Petition to prevent FDA regulations
- Thread starter Huntsvappin
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Finally can't believe it took so long. I can't believe only 25030 people vape. I thought it was way more.
Zapped is correct. I've read articles estimated it into the hundreds of thousands or even low millions. A majority of them do not frequent any forums, and most vendors did not post any notices. I would say at the very least 1/3 to 1/2 of the vapors use the cheap disposables like blu, Logic, or Njoy (either because they don't know different, or have a genuine preference).
First step is done. I still fear it will be a battle won out by tobacco and pharma lobbyists.
They may win a few battles but were fighting for our lives...for a much better life than most of us thought possible when we were smoking. They wont win the war.
Incidentally, Im watching moonshiners right now. If demand is high enough (and I think it is at this point) some enterprising individual concerned more about whats right and wrong versus obeying the letter of the law will find a way to supply that demand.
That's exactly what will happen if they try to take away our e-liquid or lower the allowed nic too far...there will be a lot of people making 'vapeshine' and a lot more vaper's who suddenly get really interested in organic gardening.
Nicotine (if it's not in a pre-filled cartridge for vaping) could not automatically be considered a tobacco product because nicotine is also FDA approved for use as an organic pesticide.
GREAT NEWS! -- We now have 25,244 signatures on the petition and it is still going 
Thank you to everyone who has helped in this effort!
Keep Signing it..... The More, the Better and more impact it can have!
I want to see the number on February 12/13 before they take it down.
Thank you to everyone who has helped in this effort!
Keep Signing it..... The More, the Better and more impact it can have!
I want to see the number on February 12/13 before they take it down.
Last edited:
Money always seems to be a motivator.
BP is spending a lot of that "green stuff" in bribes to protect its profits.
Money always seems to be a motivator.
BP is spending a lot of that "green stuff" in bribes to protect its profits.
Here is a thought....
Someone mentioned to me about money being a key factor in small companies (e.g., vendors) being able
to go through the FDA approval process.
I was thinking just now about this and even though it would be expensive (in the millions), most of the
high end companies like JoyeTech, Vision, Smok, and many others could afford it or at least band together
to afford it.
In the long run, this would gain FDA approval of many hardware and even liquid items....
I also think that once One Liquid is approved (per nic level -- e.g., there would have to be an approval for
each level of nic), then every fluid made within that level could fall under the approval and no further testing
or approval would be necessary or required so long as it is made with the same ingredients and at the same
level ranges.
What we should do is have people write to the major manufacturers of the hardware and liquids and
tell them about the issue regarding the FDA and tell them about the approval process and ask that they
either gain the approvals or band together to do so or else it could affect their market in the USA.
Thoughts on this???
Last edited:
Present your ideas to CASAA...
You can attend one of their meetings once you join...
Become a CASAA Member
And you can also send them emails at the following...
board@casaa.org
I wish that were true, but if it is made or derived from tobacco, it is legally considered a considered a "tobacco product."
What products are considered to be tobacco products as defined by the tobacco control act?
"Intended use" is what determines how nicotine is regulated - as a tobacco product, drug treatment or pesticide. If they use nicotine pesticide in e-cigs (which would be risky) then that changes it into a tobacco product.
For the record, the insecticide is about 40% nicotine, which is at least 10 times more concentrated than most vapers use. If you buy e-cigarette liquid labeled in mg/ml, divide the mg by 10 to determine the percent of the liquid that is nicotine. For example, 6 mg/ml liquid contains 0.6% nicotine, 12 mg/ml = 1.2%, 24 mg/ml = 2.4%, 36 mg/ml - 3.6%, etc.
Please do not make the mistake of telling the world that you use 24% nicotine when what you are using is only 2.4% (i.e. 24 mg/ml) And if you buy pre-filled cartridges that are about the size of a cigarette filter, they usually don't hold an entire ml of liquid--more like 0.3 to 0.5 ml. So a 24 mg/ml cartridge of that size would contain a total of only 8 to 12 mg of nicotine.
Oh, and for insecticides, it doesn't matter much if there are some contaminants present. After all, the purpose is to kill something.
