Being the Devil's Advocate Here : If you are vaping with Nicotine juice, you ARE still a "smoker"..

[Fulgurant]

This is actually almost hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and wondered if anyone felt the same... This next here is a 2 parter, the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant! Ok, So we are still taking in our Nic, via vape... you still get that "craving", right? So, would this fall into the "addict" category? Even it's vaping, you still crave that hit. I'm curious as to how many people actually use this as a tool to STOP all NIC absorption or do you think the higher % is it's a novel way to take a puff, than a stinky cig? My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.

I suggest you spend some time contemplating what addiction means, and why you think nicotine addiction particularly is a bad thing, per se. Here's a nice little primer: Does ANYONE have a valid definition of “addiction”? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

Likewise, I'd suggest you make an effort to learn more about vaping generally and the politics surrounding it before you jump head first into so-called devil's advocacy. Your argument in this thread is unworthy of any advocate, demonic or otherwise: "LOL, nicotine is like tobacco; therefore you're all still smoking."

No.

 

[Purplepeeps]

Toodles

 

[Bigflyrodder]

OK, so I'll call myself a nicotine inhalor. Will that solve all this?

The OP is aware that nicotine in and of itself is found in many naturally growing plants which we consume on a regular basis and actually has positive benefits a well. I'll have to search for it but I recently read an article that was discussing how nicotine in pill form is being tested for use by kids with ADHD and thus far the results are great.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned I'm just glad I'm not smoking cigs anymore. You can call me anything you like, just call me late for dinner ;-).

 

[DC2]

...the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant!

The words "smoking" and "smoker" are FAR more than just semantics.
Those are emotional, politically, and economically charged words that take you into the realm of socialized norms and stigmas.

 

[DC2]

My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.

Oh well? Meh. If you can find a valid reason to quit nicotine, let me know and I'll consider it.

Ok, now what do you tell your Doctor, or if you're going in for surgery...

I would tell them I am a nicotine user, but most certainly not a smoker.
A good doctor will immediately understand the difference.


Any doctor that didn't understand the difference would not ever be allowed to treat me.

 

[wv2win]

I get that ciggies have all those disgusting chemicals and worse in them, I do understand that. But if you are just taking all that out, but still dependent on Nicotine, you ARE still a smoker, am I wrong? And been browsing the forum, which I love by the way!! Remember: Just being devils advocate!! Anyways, been reading that you're not supposed to "inhale" the juice.

If I recall this started as a fad in China or somewhere about 10 years ago? What are the health studies done on those guys..

I just don't understand, maybe it's to make one feel better, but 2 wrongs don't make a right??? Is it that you're not "supposed" to inhale the nic, but you still absorb it through your soft tissue in your mouth, nose etc.... so, I STILL see it as smoking.

Are the true "non-smokers" vape just juice, no nic? What happens if the PG/VG ends up being even worse for vapers?

Like I said, I may look up some info later. Been up all night trying to finish my Govt paperwork, now I'm delirious!!

Just a thought, anyways

You guys ROCK by the way!!! xo

Your post was a very weak attempt at "a thought". Here is a suggestion: Before putting your "thought" in the public realm and even starting a whole new thread around it, how about actually DOING SOME RESEARCH!

I will help you out by giving you several links:

onVaping The Ultimate List of E-Cig Studies: Are E-Cigs Actually Safe? *Updated 2/16/14 » onVaping

CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

I would suggest you actually READ EACH STUDY THOROUGHLY before responding.

Your post reminded me of the old adage to: Engage brain before opening mouth.

 

[wv2win]

I suggest you spend some time contemplating what addiction means, and why you think nicotine addiction particularly is a bad thing, per se. Here's a nice little primer: Does ANYONE have a valid definition of “addiction”? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

Likewise, I'd suggest you make an effort to learn more about vaping generally and the politics surrounding it before you jump head first into so-called devil's advocacy. Your argument in this thread is unworthy of any advocate, demonic or otherwise: "LOL, nicotine is like tobacco; therefore you're all still smoking."

No.

So well stated, it deserves re-posting.

 

[wv2win]

OK, so I'll call myself a nicotine inhalor. Will that solve all this?

