Article about vaping and 18650 in a mainstream media

[Mordacai]

These are just a few things I noticed when reading through the article.

1:- Unregulated mech mods are referenced, regulated mods have been purposely omitted.

2:- It assumes that using external charging damages the cells wraps, but there is no mention that cells can be rewraped and are rewraped.

3:- Assumes a good external charger doesn't have protections, yet a good charger has these protections.

4:- Doesn't put enough emphasis on lack of user knowledge and or user error.

 

[HigherStateD]

These are just a few things I noticed when reading through the article.

1:- Unregulated mech mods are referenced, regulated mods have been purposely omitted.

2:- It assumes that using external charging damages the cells wraps, but there is no mention that cells can be rewraped and are rewraped.

3:- Assumes a good external charger doesn't have protections, yet a good charger has these protections.

4:- Doesn't put enough emphasis on lack of user knowledge and or user error.

There is also no comment section.

 

[Mordacai]

Why would an article such as this want people to comment on it and critique it for the biased trash that it is.

But for the uninformed, it's very informative.

 

[DaveP]

I have a few such flashlights. I actually worry about them more than my mods for that exact reason.

A li-ion cell is like an ammunition cartridge. If you manage to get a loose one to go off, it might injure you, but it won't kill you. It can only kill if there is something to contain and direct the force (the barrel of the gun). Ditto with an 18650. If one were to fail in one of my mods, I might get some burns (which would no doubt be very painful) but it wouldn't kill me, because the mods I use do not resemble "pipe bombs" in any way; it's simply not possible for pressure to build up in them.

Agree. A loose cartridge going off would split the force between the casing (in reverse) and the bullet head (forward). I have an acquaintance who reloads 9mm bullets. He loads them one at a time and tosses them into a 5 gallon bucket. He's been doing that for years for target practice purposes. One day he tossed one in the bucket, it landed on the tail, and went off. He just happened to be looking at the bucket and the casing hit him in the eye. He's now blind in one eye. Safety glasses would have likely prevented that from happening.

I have 7 or 8 flashlights around the house that use the Cree T6 LED . They are 5W devices that don't have pressure relief holes, but the head slides back and forth to adjust the beam's spot size and that creates a pressure outlet. I'd hate to be holding one when the cell vented, though. All the heat would exit under your fingers and palm.

Some of my flashlights use 18650 with a sleeve and a 21700 in native mode. I don't worry about the LED creating an overheat, but there's always the possibility of a short in the battery compartment where the cell meets the LED head if the device is damaged from a drop that deforms the connection at the battery.

Safety should be foremost with lithium cells.

 

[DaveP]

These are just a few things I noticed when reading through the article.

1:- Unregulated mech mods are referenced, regulated mods have been purposely omitted.

2:- It assumes that using external charging damages the cells wraps, but there is no mention that cells can be rewraped and are rewraped.

3:- Assumes a good external charger doesn't have protections, yet a good charger has these protections.

4:- Doesn't put enough emphasis on lack of user knowledge and or user error.

All good points.

Damaged cell wraps are probably a chief cause of battery accidents. It's easy to nick a wrap when you insert and remove an 18650 or any lithium cell from a charger. I inspect the positive end each time for that reason. I rewrap if I see a cut or a nick.

 

[P3ch3]

miss information on public media is scary on my country about vaping, the national health direction / institute on my country (actually have a quite weird and possible confusing name, lets kept it health direction for the win!) makes the worst propaganda about vaping, Terrible TV comercials, some other horrible explanations about vaping, so vaping here is pretty normal yes, but laws and regulations for stores makes the things harder... then you add the brutal taxes my country have for almost everything... leaving as a result the wrong idea that vaping, in other worlds, making cheaper to continue smoking over offering help on some other institutes for addictions or social help.

