Are vape shops partially responsible for selling safe batteries?
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@Baditude – your battery posts are always appreciated. Well done dude! 
I think this goes to my trouble with the vape shop selling those garbage re-wraps. There is an implied trust one would put into a vape shop. If a newbie or novice are curious and walk into that shop and have never done any research, they are relying on what they think is a local expert. Most new and many old vapers never heard of Mooch or Baditude as they never visited this or any forum. They trust those who are perceived as experts and many times get sold dangerous equipment.
I know when I was a new vaper, I put my trust in my local vape shop as they were the only one around at that time and I thought of them as the local experts. Much like I would put my trust in someone in a cigar shop to lead me into a nice cigar for a beginner or a wine shop to help me pair a wine to a meal. I got lucky and the shop in my area at that time would not sell me a mech mod as I knew absolutely nothing about anything at that time. He spent an hour with me trying to explain how it worked which was over my head at that time. Because of that, he steered me into a MVP and set it up and explained it to me. This ended up being my device for a couple years and I was grateful for that suggestion. He did tell me if I decided to buy something that required external batteries somewhere else, not to buy a battery with fire in the name and stay with I think they were AW batteries (they had red and white wraps I believe, this was 2013).
That was my story however, there have been way to many instances on this forum of new vapers being sold advanced gear with no explanation of how to use the device, battery safety, and other safety issues by vape shops all around the country. This pisses me off as every vape accident hurts this industry. And like it or not, we are all stakeholders in this market. Every time I see a battery vent story (almost always user error), I cringe as I think to myself "is this the event which results in crippling regulation which kills this industry?"
So yeah, I am all for personal responsibility and all that. However, a new vaper is probably thinking they are doing their due diligence by walking into a vape shop and asking questions or getting recommendations for what battery would be best. The same data that is at our fingertips is at the vape shops and it is their duty to know it as they are peddling it. So if someone hurts themselves because of junk that should never have been sold in a vape shop, the vape shop probably will be held responsible to some degree.
I thought you meant to! Keeping current, battery posts? c'mon!Just clued in why you thought my comment was funny.
To me it's no different than an AC specialist installing an under-powered system, or a gas station selling under octaned fuel then claiming "we just sell this stuff buyer beware".
Is it illegal? Eh, maybe not.
Is it unethical? Certainly.
As a consumer, we have a certain amount of responsibility. Yet when we enter the sellers market we also bear a responsibility. Can we spend 20 minutes with each customer educating them? Well not always. However as a seller the goal should be a satisfied customer while we know we provided a product that when used correctly causes no harm.
Selling crappy batteries for the vape device should not happen. Unfortunately it does sometimes. And there are waaaaaaaaay too many stupid people out there. To me it's no different than knowing of a gas station that sells crappy gasoline or a rip off auto repair shop. You can bet your .... everybody I know is going to hear about it.
Is it illegal? Eh, maybe not.
Is it unethical? Certainly.
As a consumer, we have a certain amount of responsibility. Yet when we enter the sellers market we also bear a responsibility. Can we spend 20 minutes with each customer educating them? Well not always. However as a seller the goal should be a satisfied customer while we know we provided a product that when used correctly causes no harm.
Selling crappy batteries for the vape device should not happen. Unfortunately it does sometimes. And there are waaaaaaaaay too many stupid people out there. To me it's no different than knowing of a gas station that sells crappy gasoline or a rip off auto repair shop. You can bet your .... everybody I know is going to hear about it.
Gotta keep an ion those battery puns.Just clued in why you thought my comment was funny.
Agreed, when I started, well before I heard of the ECF, I trusted vape shop employees. Perhaps "trust" is not the correct word but I did follow their advise, I had no where else to go. My experience with batteries was how to jump start a car and to put batteries in a flash light. When I joined ECF that all changed for the better. I learned a lot from people here.
This is not as simple as who is liable honestly, and I'm not a lawyer, either. It's sort of difficult to address because it is a new vaper/newer powerful equipment question. Due diligence to an experienced vaper is not the same as due diligence for a new vaper. Some of what is being discussed is absolutely meaningless to a new vaper, and if they enter a specialized store and get a huge box mod and terrible rewrapped batteries, I am going to have to say that I am kind of on the side of the new vaper in that situation. It's unfortunate however, because the folks most in need of education often times are not going to go research vaping. I for sure didn't, and I will say for SURE like the vape shop I went to early in the gams SHOWED me a bunch of the ins and outs of vaping. Battery safety was NOT a topic, because they were those tiny NJoy dripper things. I never got a removable battery until right before I joined here, and I'm pretty sure I used and abused my "internal battery" any old which way, but it also was less powerful, more stable etc.
My son (who as at the age he is, researched vaping online prior to buying online, because he was aware that it was also cheaper to buy online, because heck, he is a teenager, made sure I had safe equipment and legitimate batteries for my needs. Prior to that time, he would routinely, horrifiedly look at my coils and tell me they needed to be changed. And I was like, Yeah, whatever because I was dual using.
Was that on me? Yes, to an extent. I didn't really "investigate vaping" I didn't really "value vaping" and it was my choice to take those risks. Frankly it didn't even much occur to me as long as my vape was working.
With the advent of more and more choice, new vapers are being given more and more powerful equipment and more and more frequently. If they are given unsafe batteries or not taught to use them, it may not even OCCUR to them it's a problem until it's too late.
As to who is "at fault" IDK if a legal argument of "mislabeled specs" and "rewrap" how far that will go. I will say in the US that yes, everyone to the top of the chain will be included in the suit, the lawyer is going to look for a ..... in the armor, so to speak, SOMEWHERE along the chain. They may or may not find one but for sure they are going to try.
