Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[vaptamist]

Yup. Sorry, I'm not here to waste my time trying to educate the willfully ignorant, but I will speak up and point out when someone parrots off a cop out catch phrase that annoys me.

It's the Internet, resources are vast and readily available. If he wants to educate himself he can do it on his own time, not mine.

 

[Heldar]

Yup. Sorry, I'm not here to waste my time trying to educate the willfully ignorant, but I will speak up and point out when someone parrots off a cop out catch phrase that annoys me.

It's the Internet, resources are vast and readily available. If he wants to educate himself he can do it on his own time, not mine.

You seem to be confused with morally or ethicly wrong, which i never argued against, and technological advancement. But thats fine, pro-authentics love to, as you put it, "parot off" the same cop outs.

 

[vaptamist]

Not confused at all. We are "talking" about mechanical mod design, or the lack there of (from your perspective).

 

[TheProphet]

Yup. Sorry, I'm not here to waste my time trying to educate the willfully ignorant,

And that kind of BS attitude is why these lines get drawn and these types of threads never get anywhere.

 

[vaptamist]

Please. This thread was done before it started.

 

[Heldar]

Not confused at all. We are "talking" about mechanical mod design, or the lack there of (from your perspective).

I never said there wasnt a design. I said there wasnt much of innovation. There is a reason all mech mods look the same with the exception of aesthetics. They are tubes that hold batteries made to look pretty. If we are talking about design theft, all mod makers, cloners or authentic designers, are stealing from each other.

 

[vaptamist]

You've already made your stance clear. I've also made it clear I'm not going to get into an argument that will go nowhere because it gets bogged down into semantics and subjective opinion. You already stated you don't even like to use mechs. It would be like arguing about ingredients for a food you don't even eat or like.

 

[NealBJr]

Missed this post... been looking for a place just to vent my opinion... so here goes.

Part of running a business is not only about coming up with a new product, but also in the marketing and efficiency of your business model. Just about anything can be made at a price, and everyone's perfect Ecig can be made. However, the cost efficiency of coming out with that product makes things not feasible.

When a company comes out with a mod or atomizer, they've done the research into the mechanics, and came out with a finished product. They then hire out someone to make the mod for them, and the end result is a $200 mod/atomizer that they designed. Their designing and engineering skills may have been exellent, but their business model is rather poor. On the other side of the world, there is a place that has plenty of manufacturing capabilities, but their engineering traits aren't as strong as someone here in the states. They can produce things cheaply since their business model is churning out affordable mods/atomizers.

So, is it moral or ethical to support a poor business model? If I came out with a car that does 60 miles per gallon, has comfortable seats, navigation that would be updated every minute, awesome acceleration, etc.. the perfect economy car... but... since I am a small business man, I have to charge $100,000 for the car. Ford comes out with their version...which gets 55 miles per gallon, has comfortable seats, navigation that would be updated ever five minutes, great acceleration, etc..... But they have the factories and infrastructure setup to be able to offer that car for $15,000. Guess which one I'm going to buy...the Ford. would it be ethical for the small company to sue Ford for making a product that people CAN afford?

That's what's happening here... the companies in China has the industrial capacity to make things cheaper. Instead of viewing them as a barrier, has anyone even thought of using them as an Asset? If they're worried about their Quality control, then have them manufacture the parts, and then YOU do the Quality control. Sueing someone for having a better manufacturing process doesn't sound ethical.

I personally like to support original mod makers. However, I have a choice to either give $200 to a mod maker or spend $30 for the mod, and spend the $170 for my 7 yr old's birthday. Which do you think I'd support more? I think they're just trying to sue other people... all because their business practice isn't as efficient as someone elses. Besides.. the money they spent on the lawyers could have been spent in lowering the price. That money could've been spent on new CNC machines, software upgrades, or other ways to streamline the process. Instead of spending their profits to lower the price, they spend it on trying to get more money.... not very ethical.

anyways, Just my worth.

 

[dr g]

Although I generally agree with this sentiment, designs are a more of a gray area than maker's names, logos, and false country-of-origin markings. How does a consumer (or even someone who wants to produce legitimate, lower-cost alternative) know what is and is not original about a design?

Not grey when it's a 100% copy or nearly so, which is basically how cloning goes in the vaping industry. There are both legal (trade dress) and ethical issues. The external design is as much a trademark as logos and words.

Competing makers can appropriate unpatented elements of functional design, but it needs to look different externally otherwise it's infringement.

After all, cloners make their atties look like authentic atties for a clear reason. They could make the exact same design but in a completely different looking package, and be perfectly legitimate, but they know as well as everyone else does that they sell better and/or for more if they clearly resemble an authentic product.

 

[NathanielFT]

Noticed the clone vs original argument has moved away from the 'china clones are inferior in quality' argument, and it all seems to be about morals and ethics now because clones are good these days and getting better with each release - to the extent that StattQualm have just released a load of new verification requirements if you want product aftercare, because even they can't distinguish between the upcoming squape reloaded clone and their own original.


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[Jman8]

Although I generally agree with this sentiment, designs are a more of a gray area than maker's names, logos, and false country-of-origin markings. How does a consumer (or even someone who wants to produce legitimate, lower-cost alternative) know what is and is not original about a design?

The word "clone" would be a pretty good indicator to the consumer.

(Speaking to other posters) If designs are all the same and it is just a metal tube, then my $20 cigalikes are some of the best mods around. Got a lifetime warranty on them too.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

If one wants to take the ride, buy the damn ticket.. Pay the cost of admission.

Same can be said for mod makers who don't get their intellectual property protected then expect big daddy gubmint to take care of them after the fact.

 

[Heldar]

The word "clone" would be a pretty good indicator to the consumer.

(Speaking to other posters) If designs are all the same and it is just a metal tube, then my $20 cigalikes are some of the best mods around. Got a lifetime warranty on them too.

In terms of the metal tube that holds the battery, pretty much yea. Not much to be changed or needs to be changed there. The thing thats attached to the battery... well thats a whole different discussion that does include R/D and actual development outside of looks.

 

[Jman8]

Cry harder.

Was this directed at OP? One would think so.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Was this directed at OP? One would think so.

The Anti-clone crowd is obviously crying hardest in this thread, so I guess I don't need to tell them to cry harder, so....

 

[NathanielFT]

The Anti-clone crowd is obviously crying hardest in this thread, so I guess I don't need to tell them to cry harder, so....

Why would pro-clone people be crying, its all going swimmingly for us at the moment


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[jimbodaddy74]

It has been my experience that a lot o the same people whining about clones are the same folk that extol the superiority of the free market*










*except when that same free market bites them in the behind.

 

[snork]

It has been my experience that a lot o the same people whining about clones are the same folk that extol the superiority of the free market*










*except when that same free market bites them in the behind.

Well, I'm not whining about clones, I'm whining about jacked up people who have nothing but opinion to back them up and need pieces of paper to tell them right from wrong.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Well, I'm not whining about clones, I'm whining about jacked up people who have nothing but opinion to back them up and need pieces of paper to tell them right from wrong.

So you're whining about people who took advantage of the free market that bit you. Got it.

 

[TheProphet]

Well, I'm not whining about clones, I'm whining about jacked up people who have nothing but opinion to back them up and need pieces of paper to tell them right from wrong.

Except that right and wrong is in and of itself an opinion. Some think that gay marriage is right, some think it's wrong. When a piece of paper decides that fate are you just automatically going to convert your view to match what's on the paper?