Then you add another problem of a high percentage of vapers here: Ignorance, so much users here know nothing about battery safety, ending on second hand market flooded with bad quality batteries and people buying them new and used for cheap, because of that reason, believing getting great deal and then complaining for bad quality vaping hardware and supplies, and keeping smoking due a attempt failure. electronic device regulations here arent that hard, also i have purchased batteries from IMRbatteries and sent them to my FL carrier address to be shipped to Costa Rica just with webpage receipt and tracking number, National Custom office is a joke when related to online purchases, so batteries here at least wont be something you will run out, i just cant believe how the battery miss use accident range is that minimal here, just a guy with a pen explosions and some minor reports are know around,

Regards,

 

[DaveP]

Most lithium cell accidents are user error in some form or another. Keys and change in the pocket with a bare cell, cheap low grade 18650's pushed to 100+ watts, and mech mods in the hands of new vapers without any sort of instruction in battery safety and coil choices are recipes for disaster.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Open systems. Only way to be sure. If more peeps had come in on that track, chances are this would be a non-story. Then again, why are we once more being flooded with essentially vape pens? No worries…Uncle Sam will fix us.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

…One day he tossed one in the bucket, it landed on the tail, and went off. He just happened to be looking at the bucket and the casing hit him in the eye. He's now blind in one eye. Safety glasses would have likely prevented that from happening.

Million to one shot. Some peeps just have all the wrong kinds of luck.

(Moral of this thread.)

Good luck.

 

[Georgia Boy]

I am new to using external batteries, fairly new to vaping and from what i've seen and read, some people are their own worst enemies. They have no intention of doing any research or asking for help, when they get something new, which scares the crap out of me, do your research people, ask for help.

I wouldn't shoot a stick of dynamite, i know some would, i wouldn't stick my hand in a fire, some would.........oh well, i know there are some stupid people everywhere.

Seriously they can ban anything they want given enough time and ammunition, lets not give them that ammo. Again newbies, like me, do your research people, ask for help, buy from reputable sources and take care of your ....!

 

[Robin Becker]

All good points.

Damaged cell wraps are probably a chief cause of battery accidents. It's easy to nick a wrap when you insert and remove an 18650 or any lithium cell from a charger. I inspect the positive end each time for that reason. I rewrap if I see a cut or a nick.

I would guess, that the 3 main reasons for accidents are:

1. accidents outside the device, like carrying batteries in the pocket with coins, keys etc.
2. Hardware failure - mainly clones and mech-mods
3. Using damaged batteries with holes / scratches in the shrinks, with dents etc.

As far as I remember, many more accidents happened at the time, where manufacturer placed a none removable Li-Polymer battery inside the mod.

I read this article as a pure marketing for JUUL...

 

[DaveP]

I am new to using external batteries, fairly new to vaping and from what i've seen and read, some people are their own worst enemies. They have no intention of doing any research or asking for help, when they get something new, which scares the crap out of me, do your research people, ask for help.

I wouldn't shoot a stick of dynamite, i know some would, i wouldn't stick my hand in a fire, some would.........oh well, i know there are some stupid people everywhere.

Seriously they can ban anything they want given enough time and ammunition, lets not give them that ammo. Again newbies, like me, do your research people, ask for help, buy from reputable sources and take care of your ....!

Pick lithium cells from name brands like Sony, LG, and Samsung. There are others, but those are the top makers. Take a look at Mooch's battery tests for the real capacity of the cells you plan to buy.

Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[HigherStateD]

Pick lithium cells from name brands like Sony, LG, and Samsung. There are others, but those are the top makers. Take a look at Mooch's battery tests for the real capacity of the cells you plan to buy.

Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

Or, you know, molicel, as it's the ONLY manufacturer of Li-ion cells that endorses their use for vaping.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Or, you know, molicel, as it's the ONLY manufacturer of Li-ion cells that endorses their use for vaping.

Funny you should say that I have some coming, ordered them earlier this week from Liion

 

[RayofLight62]

Article is decent but has some flaws. I'll come back to them later.

My initial reaction is: The fact that a major media outlet is running this is bad news. How long before some regulatory agency decides that loose 18650s are too dangerous to be sold to the public?

The loose 18650 batteries, and all "naked" Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries are only sold as replacement parts.
You don't usually walk down to your supermarket and buy a blister of four 18650, like you would do with alkaline or lithium or Ni-MH batteries.

It is against the rules, as it is dangerous.

But you can walk in a shop and buy a replacement battery for your laptop, cordless drill, or telephone.

