B&M pricing is crazy!

[deboraht]

I am in two minds about B&M stores.

On one hand, the VAMO Chinese clone sold to us for about $60 at B&M stopped working and was replaced - The Good
A few B&M stores here sell a 30ml for $10 - Fair and Good
Wizard Nic selling below or equal to online _- Good!!!
Knowledge and questions answered - Good

Clearomizer bought online $1.99, in store $15 - Bad
Kanger replacement coil $5 (one) at one store and $3 at another (wrong coil) I found for 95c online -Bad
Concentrates I bought for $11 for 30ml I found online for $7 for 120ml - Bad
Tips costing $15 in store, online $2 - Bad

I understand the overheads of a B&M store, and I also know some Chinese retailers selling the same stuff for 1/5 the price (I imagine what the B&M store pay wholesale), mostly everything they sell is imported from China.

I think the B&M stores make their profit from new vapers who are thrilled that there is an alternative to smoking and will happily pay for a device that will help them stop. However resources like the ECF are B&M stores worst nightmare, once you do your research you realize that an Ego starter kit you paid $99 for is actually $25 from some online store, who are also making a profit from the sale, you start to feel royally ripped off. Since reading post on ECF and scouring hundreds on online stores for prices i have not bought any pre mix juice from a B&M or online, many bottles of which I threw away because they were awful, I literally dumped $80 down the sink. If I DIY it's my fault and i can tweak it.

People are in business to make profit obviously, and there is no shame in that, that's the economy we live in. My feeling is the surge in B&M stores in many cities is in some cases to make a quick buck (and this can surely be done if you have start up capital), in some cases it's people who believe they are servicing a community who wishes to to give up smoking, the altruists if you like.

I am selective about what i buy from B&M stores, I buy items I feel are fairly priced and don't object to the owner making a fair profit from doing all the ordering and maintaining the store and employing people. I avoid things i know i can get for 1/5th of the price which are usually small things like coil replacements that I have to change often to be able to vape, these are the things that the stores KNOW a desperate vaper will rush in and buy if they are not stocked up or waiting for in the mail.(Like paying double for toilet paper at 7/11 - you gotta have it!)

Most on this forum who have carefully researched price KNOW what PG/VG Nic and flavor costs, even though i KNOW I can make a bottle for $2, I am happy to pay $10 if in a hurry, for convenience, and that's what B&M stores are, convenient and they charge convenience store prices. So far I have not found one B&M store that covers everything I want (Vallmart LOL), none are big enough to accommodate everyone's needs.

Because vaping is still up in air in relation to health no one is going to open a mega store, it's too risky, a hole in the wall store is quick to pack up if things flip and laws are changed. It's seen as a fad by some, but for ex smokers, it's a way out of a bad habit. I may not vape for the rest of my life, for as we know it's high maintenance!

 

[Rocketpunk]

After being a server for over 15 years, these arguments make me cringe, angry, and my blood pressure spike. Thanks a lot, man! ;-) But no, seriously, there was a saying among us servers... If you can't afford to eat there, don't eat there. Nothing irked us more than people asking us nonstop how much things cost. "How much does a loaded potato cost? Are pops free refills? Is salad dressing extra?" They proceed to order a fifty dollar dinner, and leave a couple of bucks on the table. I can already feel my blood pressure rising... GAH! At least, thank GOD I'm no longer in that field of work. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY IT (or leave a decent tip -- grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr), DON'T GO THERE. Go to a fast food joint. (Anyone who wants to argue this with me, let's take it to PM's, because I will. get. riled. up.)

But getting back on topic. B&M's have costs you may or may not know about. They are a business, and businesses seek to make money. They will. Now, as a shopper, you exercised your ability to leave and not purchase anything, which was good. But honestly, it didn't hurt that B&M one little bit. Your rant won't hurt them one little bit. Also, not all B&M's charge that much, so lumping all B&M's together was bad, m'kay.

