I also agree that this is what the FDA will do. The problem isn't that the gov't wants to protect "us" from false claims. The problem is that the gov't knows the claims are true. This is, and has always been, only about money and power. The gov't could care less about our health.
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I also agree that this is what the FDA will do. The problem isn't that the gov't wants to protect "us" from false claims. The problem is that the gov't knows the claims are true. This is, and has always been, only about money and power. The gov't could care less about our health.
I just don't see how they can possibly ban a device which by itself has no legal violation for lack of a better term. No part of the vaporizer or even the vaporizer as a unit is illegal or from my understanding denied under any regulation. (Back to the .... analogy).
Even if they DID want to protect the public, I don't see how they can legally ban the device itself.
If you read the FDA language, the e-cig has a "primary purpose," which the agency defines as delivering nicotine to an addict. That being their case, the e-cig is a drug-delivery device -- and those require FDA approval as "medical devices".
That's how THEY see it. No one has to agree .. but we don't really count. They do.
That's how THEY see it. No one has to agree .. but we don't really count. They do.
Absolutely. No way can they ban the device. They could make a stink about a starter kit, but suppliers could just sell parts individually. The e-juice with nicotine is the issue. If banned I would expect some suppliers to get quite creative.
I think even with no nic juice we got a problem. Though it has ingrediants that the FDA has approved for use in food and medicine it hasn't been approved for vaporazation and inhalation. I've never seen any flavoring that says "FDA approved for inhalation". So I think they got us whether there is nic or not in the juice as it being sold as something to inhale and not ingest. Just my opinion of course.
I think you have a point there....I could see the juice being a problem.
Well, since we all know that money is usually a big factor in how people like the FDA see things, I think that someone who had a few million to send their way could get them to try and ban just about anything. Or not ban something, as the case may be.
But the fact is that people like us really have no voice in these dealings because we can't pay admission fees to the game.
I bet just about anybody here would say e-cigs were horrible if you gave them a million dollars to say it, whether they believe it or not, they would still say it.
Such is big business. Such is human nature. Ethics and morals are for sale to the highest bidder. Expect the FDA to do what they are Paid to do, the only question is- who is paying the most?
But the fact is that people like us really have no voice in these dealings because we can't pay admission fees to the game.
I bet just about anybody here would say e-cigs were horrible if you gave them a million dollars to say it, whether they believe it or not, they would still say it.
Such is big business. Such is human nature. Ethics and morals are for sale to the highest bidder. Expect the FDA to do what they are Paid to do, the only question is- who is paying the most?
I have used this forum for the majority of my information. First let me say thank you. All of your insight combined inspired me to buy my 901 a little over a month ago. Prior to reciving my 901 i smoked a carton of Newports a week. Had 6 packs left in my carton the day i got my 901. I still have 4 packs left. For me, 40 analogs in 1 month is a huge accomplishment. The majority were smoked when my batterys were dead or over my morning cup of coffee out of pure habbit.
In regards to the possible ban. God I hope not. Ive signed the petition, sent my elected officials an e-mail, and have my fingers crossed with the rest of you. I cant help but think that Ruyan has a strategy though. I know enough about business and politcs to imagine that the right people on our side are talking behind closed doors to the right people in power. I dont think SE helped our cause by moving so fast with their lawsuit. Then again someone had to throw the first stone. Call me goofy but i am optimistic that if there is an announcement on Tuesday it may not be an outright ban. I think this because the FDA leaves its self open for further lawsuits if they attempt to come down too hard before givin broader authority once the Waxman bill passes. The fact that they are making a move now may indicate the FDA is going to hollar really loud about the "marketing" of PVs but not be willing just yet to shut us down all together. I guess we will see for sure on Tuesday.
In regards to the possible ban. God I hope not. Ive signed the petition, sent my elected officials an e-mail, and have my fingers crossed with the rest of you. I cant help but think that Ruyan has a strategy though. I know enough about business and politcs to imagine that the right people on our side are talking behind closed doors to the right people in power. I dont think SE helped our cause by moving so fast with their lawsuit. Then again someone had to throw the first stone. Call me goofy but i am optimistic that if there is an announcement on Tuesday it may not be an outright ban. I think this because the FDA leaves its self open for further lawsuits if they attempt to come down too hard before givin broader authority once the Waxman bill passes. The fact that they are making a move now may indicate the FDA is going to hollar really loud about the "marketing" of PVs but not be willing just yet to shut us down all together. I guess we will see for sure on Tuesday.
Anyone know whatever happened with the FDA trying to halt the sale of Ariva nicotine tabs and nicotine lozenges? I'd think the same argument would apply if they got slammed on that one...
They definitely can, and we can probably find a way around it if they do. I worked at a headshop for a few years (in the 80s, but still) and we did not sell bongs, period. We sold water pipes for tobacco use only, see? If anybody asked for a .... they'd be gently redirected, and if they insisted on using that term, we'd have to ask them to leave the store. Anytime a customer said something that was related to drug-taking, we had a legal alternative to offer them, i.e. NO sir we don't sell CUT for your ......., we sell "vitamin supplements", wouldn't you like some of those instead sir? "Containers" instead of "vials" etc. etc.
That said, there was a year or two when the paraphrenalia laws were super strict and the store couldn't get away with that. They were a novelty shop for awhile, selling posters and t-shirts and hippie junk. But they eventually figured out how to make it work.
But that's my point...they couldn't ban the actual device. They were only able to keep you from advertising it for a specific illegal purpose.
The FDA refused jurisdiction because the tab was similar to smokeless tobacco products and were not under their purview.
There are 2 FDA bills the Waxman (HR1256) and the Burr (HR1108). The Waxman bill does not favor reduced risk products while the Burr bill does. You can find a better explanation at ACSH, tab health issues, title:
House Lights Up FDA Regulation (from the Washington Times)
House Lights Up FDA Regulation (from the Washington Times)
ah...so it was in essence a smokeless "nicotine delivery system"...so that would be different than a e-cig how? One Ariva tab has the same amount of nicotine in a cigarette. So there's no issue with the kiddies using that?
I can't help but think if we could find another use for it, they couldn't do anything about it. This company "Bogetech.com" sells vitamin e-liquids. Couldn't we change it's "purpose" to a vitamin delivery system and keep regulation away from it?
Here are some of the flavors they offer:
VitaminA, Vitamin B,Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Coenzyme Q10, CoenzymeQ10+VitaminA,Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin B, Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin , collagen,carotene,ginseng.
Opinions please
Here are some of the flavors they offer:
VitaminA, Vitamin B,Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Coenzyme Q10, CoenzymeQ10+VitaminA,Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin B, Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10+Vitamin , collagen,carotene,ginseng.
Opinions please
I would think they'd need to be deemed safe to inhale for that to fly.
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