These batteries do contain the same Li-Ion or Li-Poly cells, but are built inside a protective box, together with a series of protection and power management circuitries.

Now, the vape part.

Together with the e-cigarettes, China has exported to the West their rules and policies regarding battery safety.
(And - not related to this - the 28 days warranty, and "buyer pays the return shipping" for faulty items).

The widespread opinion is, this can't last, as vaping is becoming more and more widespread, which in turns call for more controls and regulations. (Sad. As usual - few careless people set the bar low for everybody).
Maybe not everybody knows about ANSI FL1 standard on flashlights - which, unusually, turned to be good for users. That is a very minimal standard, tho.

Sooner or later, the spare lithium batteries for ecigs will have to be encased together with the power management circuitry; the controller chips and management communication bus - already exists and are very cheap.

Alternatively, the battery must be non-removable.

The latter - IMO- will be the most likely choice, as it is already happening with laptop, smartphones et similia, but is the one which I don't like.

This will drive the costs up, but that is the price for user safety.

 

[HigherStateD]

The loose 18650 batteries, and all "naked" Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries are only sold as replacement parts.
You don't usually walk down to your supermarket and buy a blister of four 18650, like you would do with alkaline or lithium or Ni-MH batteries.

It is against the rules, as it is dangerous.

But you can walk in a shop and buy a replacement battery for your laptop, cordless drill, or telephone.

These batteries do contain the same Li-Ion or Li-Poly cells, but are built inside a protective box, together with a series of protection and power management circuitries.

Now, the vape part.

Together with the e-cigarettes, China has exported to the West their rules and policies regarding battery safety.
(And - not related to this - the 28 days warranty, and "buyer pays the return shipping" for faulty items).

The widespread opinion is, this can't last, as vaping is becoming more and more widespread, which in turns call for more controls and regulations. (Sad. As usual - few careless people set the bar low for everybody).
Maybe not everybody knows about ANSI FL1 standard on flashlights - which, unusually, turned to be good for users. That is a very minimal standard, tho.

Sooner or later, the spare lithium batteries for ecigs will have to be encased together with the power management circuitry; the controller chips and management communication bus - already exists and are very cheap.

Alternatively, the battery must be non-removable.

The latter - IMO- will be the most likely choice, as it is already happening with laptop, smartphones et similia, but is the one which I don't like.

This will drive the costs up, but that is the price for user safety.

Along with a mountain of landfill waste.

I tried disposing of a faulty 20700 at my fire station. They told me to throw it away. SMH.

 

[Rossum]

Maybe not everybody knows about ANSI FL1 standard on flashlights - which, unusually, turned to be good for users. That is a very minimal standard, tho.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a performance standard rather than a safety standard?

Sooner or later, the spare lithium batteries for ecigs will have to be encased together with the power management circuitry; the controller chips and management communication bus - already exists and are very cheap.

For a while, Ryobi sold the TEK4 line of small tools that ran on what I'm confident is a single, replaceable 18650. But it was encased, presumably with protective circuitry:

To be clear: The cell next to it is there for comparison only; I have not taken one of these TEK4 batteries apart.

Trouble with such setups is that the manufacturers will inevitably at stop making the "pack" at some point. And if you an still get them, they cost double what a bare 18650 does.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Yep i have tried that also, nobody will take them, got told the same thing, trash em. I have also been told that with my Insulin pens and needles, which I refuse to do. Now have a large box at home with empty pens the needles i take to the Doctors surgery and while in the consulting room waiting, I slip those in to the 'sharps box'.

 

[HigherStateD]

Yep i have tried that also, nobody will take them, got told the same thing, trash em. I have also been told that with my Insulin pens and needles, which I refuse to do. Now have a large box at home with empty pens the needles i take to the Doctors surgery and while in the consulting room waiting, I slip those in to the 'sharps box'.

Office supply, and cell phone stores are good go tos to recycle batteries. Home improvement stores also.

 

[Mordacai]

@Robin Becker, you forgot one.

4. User negligence and or error.

@RayofLight62, that idea will make profits for Juul and the likes as well as more waste. Because pod devices with small mAh capacities which are also closed systems will become more prevalent.