 

[Rodeorat]

The Vaping industry/community is very young and we're seeing Free Enterprise play itself out.
Truth is, the fancy B&M with several helpful employees, with good inventory and reasonable prices simply may not be a sustainable business model. Considering online options, the margins on hardware are paper thin. They're much higher on e-liquid, and as such, many B&Ms can charge reasonable prices for juice.
It's just not good business to have 3 or 4 teenagers sitting around vaping, in a Triple-net leased corner shop in a strip mall, yet only pull 10-30% profit on your sales. They almost HAVE to double/triple their prices to keep the doors open.
Eventually, many of these B&Ms will have to adjust their model or close their doors. It's just the process they must go through as the market requires them to. Vaping shops are more appropriate for kiosk type setups or online.

Personally, I would appreciate a local shop that sold clones from overseas and was honest about it, and priced it accordingly. I believe such a shop would "smoke" the local vaping competition. If it works, most of us vapers dont care if its a clone. Just dont price it like its a limited edition.

 

[Barbara21]

<snip>
I went to a B&M yesterday for a quick fix on some juice, and their prices were ridiculous! Out of the 3 brands of pre-package fluids they liked I only liked 1, and it was mediocre at best... but figured I would try it just to hold me over for a week. Turns out they wanted $15 for a 15ml bottle of it. I left it at the store.
<snip>

How often have you (generic you) bought samples of juices (over the internet) and not liked any of them? It would have cost you money to buy samples online while the store let you try stuff for free. And you're complaining that their juices are mediocre and over-priced? I've often felt the same way over samples I bought online - and they actually cost me money.

IMHO, the big advantage of B&M stores is that you can try things. To many people want to use the store to comparison shop (try samples, learn how something works, whatever) and then take their business online.

 

[mare ze dotes]

I am going to my first B&M next month. Have none by me but am taking a visit back home. They have one there that I found online. They have a small online inventory and it is more expensive. But not by a whole lot. I am planning on getting an authentic joytech ego. ( the Upgrades, weird features but I like them) It is listed at about $6 more than others, but no shipping fee, so it sort of works out evenish. Plus they have a tasting bar and I get to finally meet another vaper. Priceless.

 

[proraptor]

I have no problem paying 1 dollar per ml when I get to sit at a nice bar and try hundreds of flavors before I buy. Id hate to blindly order juice on the net and hate them all.

 

[Arnie H]

There are some vape shop owners who have opened one because they saw a need (nothing local), they are vapers themselves, and really do believe in the product and want to help people quit smoking. If they can make a little money too, its a win win. Their heart is in the right place. Whether they go out of business or not, perhaps it will help someone stop smoking. So a failure can be a success. It's where your heart is, that matters. I feel for these people, I used to be a business owner myself.

Just like the vapor activists. They are fighting the good fight, if they lose, we all lose. But at least they can say they tried!

Others are only in it for the money, and if one vape shop is successful, people will see this, and more will follow. Some are hedging their bets, selling tobacco products and e-cigs, or other stuff. Some of them are really Savvy business folk. Some people don't even use the internet and prefer the face to face interaction. As a business owner, there is no greater feeling than making your customers happy and satisfied.

 

[Rodeorat]

I think for me, and probably for most of us, the frustrating part is that B&Ms DO have a purpose. They offer a service that we desire or even need. We want to sample juices before we buy, and we want to talk to a pro and maybe buy hardware on the spot, rather than wait for vapemail. That's all well and good.
Unfortunately, the B&Ms, in general, price gouge us out of that service. If they were more expensive only a little, I doubt there would be as much argument.
And yes, I would lump most of them in together. I'm sure there are good ones out there, but that's the exception, not the norm.
I can show you at least 6 B&Ms in the OKC area, 5 in DFW, 2 in the FL panhandle, and one in Conway AR, all with ridiculously high prices for basic gear. Maybe some have found some good shops, but I think its apparent that high prices in B&Ms are the norm.

 

[bebop.rocksteady]

I work at a B&M and I think our prices are fair for the services we provide with the product. Some people will remain ignorant and rant and rave and compare B&M prices to online prices. These two venues are completely different beasts. One requires staffing and electricity, maintenance etc.

That being said, some juice prices are outstanding for no real reason and that might be a turn off, but compared to the money saved and health benefits the complaining is pretty silly. There are some B&Ms here locally that price their products at an extremely expensive rate simply because the industry is young enough that the customer simply doesn't know any better. This is unfair and generally bad business practice. It truly reflects badly on the industry as a whole.

