using 18650's I was quite knowledgeable.

Maybe it's somewhat different now though after all the horror stories about exploding mods. Even if those stories are full of crap and don't give an accurate explanation of why the problems happened at least they put it in people's minds that there's something there.

If shops go on selling mislabeled dodgy batteries then sooner or later the law will intervene, or the Gov will step in and screw things up for all of us. It annoys me that the folks doing this will just pocket the money and walk away smiling. Some vape shop owners may not even know the risks themselves, but if they did a lot of them still wouldn't care.