However, pharmaceutical grade nicotine (which is what is used in e-liquid) goes through considerable purification processing. So if we ever reach a situation where e-liquid is difficult to come by, please do not attempt to substitute insecticide!
Please do not make the mistake of telling the world that you use 24% nicotine when what you are using is only 2.4% (i.e. 24 mg/ml) And if you buy pre-filled cartridges that are about the size of a cigarette filter, they usually don't hold an entire ml of liquid--more like 0.3 to 0.5 ml. So a 24 mg/ml cartridge of that size would contain a total of only 8 to 12 mg of nicotine.
Oh, and for insecticides, it doesn't matter much if there are some contaminants present. After all, the purpose is to kill something.
However, pharmaceutical grade nicotine (which is what is used in e-liquid) goes through considerable purification processing. So if we ever reach a situation where e-liquid is difficult to come by, please do not attempt to substitute insecticide!
Last edited:
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
I never intended to suggest that anyone should think about trying to use the nicotine from existing organic pesticides in their e-liquids, but those pesticides are derived from tobacco and they do not fall under the tobacco control act because they are not 'intended for human consumption'.
I was implying that vendors could just start to sell liquid nicotine (and to be clear, I do mean the kind that's used in our e-liquids and DIY supplies) as an effective pesticide for use in organic gardening.
What I said was (sort of) meant to be a joke, about how any decent lawyer could use a loophole that, because of the wording of the tobacco control act, could actually be made into a viable argument in court.
After all, it doesn't say anywhere on any plain nicotine bottle (or even any flavored liquids I've ordered) that the liquid is intended for vaping or for human consumption. Any of our liquids would actually work as an organic pesticide, because nicotine is the active ingredient in those pesticides and ours is purer.
If a vendor does not sell any 'e-cigarette' or 'e-liquid' products and they offer their nicotine liquids as 'organic pesticides' the vendor can make the legally valid claim that the products are not meant for human consumption and hence not subject to the tobacco control act. Despite the fact that their customers can use the products for something other than their intended purpose, that is not the vendors problem as long as the product is clearly marked and labeled. It would completely negate the 'tobacco product' regulation problem for any vaper willing to DIY, and other vendors could still offer 0mg flavor blends designed for dilution with plain nic.
Of course, if they won in court, all the FDA would have to do is regulate/restrict the use of the nicotine based organic pesticides and those are under their jurisdiction too...
Again, it was mostly a joke.
Last edited:
Signatures needed by february 13, 2013 to reach goal of 25,000 - Goal reached, but keep on signing, lets show a bigger number!
total signatures on this petition - 25,634
total signatures on this petition - 25,634
...edit...
Again, it was mostly a joke.
I thought what you said is interesting and funny. It's precisely that type of thinking that people don't realize enough occurs outside of those formal proceedings...
OK, playing along then, the nicotine products used as pesticides are not free from regulations, though. They are regulated by and must register for approval from the EPA and it seems that the EPA started phasing out approvals for new nicotine pesticides in 2008: Nicotine Reregistration Eligibility Decision; Notice of Availability | Federal Register Environmental Documents | USEPA So it seems it would be highly unlikely vendors will be able to advertise and sell e-cig liquids as pesticides. Nice try though!
Kristin they wouldn't have to sell it as new pesticide. They could however sell it as organic pesticide product. Of course they would have to figure out away to make themselves look like an organic garden type vender. LOL
I don't think that is true, Florida. All pesticides are regulated by the EPA and USDA. From that link I posted, the EPA is apparently no longer approving any commercially sold nicotine pesticides (whether or not its advertised as organic) and the USDA prohibits products treated with nicotine sulfate as being labeled organic. I think people may be misunderstanding that the government does regulate organic products being sold to the public and that nicotine treatments to plants are considered "organic" for home gardeners who make a homemade tobacco tea to use, not commercially sold nicotine liquid. Besides that, a solution containing PG and artificial flavoring chemicals wouldn't be considered organic. IFOAM also doesn't allow members to use nicotine pesticides, so organic organizations don't even consider it to be organic. The point is, if you are selling a nicotine pesticide to the public, you ARE subject to EPA approval and regulation and neither the USDA or IFOAM consider nicotine pesticide to be organic.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
