As the second week in August is getting closer, I just gotta say...

[Just Me]

For the last several years, I was in la-la land, thinking "Oh, well, the deeming thing won't be so bad. We'll have to adjust to (whatever). In truth, I was just like all the rest of Americans listening to the media--age limitations, e-juice and bottle safety, etc. "Protect the children", of course. But I abruptly woke up in May and decided it was going to be much worse than I ever imagined. I still hope something intervenes, but I'm not betting on it.

To me, this approaching sledge-hammer is like the way I would feel if we had a tornado shelter to save our family, but we couldn't invite our friends and neighbors in. Or we escaped right before a hurricane warning and couldn't persuade others to leave.

I still can't believe this is all happening.

 

[bnrkwest]

I was the same and I felt very comfortable thinking my vendors were here to stay because vape was so big, how could it ever be quashed. It is so successful in getting us off smokes, clearly everyone knows that. Wrong! I have been scrambling to stock up since May too. It is a crazy time for us.

 

[Tempesta]

i want to panic, but that does no good. A crazy time, indeed. If you haven't done so, join the activist associations for vaping and write, write, call your Congress people.

 

[DaveP]

We still have lots of time before the hammer falls. And, Congress may reign in the FDA as we put pressure on our own representatives to take in account the good that vaping does to get people off cigarettes.

The battle is over vaping taking profits away from big tobacco. The less profit they make, the more likely they are to default in MSA payments to states. The states know that and they are attacking vaping to preserve BT's ability to pay them off. It's a political game that's driven by a money issue. They know that vaping is far safer than smoking.

 

[coolerat]

I started out prepping. Then I started thinking the seeming wouldn't be that bad. But I was well stocked.

Then it came down and it is so much worse then my worst fears. I really wasn't ready in my mind for how bad it is. But I am ready in my freezer and that what really counts.

I feel bad for current smokers but it is what it is.

 

[RandyF]

We still have lots of time before the hammer falls. And, Congress may reign in the FDA as we put pressure on our own representatives to take in account the good that vaping does to get people off cigarettes.

The battle is over vaping taking profits away from big tobacco. The less profit they make, the more likely they are to default in MSA payments to states. The states know that and they are attacking vaping to preserve BT's ability to pay them off. It's a political game that's driven by a money issue. They know that vaping is far safer than smoking.

BT is not in a position to default on their MSA payments, and likely would never get to that point, but you are correct in that vaping is cutting into their bottom line and they would like it to disappear as much as anyone. The MSA is important to the states because THEY will default on the loans they took out in anticipation of the payments from BT, payments they had grown accustom to prior to vaping to balance their budgets. The payment they receive is based off the amount of tobacco sales generated in the respective state, which is why you see California and New York going after vaping the hardest. They received the largest amounts and borrowed heavily against those payments.

There is so much information that needs to be put out to the non-vapers/non-smokers, and while the effort is growing with things like "A Billion Lives" and "E-cigarettes: Miracle or Menace", there needs to be more done, media wise, to get to the people that don't care either way. Right now those people only have the anti-vape community going out their way to paint a picture, that needs to change. The anti-vape camp has no problem lying to people with manufactured studies and false information. We actually have facts and truth, yet for the most part, we simply sit on our hands and hope a few can beat the FDA into submission. It is just frustrating that with the millions (billions?) vaping generates, so few are willing to fight back in the media.

 

[VNeil]

BT is not in a position to default on their MSA payments, and likely would never get to that point, but you are correct in that vaping is cutting into their bottom line and they would like it to disappear as much as anyone. The MSA is important to the states because THEY will default on the loans they took out in anticipation of the payments from BT, payments they had grown accustom to prior to vaping to balance their budgets. The payment they receive is based off the amount of tobacco sales generated in the respective state, which is why you see California and New York going after vaping the hardest. They received the largest amounts and borrowed heavily against those payments.

There is so much information that needs to be put out to the non-vapers/non-smokers, and while the effort is growing with things like "A Billion Lives" and "E-cigarettes: Miracle or Menace", there needs to be more done, media wise, to get to the people that don't care either way. Right now those people only have the anti-vape community going out their way to paint a picture, that needs to change. The anti-vape camp has no problem lying to people with manufactured studies and false information. We actually have facts and truth, yet for the most part, we simply sit on our hands and hope a few can beat the FDA into submission. It is just frustrating that with the millions (billions?) vaping generates, so few are willing to fight back in the media.

