Ban something till its proven safe?...wtf happened to liberty in this country?..lol...put a label on it if you must and restrict unproven claims in marketing, but until someone is proven hurt by this thing in some way i dont think a ban is appropriate...ill be sure to shift my vote accordingly in the next election if a ban goes thru, as well as signing petitions..
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I think this is another good place to post comments on this case.
Please add yours: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/04/fda-sued-over-electronic-cigarette-embargo-.html
Please add yours: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/04/fda-sued-over-electronic-cigarette-embargo-.html
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Hello. I'm new to the forums, so I hope what I'm going to post is allowed. Not sure how this is all set up. And let me say that this isn't a SE promotion post. And at the end it does have relevance to the subject.
Well, basically my story is this. I was told by my doctor about 8 months ago that it was REALLY crucial that I stopped smoking soon because of health reasons. Tried Chantix and, well, let's say that some of the side effects listed, as weird as they sound, really happen and I ended up not taking them anymore.
I am an on-line gamer and was telling my fellow players about trying to quit, ect, and someone told me about electronic cigarettes. I looked on-line and basically saw the njoy and Smoking everywhere brands only. Didn't really spend a whole lot of time researching. I decided to go with the smoking everywhere brand for some random reason though. I ordered the deal and gave it a try.
When I first got it, seemed to work pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Told some friends about it and one of them decided to try it out also. This is where I started to really like Smoking Everywhere. They had a deal if you bought 3 at one time, they'd give you a big discount. Even though I had paid for one 2 weeks prior, they let me have the discount. So, a few weeks later I had 3 of their silver atomizers. The 2 new ones I got didn't work well at all. I called up the SE people and they told me no refunds, BUT they did offer to switch all 3 out for the gold atomizers. No extra charge! At this point I'm really liking this company since they are at least willing to work with me.
I know a lot of you don't like the SE brand, but the gold versions of this product are really good IMO. Sure the cartridges could last longer, but they "smoke" up really well and I have been enjoying them for the past 6 months.
Last month I decide that I like this so much, and it's helped me to breathe better, and not piss off the woman with the tobacco cig smell, that I decide I'm going to try to sell them. I borrow some money, make up some fliers, and a few days ago I put in an order to buy a bunch of these to resell. I get a call a few hours later saying that my shipment is only going to be about half filled and going to be delayed about a week. At first I think "crap happens", oh well. The next day I see the post about FDA getting sued by SE because the FDA is holding their shipments.
I start to panic a little since I just sunk, what to me is, a lot of money into this. I call back and ask to get a refund on my shipment since it hasn't shipped yet. The rep that I had been working with told me basically that I could try to get a refund, but SE has a no refund policy, so it would be difficult. I was basically told it probably wouldn't happen, but if it did, it would be weeks until I saw a refund minus a restocking fee. I asked about the ban on the SE product and was told that there wasn't anything to worry about. My part of my order that was supposedly delayed a week was actually being shipped that day, and the rest of my order had come in and was being shipped also. So..... take that as you want, but supposedly there's no holdup on getting product from SE.
I know that was a bit of a long post, but thought a few of you might find it interesting. I'm really hoping this doesn't get banned. I'm not in it just for the money, I really want people to get their hands on something that will get them off tobacco. I'm actually trying to start off by selling these barely above wholesale for now just to get them in the public eye.
I do have a question though. I have a relative that's in the news business at the local TV station. He thinks that he can get me news coverage on this item. Anything I should avoid saying to keep me out of trouble?
Tujiro
Well, basically my story is this. I was told by my doctor about 8 months ago that it was REALLY crucial that I stopped smoking soon because of health reasons. Tried Chantix and, well, let's say that some of the side effects listed, as weird as they sound, really happen and I ended up not taking them anymore.
I am an on-line gamer and was telling my fellow players about trying to quit, ect, and someone told me about electronic cigarettes. I looked on-line and basically saw the njoy and Smoking everywhere brands only. Didn't really spend a whole lot of time researching. I decided to go with the smoking everywhere brand for some random reason though. I ordered the deal and gave it a try.
When I first got it, seemed to work pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Told some friends about it and one of them decided to try it out also. This is where I started to really like Smoking Everywhere. They had a deal if you bought 3 at one time, they'd give you a big discount. Even though I had paid for one 2 weeks prior, they let me have the discount. So, a few weeks later I had 3 of their silver atomizers. The 2 new ones I got didn't work well at all. I called up the SE people and they told me no refunds, BUT they did offer to switch all 3 out for the gold atomizers. No extra charge! At this point I'm really liking this company since they are at least willing to work with me.
I know a lot of you don't like the SE brand, but the gold versions of this product are really good IMO. Sure the cartridges could last longer, but they "smoke" up really well and I have been enjoying them for the past 6 months.