B&M prices will always be substantially more than online prices and THAT'S OK. Hopefully businesses will offer services that compensate for the extra money. Their prices should make them money, that's what were in business for right? In the interest of keeping the industry lucrative and trusted, B&Ms should strive to provide the best prices for their area and provide an education with the product.

These threads urk the begeezus out of me. But so do cheap, ill-informed people.

 

[Penn]

After being a server for over 15 years, these arguments make me cringe, angry, and my blood pressure spike. Thanks a lot, man! ;-) But no, seriously, there was a saying among us servers... If you can't afford to eat there, don't eat there. Nothing irked us more than people asking us nonstop how much things cost. "How much does a loaded potato cost? Are pops free refills? Is salad dressing extra?" They proceed to order a fifty dollar dinner, and leave a couple of bucks on the table. I can already feel my blood pressure rising... GAH! At least, thank GOD I'm no longer in that field of work. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY IT (or leave a decent tip -- grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr), DON'T GO THERE. Go to a fast food joint. (Anyone who wants to argue this with me, let's take it to PM's, because I will. get. riled. up.)

But getting back on topic. B&M's have costs you may or may not know about. They are a business, and businesses seek to make money. They will. Now, as a shopper, you exercised your ability to leave and not purchase anything, which was good. But honestly, it didn't hurt that B&M one little bit. Your rant won't hurt them one little bit. Also, not all B&M's charge that much, so lumping all B&M's together was bad, m'kay.

B&M has overhead, yes. Everything else here, what!?

You post this in public then say take it to PM's? Not really.

You have this backwards. You are in the service industry. That means it is you that needs to bend. If you don't like people asking how much it costs, if the refills are free, or is salad dressing extra YOU need to consider a new line of work. If you can't handle delivering good service knowing you may be under tipped or stiffed, you need to get an hourly job that doesn't rely on gratuities. You got out of that line of work, now get over the fact that service employees are under-appreciated. Part of my job is service and I am aware some people are ignorant of what I have to put up with and that they are a big part of that. I have to remember at times it is really their problem and I don't let it be mine.

This all doesn't equate to B&M's against online very well. You can't order a steak dinner online so all restaurants have overhead. There is also limited options for most to get vape gear but even in a small town I can choose 4 places to eat in walking distance and more than I care to count in driving distance. The only place they equate is paying more in either case means the service needs to be good. Snippy attitudes because I ask a question the server doesn't like is not what I pay more for.

 

[Rocketpunk]

WORD, brother man. Preach it!!

And your screenname is awesome.

Wait, until I read your last statement. There is a difference between asking questions about the menu and obviously not having enough money to eat there and figuring out how you're going to get the most from the least and leaving little to nothing for the server..................

Your screenname is still cool, though.

 

[bebop.rocksteady]

If you can't afford to play... move along thanks.

 

[Penn]

WORD, brother man. Preach it!!

And your screenname is awesome.

Wait, until I read your last statement. There is a difference between asking questions about the menu and obviously not having enough money to eat there and figuring out how you're going to get the most from the least and leaving little to nothing for the server..................

Your screenname is still cool, though.

Have you considered someone may want to treat theirself to something nice as a fine dining experience for a special occasion but knew going in they had to go on the cheap for what that place offers? Now if that same person is coming in weekly, yes they need to accept they can't truly afford it.

 

[Rocketpunk]

B&M has overhead, yes. Everything else here, what!?

You post this in public then say take it to PM's? Not really.

You have this backwards. You are in the service industry. That means it is you that needs to bend. If you don't like people asking how much it costs, if the refills are free, or is salad dressing extra YOU need to consider a new line of work. If you can't handle delivering good service knowing you may be under tipped or stiffed, you need to get an hourly job that doesn't rely on gratuities. You got out of that line of work, now get over the fact that service employees are under-appreciated. Part of my job is service and I am aware some people are ignorant of what I have to put up with and that they are a big part of that. I have to remember at times it is really their problem and I don't let it be mine.

This all doesn't equate to B&M's against online very well. You can't order a steak dinner online so all restaurants have overhead. There is also limited options for most to get vape gear but even in a small town I can choose 4 places to eat in walking distance and more than I care to count in driving distance. The only place they equate is paying more in either case means the service needs to be good. Snippy attitudes because I ask a question the server doesn't like is not what I pay more for.