The OP is aware that nicotine in and of itself is found in many naturally growing plants which we consume on a regular basis and actually has positive benefits a well. I'll have to search for it but I recently read an article that was discussing how nicotine in pill form is being tested for use by kids with ADHD and thus far the results are great.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned I'm just glad I'm not smoking cigs anymore. You can call me anything you like, just call me late for dinner ;-).

Nicotine is also prescribed/recommended for those with certain mental health issues per one of my daughters who is an LMSW and counsels those with these issues.

 

[Kaiser Bob]

This is actually almost hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and wondered if anyone felt the same... This next here is a 2 parter, the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant! Ok, So we are still taking in our Nic, via vape... you still get that "craving", right? So, would this fall into the "addict" category? Even it's VAPING, you still crave that hit. I'm curious as to how many people actually use this as a tool to STOP all NIC absorption or do you think the higher % is it's a novel way to take a puff, than a stinky cig? My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.

Last question, obviously not trying to offend everyone, I'm just like you!!! Ok, now what do you tell your Doctor, or if you're going in for surgery... I know you're not supposed to "smoke" and can cause difficulties breathing while under. I've never told my Dr I smoked, I've smoked on and off for 20 years with some HUGE gaps, I used to get in the mood and want a drink and smoke, but haven't in years now, but a friend has a vape for natural things, tried that and it didn't make me feel all paranoid like normal, it was mellow. So, thought I'd do some homework, found this space and found a awesome group of people! But back to the Dr. Yeah, never told her. I don't tell all of them everything, it just goes down on your permanent record and I'm not stupid. But is worthy to tell Docs, do you? What if it's pre/post surgery and you want a vape? I'm on the fence with this!!! Would love to hear opinions. And really, guys and dolls not my intent to upset anyone, like I said I am playing "Devils Advocate" and a LOT of "what ifs".. Toodles for now, you guys rock!!! xo

My last cigarette was July 2013, and I currently vape 3-6mg nic liquid. I discovered a few months in I didn't crave nicotine like I assumed I did, it was something else in cigarettes plus a hand to mouth compulsion. I could go to 0 nic if I wanted but I prefer to intake a small amount as a supplement (cognitive benefits, Alzheimer's/Parkinson's risk reduction). Not saying there aren't others actually addicted to nicotine but it's not always the case.

 

[AndriaD]

i completely agree with everything and i knew about the slower delievery being the reason, but my gut and some experience just tells me a full flavor additive cig will hit harder than the additive free brands like winston american spirit nat sherman etc. the slower delievery is a big plus for me. i feel like less of an addict because of it.

when you look at the health and science there is a lot of meaningful differences. my issue with the guilt is i feel deceptive like im not telling the whole truth if i say "i quit/stopped smoking/dont smoke etc" because i feel like saying those things implies a big step/lots of work/will power, and everyone congrats you for the work and will power, no one truly cares if you smoke or not. i jsut dont want to steal "real" (read cold turkey/complete nic abstinent) quitter's glory.

You seem to be ascribing some kind of "moral" value to being an addict, as in "oh she's an addict, she has no morals/character/judgement/sense"... being an addict is a MEDICAL problem, not a moral problem; people with the propensity to addiction have inherited that propensity, along with the color of their eyes and their hair -- do eyecolor or hair color have a moral value? And it should be observed that just having the propensity does not equate to actually being addicted -- my son is the legacy of a very long string of alcoholics on both sides of both sides of his family, yet he is so afraid of the potential of too much drinking, that he barely drinks at all -- one beer, with 2 oz left in it, and he's ready to go back to soda. It really bugs me in the modern age to see such antiquated thinking as to assign some kind of moral value to addiction.

As for having to struggle to become smoke-free... I have struggled many times to accomplish that, and failed every time, until I tried e-cigs. E-cigs do not magically make cigarettes vanish; you have to commit to the whole process, and you have to stand by that commitment to not smoke. It's harder for some, easier for others; I found the first week amazingly easy, but when the euphoria wore off, the cravings set in. Yes I'm replacing the nicotine, but all the behaviors? What do I do with those? I've had to find alternatives for a great many behaviors, now that I'm no longer smoking, and I'm not going to apologize to ANYONE for e-cigs making the whole transition easier. It's much easier than cold turkey, pills, patches, and etc, but that IN NO WAY negates the accomplishment of having QUIT SMOKING. You seem to feel guilty about it, and that is just plain weird. Guilty, for not suffering? Are you a puritan? A flagellant? A masochist?