Last month I decide that I like this so much, and it's helped me to breathe better, and not piss off the woman with the tobacco cig smell, that I decide I'm going to try to sell them. I borrow some money, make up some fliers, and a few days ago I put in an order to buy a bunch of these to resell. I get a call a few hours later saying that my shipment is only going to be about half filled and going to be delayed about a week. At first I think "crap happens", oh well. The next day I see the post about FDA getting sued by SE because the FDA is holding their shipments.
I start to panic a little since I just sunk, what to me is, a lot of money into this. I call back and ask to get a refund on my shipment since it hasn't shipped yet. The rep that I had been working with told me basically that I could try to get a refund, but SE has a no refund policy, so it would be difficult. I was basically told it probably wouldn't happen, but if it did, it would be weeks until I saw a refund minus a restocking fee. I asked about the ban on the SE product and was told that there wasn't anything to worry about. My part of my order that was supposedly delayed a week was actually being shipped that day, and the rest of my order had come in and was being shipped also. So..... take that as you want, but supposedly there's no holdup on getting product from SE.
I know that was a bit of a long post, but thought a few of you might find it interesting. I'm really hoping this doesn't get banned. I'm not in it just for the money, I really want people to get their hands on something that will get them off tobacco. I'm actually trying to start off by selling these barely above wholesale for now just to get them in the public eye.
I do have a question though. I have a relative that's in the news business at the local TV station. He thinks that he can get me news coverage on this item. Anything I should avoid saying to keep me out of trouble?
Tujiro
@ Tujiro
first and foremost - DO NOT MAKE ANY HEALTH CLAIMS! Health claims, such as quitting smoking, Nicotine Replacement Therepy, Healthier than cigarettes, etc. are what the FDA are looking for to shut down the industry.....If we make unsubstanciated claims that these products treat a disease or condition, they fall in the FDA's jurisdiction....
Don't be angry or aggressive, simply tell your story the way you've written it here. If all you're telling about are your personal experiences, you aren't making claims you can't back up - and angry persons are rarely taken seriously.
So, tell your story, voice your concerns, and stay cool....Welcome to the forum!
first and foremost - DO NOT MAKE ANY HEALTH CLAIMS! Health claims, such as quitting smoking, Nicotine Replacement Therepy, Healthier than cigarettes, etc. are what the FDA are looking for to shut down the industry.....If we make unsubstanciated claims that these products treat a disease or condition, they fall in the FDA's jurisdiction....
Don't be angry or aggressive, simply tell your story the way you've written it here. If all you're telling about are your personal experiences, you aren't making claims you can't back up - and angry persons are rarely taken seriously.
So, tell your story, voice your concerns, and stay cool....Welcome to the forum!
Hi Tujiro, welcome to the forum.
The Smoking Everywhere Gold is the RN4081 and you can get it for a fraction of the price SE charges.
Don't make any health or smoking cessation claims and don't say anything you can't prove with proper scientific studies.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rs-forum/6074-marketing-advice-suppliers.html
This quotes UK laws but they are examples of good practice and should be relevant in most countries:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-uk-regulation-sales-marketing-promotion.html
The Smoking Everywhere Gold is the RN4081 and you can get it for a fraction of the price SE charges.
Don't make any health or smoking cessation claims and don't say anything you can't prove with proper scientific studies.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rs-forum/6074-marketing-advice-suppliers.html
This quotes UK laws but they are examples of good practice and should be relevant in most countries:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-uk-regulation-sales-marketing-promotion.html
I just realized I left that question a little open ended. Basicly I just wondering if there's particular phrases I should avoid saying when I describe it if I actually do get on the news. I know don't say they are a cessasion device and so forth, but didn't know if there was any other descriptions to avoid, or should I take this to a different forum?
Tujiro
Tujiro
So what does the Intradepartmental Council on Native American Affairs Membership, to which you are the FDA representitive of HHS have to do with this? Just honestly want to know where you are in all this?
Except if they take the stance of actually banning them altogether.
I had a large order in customs being held by the FDA, and their response is that if it has anything to do with an electronic cigarette, it will be sent back or destroyed.
I think eventually we may be able to do this once lines are drawn and guidelines set, just like water bongs and glass pipes went through.
For a time if it had any drug related purpose, you could not sell it.
Then eventually as things died down we were able to work out the kinks...
So does this men discourse within the ranks of the FDA? Are we to consider this a temporary stay of execution or just the department playing possum until they pull the rug out on Tuesday?
I guess we find out in three days...
I guess we find out in three days...
It's just BS. Bob Goodshall is a poster here and someone exploited that. He is an advocate for ecigs. Someone must have hacked his mail or not - I don;t know. Someone wrote the FDA to ask if this was legit and they say they never heard of it. The details are ^ a few pages.
It's true that shipments are getting held in customs. Some are getting sent back. I am not aware of any getting destroyed although that is a possibility.