Oh my god I've heard this so many times. I also accidentally somehow misquoted bebop and rocksteady.

Have you ever been a server? In a major chain restaurant? If you're in the service ind....

Nevermind. I am ready to hurl things. I've had this argument with so many people over and over again and their arguments never change ("just get a different job"). This is the one subject that will turn me into a raging maniac and I can no longer rationally express myself. Oh, man, how and why did I bring this up?! It's my fault, and I don't mean that facetiously.

I'm shutting up now and not participating any further because this one subject (restaurants, service industry, tipping) will most likely give me a heart attack (or get me banned).

(I'm the nicest, kindest, most gentle person you'd ever meet, but the restaurant industry nearly succeeded in killing any kind of humanity I had left at one point. Thank God almighty in heaven I no longer have to "bend over" like that).

 

[rbeckys8]

our little store here thought it was great I do my own stuff, even gave me 2 coils they made to use as a reference, guess i'm lucky!!

 

[Penn]

...This is the one subject that will turn me into a raging maniac and I can no longer rationally express myself...

Enough said right there. We all have those topics.

 

[four2109]

Just checked my local's website. They are selling a 30ml unflavored 0mg base for $14.00! It doesn't say if it's PG, VG or a mix.
I just bought 500 ml of PG at the pharmacy for $11.00.
That's not the cost of doing business. That's taking advantage of the uninformed locals.

 

[McFeely]

I always see the the phrase "there's a lot of overhead with a B&M" and while that's true in some cases I've looked into starting my own business. I see a lot of mistakes these stores make.

1) You don't need a huge store. (Big store may look nicer but remember you're not selling TVs. you only need a few feet of space to display inventory)
2) Employees (expect to run the store by yourself for at least a few months)
3) Pricing (you can't beat the internet prices but you have to be able to justify a markup or people won't bother, and if you think newbies won't eventually look online for things you've already lost)

 

[Kabooma]

All stores are a service industry. I see the problem in my area clear enough- the B&M stores are few and far between. One sells crappy chinese juice at premium prices ($30 for 30ml). The other sells their own DIY juice for the same price. Neither of them can offer a juice worthy of vaping.. I'm a DIY'er, and my skills are mediocre at best, but I can follow a recipe and have several ADV's that would blow their garbage out the window.

I really don't understand the B&M attitude that it's so much more expensive than online. Online businesses still require a place of operations, and employees (if large enough), just like the B&M's. factor in shipping costs from the online places (many of which rip us off with those too!), and the prices should really be about the same. But no.. the B&M stores sell you cheap generic knockoff gear and juice for the price of name-brand, and then whine about operating costs.

Plenty of retail stores have figured out how to sell name brands at MSRP and compete with online businesses, and vaping is no different. You sell a product, and you have a market. If you fail, it's because you got greedy (not pointing this any anyone specific).

I'm reallly just venting because I would prefer to shop locally, but both the price and the products suck.

 

[k3vin]

I notice one thing about this thread.at least so far.

The people who think B&M's are too expensive I bet have never tried to run a retail business..

vaping taking off as it will when a store opens will not allow one to "RUN" it by themselves for a few months.You better have some help right off the bat or you will get into trouble fast.

In the days when I was in the tropical fish business we called people who would come in for info,but then take their business elsewhere were called,and forgive the reference."Pet store whores".

They come in for mega info,then go somewhere else to buy something a few pennies cheaper.so,you are going to take a few hours of my time to learn anything,and then leave to go somewhere else..

And is a business supposed to explain the payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, electric bill,water bill,shipping charges that businesses pay,licenses and fees for misc. items..

NO THANKS,I dont have TIME to explain these things.

Not pointing this directly at you Mcfeely,but for others who may ask the same thing.Nothing personal.

And do most people know who buy online realize that most B&M's who sell vape supplies dont usually pay much less than we do going online? Unless they buy 1000 of ONE THING...AND those people are online anyway,unless it is a huge chain.

And how many websites say that their online prices DO NOT REFLECT their in-store prices??

And many online stores just do straight drop shipping,how many exactly,I dont know.But it is done.