Andria

 

[Botomline]

This simple fact is that I refer to myself as smoke and tobacco free and I'm correct on both counts, same as if I used a patch or gum. But good luck with this.

 

[Nermal]

2 wrongs don't make a right? It's no more "wrong" to inhale nicotine by vaping than to ingest caffeine by drinking coffee.

No wonder I was getting those creepy looks when I spit out my coffee.

 

[cbrite]

I found all of this back and forth pretty interesting. After I had been vaping for a month, I told everyone I'd quit smoking. A few weeks later had lunch with a few women friends (they stopped smoking years ago and went through the cold turkey thing) and I was loving my juices and wanted to share the fun of vaping. I wasn't encouraging them to take it up, just saying how much I was enjoying myself. They all put on "prune faces" and said--so you didn't REALLY stop smoking. Hmmmm....well, yes, I did. My body says I did, my mind says I did. I can walk half a mile or a mile without stopping every 3 minutes because I am out of breath. I don't cough. No post-nasal drip. Clear sinuses. Yep, I quit smoking. But for my "prune-faced" friends, I am still a smoker. Hey...I stopped cold turkey more than once, so I paid my dues on that score. This time around two things" (1) I know I will never, every smoke a cigarette again and (2) I am not miserable and mean...I am happy and enjoying myself. I am a vaper, not a smoker!!

 

[vjc0628]

This is actually almost hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and wondered if anyone felt the same... This next here is a 2 parter, the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant! Ok, So we are still taking in our Nic, via vape... you still get that "craving", right? So, would this fall into the "addict" category? Even it's VAPING, you still crave that hit. I'm curious as to how many people actually use this as a tool to STOP all NIC absorption or do you think the higher % is it's a novel way to take a puff, than a stinky cig? My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.

Last question, obviously not trying to offend everyone, I'm just like you!!! Ok, now what do you tell your Doctor, or if you're going in for surgery... I know you're not supposed to "smoke" and can cause difficulties breathing while under. I've never told my Dr I smoked, I've smoked on and off for 20 years with some HUGE gaps, I used to get in the mood and want a drink and smoke, but haven't in years now, but a friend has a vape for natural things, tried that and it didn't make me feel all paranoid like normal, it was mellow. So, thought I'd do some homework, found this space and found a awesome group of people! But back to the Dr. Yeah, never told her. I don't tell all of them everything, it just goes down on your permanent record and I'm not stupid. But is worthy to tell Docs, do you? What if it's pre/post surgery and you want a vape? I'm on the fence with this!!! Would love to hear opinions. And really, guys and dolls not my intent to upset anyone, like I said I am playing "Devils Advocate" and a LOT of "what ifs".. Toodles for now, you guys rock!!! xo

As far as smoking its not it does not contain the same dangers we all know this
one who decides he will vape and not smoke at the same nic level for the rest of his life
will be much better off then smoking
we all know this

As far as the addiction I can say a few things
did I quit smoking ? Only as much as if I quit and used the gum and still used it
I still went through withdrawal when I made the switch (not as bad as cold turkey)

does it help quit for good ? yes it can
I started at 18 mg when down to 12 mg
and now I have a rotation of 9mg 8 mg 6 mg and 5mg

I know from going down I am still addicted more then with coffee but not as much as smoking
but being able to control the nic level helps a lot

I believe any one can give up nic using eciggs and that I will eventually as well

I know this works because I have used the patch, Gum the chantex multiple times
none worked

I've gone months (up to 6 months 2x) but never saw the light at the end of the tunnel
always feeling the need to smoke and pushing through with will power till I would finally give up

but with eciggs the transition only lasted a month
and as I drop I feel it some but its not bad like with other methods

And as far as surgery I would say I don't smoke but use ecigg
only because some surgeries need you to be nic free

 

[edyle]

I get that ciggies have all those disgusting chemicals and worse in them, I do understand that. But if you are just taking all that out, but still dependent on Nicotine, you ARE still a smoker, am I wrong? And been browsing the forum, which I love by the way!! Remember: Just being devils advocate!! Anyways, been reading that you're not supposed to "inhale" the juice.