The Media is actively censuring the truth. Don't blame the industry. The media complicity is a key foundation in the war on vaping

 

[RandyF]

The Media is actively censuring the truth. Don't blame the industry. The media complicity is a key foundation in the war on vaping

I don't mean the news media, that is a lost cause, all of them are bought and paid for. I mean commercials, magazines, billboards, radio, whatever outlet can be utilized to get truthful information to people that have no reason to seek it out themselves. It doesn't only need to be information about how much safer vaping is, it needs to information about why people are being lied to, like the MSA. "The Truth About Vaping" put out some excellent videos, it would be great to see them, or others like them, actually make their way to TV.

 

[IMFire3605]

We still have lots of time before the hammer falls. And, Congress may reign in the FDA as we put pressure on our own representatives to take in account the good that vaping does to get people off cigarettes.

The battle is over vaping taking profits away from big tobacco. The less profit they make, the more likely they are to default in MSA payments to states. The states know that and they are attacking vaping to preserve BT's ability to pay them off. It's a political game that's driven by a money issue. They know that vaping is far safer than smoking.

Hate to call this out, but it is not BT that is our enemy lobby here, NicoPure (Halo) owned by parent BT company, Cutwood just got bought by "BT", BT has been moving in, not against us, the bigger money losers are from "State Governments" losing revenue to the tobacco taxes, the biggest of them all is "Big Pharma", we are taking profits from their sales of Nic Replacement, tobacco quitting drugs, and chemo-therapy drugs to fight cancers caused by smoking/tobacco use. That is my opinion looking at how BT has been maneuvering that past 4 years to compensate their lost revenues with the declines is tobacco consumption, and just my opinion thus far, not meaning to sound aggressive or calling you out Dave, just everyone is blaming the wrong freight train, imo.

O/T
I'm a pescamist by nature, and highly pescamistic of the US government in general, so I wasn't to surprised at how far the FDA wanted to over reach their power. I've got plenty of PG, VG, and Nic base to sustain my needs as I'm now down to vaping 90% of the time on unflavored liquids, enough mechs, replacement parts, and every atomizer I use is rebuildable, should be set for at least the next 3 or so years of self sustainment. Just hoping the Cole/Bishop amendment get some attention as well as the hinted at lawsuits starting making steam ahead. My biggest anxiety at the moment is number of vendors available in the coming 6 months after the 8/8 deadline.

 

[440BB]

NicoPure (Halo) owned by parent BT company

I don't think Nicopure has any relationship with the tobacco companies. Their lawsuit was filed the day the FDA published the deeming regulations. Any sources?

 

[IMFire3605]

I had heard, may be rumor, may be not, can't find any ties by searching company sites and such, but one of the complaints was not to be able to have "Mild" on the label of an e-liquid for menthols when one of the parent company's owns "Black & Mild", which is a subsidiary of Altria. May be wrong but for the life of me can't find the bookmark at my present computer for it.

 

[DaveP]

Hate to call this out, but it is not BT that is our enemy lobby here, NicoPure (Halo) owned by parent BT company, Cutwood just got bought by "BT", BT has been moving in, not against us, the bigger money losers are from "State Governments" losing revenue to the tobacco taxes, the biggest of them all is "Big Pharma", we are taking profits from their sales of Nic Replacement, tobacco quitting drugs, and chemo-therapy drugs to fight cancers caused by smoking/tobacco use. That is my opinion looking at how BT has been maneuvering that past 4 years to compensate their lost revenues with the declines is tobacco consumption, and just my opinion thus far, not meaning to sound aggressive or calling you out Dave, just everyone is blaming the wrong freight train, imo.

O/T
I'm a pescamist by nature, and highly pescamistic of the US government in general, so I wasn't to surprised at how far the FDA wanted to over reach their power. I've got plenty of PG, VG, and Nic base to sustain my needs as I'm now down to vaping 90% of the time on unflavored liquids, enough mechs, replacement parts, and every atomizer I use is rebuildable, should be set for at least the next 3 or so years of self sustainment. Just hoping the Cole/Bishop amendment get some attention as well as the hinted at lawsuits starting making steam ahead. My biggest anxiety at the moment is number of vendors available in the coming 6 months after the 8/8 deadline.

I agree with you IMFire3605. The thing is, the more vaping the less BT sells in their core business interests and the less tax the states get. Vaping is growing rapidly and will probably triple in the next few years. BT can see the projections and it's scary since vaping is being shown to be much less harmful than smoking, 95% less according to the British Royal College of physicians.

Vape industry blows away tobacco industry in growth - Finance Post

I look for a tax at least on juice to offset the tax loss on cigarettes. If BT gets a juice tax, so will vaping. BT's biggest reason for government to allow the continuance of smoking is state revenue. BT weren't fools when they agreed to pay under the MSA. I think they knew that would guarantee their existence at least for the next 25 years under the original agreement. Just my opinion.