I will say this, to me the argument is more of a moral one than a legal one and it would be kind of nice if there were a MORAL push to vape stores to NOT sell fake batteries and to get educated on battery safety. Really,. I mean.... Vape owners are taking the quick buck over the long term issue. Okay, so they make 3 dollars more per ignorant sale of battery and that "works" for their bottom line, until one blows up and then well, it no longer "works" for vaping generally to have lawsuits all over concerning battery safety, and vaping gets a bad rap. Unfortunately, given today's vaping climate I see more and more vape stores looking for that quick profit margin and not educating consumers. Also if cosmetologists have to have a "license" to cut hair, I see no reason (although I am not always the BIGGEST fan of licensure) why vape shops can't.
Licensure provides a structure and a process of minimum education on the SELLER or OFFERER of services side, and if I, for example,. were to exercise my learned and honed skills outside the boundaries of my profession and scope, or inappropriately, I am by definition liable and I will have various sorts of remediation to do, and/or have my license revoked due to the serious nature of my offense.
The bottom line is the FDA could focus on THAT. The could approach vape selling as a profession, a licensed occupation if they so chose. They could make money on having a licensing board, create jobs ,and legitimize vaping and make EVERYONE safer.
But, not they want to kill the Juul and flavors. Perhaps they will kill off batteries while they are at it, but on their time frame. They don't care yet.
It is unreasonable to assume that all people or all vape owners are moral. One of the most terrifying days of my life was attending a board hearing for Social Work and SEEING and HEARING what some of them got up to, like ONE DUDE worked for CPS and like, promised a mom she could have her kid back in return for sex and THEN IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
He was not even SANCTIONED at that time it took the board time to catch up to him because he moved about. If folks like that are in the helping profession (and they are, a select few of them) expecting vape shop owners to care about their customers ON THEIR OWN seems slightly unrealistic. To me.
Anna
My son (who as at the age he is, researched vaping online prior to buying online, because he was aware that it was also cheaper to buy online, because heck, he is a teenager, made sure I had safe equipment and legitimate batteries for my needs. Prior to that time, he would routinely, horrifiedly look at my coils and tell me they needed to be changed. And I was like, Yeah, whatever because I was dual using.
Was that on me? Yes, to an extent. I didn't really "investigate vaping" I didn't really "value vaping" and it was my choice to take those risks. Frankly it didn't even much occur to me as long as my vape was working.
With the advent of more and more choice, new vapers are being given more and more powerful equipment and more and more frequently. If they are given unsafe batteries or not taught to use them, it may not even OCCUR to them it's a problem until it's too late.
As to who is "at fault" IDK if a legal argument of "mislabeled specs" and "rewrap" how far that will go. I will say in the US that yes, everyone to the top of the chain will be included in the suit, the lawyer is going to look for a ..... in the armor, so to speak, SOMEWHERE along the chain. They may or may not find one but for sure they are going to try.
I will say this, to me the argument is more of a moral one than a legal one and it would be kind of nice if there were a MORAL push to vape stores to NOT sell fake batteries and to get educated on battery safety. Really,. I mean.... Vape owners are taking the quick buck over the long term issue. Okay, so they make 3 dollars more per ignorant sale of battery and that "works" for their bottom line, until one blows up and then well, it no longer "works" for vaping generally to have lawsuits all over concerning battery safety, and vaping gets a bad rap. Unfortunately, given today's vaping climate I see more and more vape stores looking for that quick profit margin and not educating consumers. Also if cosmetologists have to have a "license" to cut hair, I see no reason (although I am not always the BIGGEST fan of licensure) why vape shops can't.
Licensure provides a structure and a process of minimum education on the SELLER or OFFERER of services side, and if I, for example,. were to exercise my learned and honed skills outside the boundaries of my profession and scope, or inappropriately, I am by definition liable and I will have various sorts of remediation to do, and/or have my license revoked due to the serious nature of my offense.
The bottom line is the FDA could focus on THAT. The could approach vape selling as a profession, a licensed occupation if they so chose. They could make money on having a licensing board, create jobs ,and legitimize vaping and make EVERYONE safer.
But, not they want to kill the Juul and flavors. Perhaps they will kill off batteries while they are at it, but on their time frame. They don't care yet.
It is unreasonable to assume that all people or all vape owners are moral. One of the most terrifying days of my life was attending a board hearing for Social Work and SEEING and HEARING what some of them got up to, like ONE DUDE worked for CPS and like, promised a mom she could have her kid back in return for sex and THEN IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
He was not even SANCTIONED at that time it took the board time to catch up to him because he moved about. If folks like that are in the helping profession (and they are, a select few of them) expecting vape shop owners to care about their customers ON THEIR OWN seems slightly unrealistic. To me.
Anna
Case in point. This thread was posted today in the Battery sub-forum. MXJO
☑ rewrapped battery
☑ in a mech
☑ hybrid connection
☑ drop in coil atomizer
☑ battery explodes
☑ in a mech
☑ hybrid connection
☑ drop in coil atomizer
☑ battery explodes
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Concerning the OP..
There is no 18650 battery that is made for vaping. We vape with every single battery against manufacturer advice.. even the good ones, or especially the good ones.
The shop is right, they just sell them. It's up to us to know what to buy..
We start suing and we will see the end of 18650 vaping..
Just my thoughts.
There is no 18650 battery that is made for vaping. We vape with every single battery against manufacturer advice.. even the good ones, or especially the good ones.
The shop is right, they just sell them. It's up to us to know what to buy..
We start suing and we will see the end of 18650 vaping..
Just my thoughts.
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