If I recall this started as a fad in China or somewhere about 10 years ago? What are the health studies done on those guys..

I just don't understand, maybe it's to make one feel better, but 2 wrongs don't make a right??? Is it that you're not "supposed" to inhale the nic, but you still absorb it through your soft tissue in your mouth, nose etc.... so, I STILL see it as smoking.

Are the true "non-smokers" vape just juice, no nic? What happens if the PG/VG ends up being even worse for vapers?

Like I said, I may look up some info later. Been up all night trying to finish my Govt paperwork, now I'm delirious!!

Just a thought, anyways

You guys ROCK by the way!!! xo

So your definition of "smoking" depends on nicotine content?

So somebody smoking xxxxsomething elsexxxx isn't smoking according to your definition?

 

[thanswr]

I'm pondering the whole point of this post while happily inhaling some tasty vape

I'm with you. Btw, contrary to what the original poster said, ecigarettes were invented in 1963.

http://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/a...w-inventor-e-cigarette-herbert-a-gilbert.html

Imagine how many hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved if someone had taken ecigarettes seriously THEN.

 

[edyle]

This is actually almost hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and wondered if anyone felt the same... This next here is a 2 parter, the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant! Ok, So we are still taking in our Nic, via vape... you still get that "craving", right? So, would this fall into the "addict" category? Even it's VAPING, you still crave that hit. I'm curious as to how many people actually use this as a tool to STOP all NIC absorption or do you think the higher % is it's a novel way to take a puff, than a stinky cig? My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.

Last question, obviously not trying to offend everyone, I'm just like you!!! Ok, now what do you tell your Doctor, or if you're going in for surgery... I know you're not supposed to "smoke" and can cause difficulties breathing while under. I've never told my Dr I smoked, I've smoked on and off for 20 years with some HUGE gaps, I used to get in the mood and want a drink and smoke, but haven't in years now, but a friend has a vape for natural things, tried that and it didn't make me feel all paranoid like normal, it was mellow. So, thought I'd do some homework, found this space and found a awesome group of people! But back to the Dr. Yeah, never told her. I don't tell all of them everything, it just goes down on your permanent record and I'm not stupid. But is worthy to tell Docs, do you? What if it's pre/post surgery and you want a vape? I'm on the fence with this!!! Would love to hear opinions. And really, guys and dolls not my intent to upset anyone, like I said I am playing "Devils Advocate" and a LOT of "what ifs".. Toodles for now, you guys rock!!! xo

What do you tell the Doctor or if you're going in for surgery?
Same as if you use the nicotine patch or gum.
You say "I use nicotine patches/gum/ecigs".

A couple months ago, I was at a seminar (a Safety seminar btw), and the presenter asked the question, are there any smokers here?
Well one guy indicated so, and after a moment I put my hand up too;
then the presenter asked the first guy a question (I forget what), then he turned to me and asked the same question;
And I said, well I switched to ecigs.
So then he turned back to the first guy and continued a couple followup with him because the point he was dealing with had nothing to do with my case.

 

[Little White Cloud]

Well,... you went and said the A word. What does Addiction really mean? What is Addicted? I like to eat a taco sometimes. Am I Addicted? To me the term is useless as it is impossible to quantify, is subjective and generally used as a factual term, and therefore what it implies is false because in the now, it does not actually exist. Take a similar word "perfect" is anything actually perfect? No

The A word is a label that serves no good purpose so I avoid it at all costs.

 

[WattWick]

I am not addicted to, or smoke cigarettes. I do however enjoy nicotine.

Despite popular belief, the effects of inhaling smoke from burning tobacco is not the same as the effects of nicotine by itself. It's like drinking from a murky cesspool full of bacteria and parasites and concluding that water is bad for you.

 

[Mutescream]

I'm a vapor and NOT a smoker!

I thought we are "vapers" that exhale "vapor"?