About once a week someone on this forum starts a rumor and everyone goes manic. It is true the FDA is on this, and it is true that you should do what you can in the way of advocacy until all this gets resolved. In general - smaller shipments are not getting seized (that I am aware of). The Chinese are on Holiday until May 4 which means they've shut their sites and aren't processing orders (like Ruyan Direct). The Chinese do this. Imagine that - they all take vacation at the same time! Wish we did the same here.
I swear someone does this to start a panic so everyone will start hoarding. Real hoarders hoarded months ago
If you want to start hoarding ecigs and juice, by all means do so. But don't do it because of this stupid fake e-mail.
BTW I order from you all the time and you are da best
Thank you thank you thank you thank you! I am sending all my peeps to you //end threadjack
Many people think that this email is a fake one..
ds1.psc.dhhs.gov/hhsdir/eeQ.asp]HHS[/url] Employee Directory[/url]
If you go to above site, it will tell you who Heather Zawalick is..
Also when you google Janet Woodcock and Deborah Autor , they both are very powerful figure in FDA, and banning of unapproved products in the past.
We should be worried.
ds1.psc.dhhs.gov/hhsdir/eeQ.asp]HHS[/url] Employee Directory[/url]
If you go to above site, it will tell you who Heather Zawalick is..
Also when you google Janet Woodcock and Deborah Autor , they both are very powerful figure in FDA, and banning of unapproved products in the past.
We should be worried.
I don't see how identifying the name used for the e-mail proves that it is not fake
Of course it doesn't prove that; for starters we didn't see the original e-mail with raw headers. But it dashes my hopes that there is no HZ @ FDA. It would be a lot easier for all of us if that was a made-up name.
Also it shows her to be based in Rockville MD, where the phone number's supposed to be... anyone game to call that number and ask if they carry lampshades? I'm thinkin' they'll say no.
(The number googles up as a Lamps Unlimited store but I guess HZ has it now, if the e-mail's true.)Is it me or am I the only one who doesn't see how they can ban e-cigs...the liquid, yes...the e-cig itself?
Bongs are legal in the US, you can go into any head shop and buy one....where you get into trouble is if you have an illegal substance IN the ..... Why would a PVD be any different?
My biggest worry would be people attempting to make their own nic juice and keeling over from nicotine overdose....
What am I missing here?
Bongs are legal in the US, you can go into any head shop and buy one....where you get into trouble is if you have an illegal substance IN the ..... Why would a PVD be any different?
My biggest worry would be people attempting to make their own nic juice and keeling over from nicotine overdose....
What am I missing here?
lorraineg57,
I too hail form PGH area!!!
And no, you are not the only one who feels the devices themselves should be rendered untouchable by the FDA. I have made several comments in the forums about how they are nothing more than battery operated personal vaporizers as opposed to gas ones like the Iolite or ones that use a lighter like the VapBong, both of which do not fall under FDA regulations.
I agree that the only thing up to question is where the juice containing nicotine falls. The 0 level juice should be rendered untouchable as well - all the ingredients of the 0 level are already FDA approved.
However, I don't see the clarification being made in any of the discussion or in the news about proposed FDA view of these. Part of this, IMHO, is due to the mass statements associating the devices as a safer smoke. Even using tobacco in a vaporizer is safer than torching it - but I still prefer vaping the liquid....
"I too hail form PGH area!!!"
>>> GO STEELERS!!!!
"And no, you are not the only one who feels the devices themselves should be rendered untouchable by the FDA."
>>>> "should be rendered untouchable" I don't see how they ARE touchable...legally. Considering the fact that the device itself a) doesn't contain any nicotine, which seems to be part of their argument (kids starting vaping in lieu of smoking: ie: they don't want to lose their tax revenue ESPECIALLY since the major tax increase in analogs. Can you IMAGINE how much revenue they'd lose if HALF the analog smokers switched to e-cigs?)
"Part of this, IMHO, is due to the mass statements associating the devices as a safer smoke. Even using tobacco in a vaporizer is safer than torching it - but I still prefer vaping the liquid"
>>>>So, as far as I can see, the only thing they can legally do is make sure there are no false claims on health issues and ban the sale of e-juice...Don't we have a lawyer on the forum that could verify this?
>>> GO STEELERS!!!!
"And no, you are not the only one who feels the devices themselves should be rendered untouchable by the FDA."
>>>> "should be rendered untouchable" I don't see how they ARE touchable...legally. Considering the fact that the device itself a) doesn't contain any nicotine, which seems to be part of their argument (kids starting vaping in lieu of smoking: ie: they don't want to lose their tax revenue ESPECIALLY since the major tax increase in analogs. Can you IMAGINE how much revenue they'd lose if HALF the analog smokers switched to e-cigs?)
"Part of this, IMHO, is due to the mass statements associating the devices as a safer smoke. Even using tobacco in a vaporizer is safer than torching it - but I still prefer vaping the liquid"
>>>>So, as far as I can see, the only thing they can legally do is make sure there are no false claims on health issues and ban the sale of e-juice...Don't we have a lawyer on the forum that could verify this?
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