Being the Devil's Advocate Here : If you are vaping with Nicotine juice, you ARE still a "smoker"..
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Your logic is flawed. What about people who use nicotine gum, or patches? Are they smokers also based on their dependence on nicotine? Smoking is exclusive to... well smoking. There is no combustion with vaporizers. No combustion = no smoke.
LOL. you're kiddin' right? health studies from China? you may as well just ask them to stop putting lead in everything because neither is gonna happen.
Not exactly sure where the OP is going or what point they are trying to make - or rebut.
Smoking produces smoke. It's the tar created in the process that screws up your lungs. Along with all the cancerous compounds. vaping... doesn't do that and doesn't produce that. So there actually is a point to not smoking and replacing it with vaping.
Smoking produces smoke. It's the tar created in the process that screws up your lungs. Along with all the cancerous compounds. vaping... doesn't do that and doesn't produce that. So there actually is a point to not smoking and replacing it with vaping.
i completely agree with everything and i knew about the slower delievery being the reason, but my gut and some experience just tells me a full flavor additive cig will hit harder than the additive free brands like winston american spirit nat sherman etc. the slower delievery is a big plus for me. i feel like less of an addict because of it.
when you look at the health and science there is a lot of meaningful differences. my issue with the guilt is i feel deceptive like im not telling the whole truth if i say "i quit/stopped smoking/dont smoke etc" because i feel like saying those things implies a big step/lots of work/will power, and everyone congrats you for the work and will power, no one truly cares if you smoke or not. i jsut dont want to steal "real" (read cold turkey/complete nic abstinent) quitter's glory.
i couldn't figure out how to quote 2 posts but about the coffee posts, i know soda gets a free pass because its impractical and living caffeine free has limited benefits. i can say however ive gone a few months caf free before and its noticeable for better and for worse. but my question back is,
if you traded coffee for energy drinks would you still be a caffeine junky? id say yes. and i also believe its a better comparison than soda.
different coffees and energy drinks all have different caffeine levels from high to zero just like cigarettes and e juice. it all depends on how much you use and what your using it for.
i think we'd all agree coffee could be used for the flavor as in decaf, or for caffeine delievery, as in gas station expresso, just like zero nic juice for flavor or high strength for cravings/quitting analogs.
There's no tobacco in my e-cigarette. No ignition=no smoke
Therefore, I am not a smoker and do not wish to be treated as such.
Therefore, I am not a smoker and do not wish to be treated as such.
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I get that ciggies have all those disgusting chemicals and worse in them, I do understand that. But if you are just taking all that out, but still dependent on Nicotine, you ARE still a smoker, am I wrong? And been browsing the forum, which I love by the way!! Remember: Just being devils advocate!! Anyways, been reading that you're not supposed to "inhale" the juice.
If I recall this started as a fad in China or somewhere about 10 years ago? What are the health studies done on those guys..
I just don't understand, maybe it's to make one feel better, but 2 wrongs don't make a right??? Is it that you're not "supposed" to inhale the nic, but you still absorb it through your soft tissue in your mouth, nose etc.... so, I STILL see it as smoking.
Are the true "non-smokers" vape just juice, no nic? What happens if the PG/VG ends up being even worse for vapers?
Like I said, I may look up some info later. Been up all night trying to finish my Govt paperwork, now I'm delirious!!
Just a thought, anyways
You guys ROCK by the way!!! xo
What happens if it is far better? So far people are feeling much better breathing and blood work with better blood pressure etc. This is all a good sign IMO.
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The ecig that we know today was not created as a fad in China. You can read about Hon Lik here: http://www.ihl-hockey.com/history-of-the-electronic-cigarette/
In 1963 Herbert Gilbert took out the first patent of an electronic cigarette.
Between these fine men, we are able to stop smoking with these devices.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and my choice is to consider myself a non-smoker.
Let's try to keep this thread civil and remember to only attack the post not the poster.
In 1963 Herbert Gilbert took out the first patent of an electronic cigarette.
Between these fine men, we are able to stop smoking with these devices.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and my choice is to consider myself a non-smoker.
Let's try to keep this thread civil and remember to only attack the post not the poster.
I'm gonna take a big leap here and say it's called.....chewing.
Hehehe I will definitely be coming back to this thread when I get home from work. Curious to see where this thread goes.
Just kidding, I know exactly where this is going to go
disclaimer: i like everyones input and opinions, i value these forums as a place to share ideas. i do not post to put people down or dis-credit people. i enjoy a healthy discussion even if i dont agree with every point! i like when people bring up a point i hadn't considered, or expose a weakness in my logic. if a point made me think, it did its job! i think we can all agree vaping is our way. i dont think this was started to stir the pot nessesarily, just to start a discussion. i had similar feelings and this thread was a place for me to share. if you cant contribute to the discussion, move on, there's plenty more!
It's called trying to quit smoking
(devils advocate again)did i quit for 2 weeks before i went back to smoking, or was i a smoker trying to quit the whole time?
again i see a lot of semantics here.
i stopped trying to define things with a dictionary and label everyone and everything. life is subjective. labels are stupid.
if you stop hiding behind semantics and go with your true feelings you will be happier, i promise.
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You can call it what you prefer, but by definition its not smoke. I am a caffeine and nicotine user. I prefer caffeine and nic over de-cafe and de-nic
As far as China goes well most wear masks due to air pollution so I doubt vaping is a big concern to the average citizen atm.
As far as China goes well most wear masks due to air pollution so I doubt vaping is a big concern to the average citizen atm.
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I consider nicotine to be a supplement, like echinacea, or caffeine, or ginkgo biloba.
Nicotine improves my memory, attention, and concentration.
It also may help prevent Alzeimers, and I'm all for that!
I happen to be taking this supplement in vapor form.
That allows me to keep the various habits and rituals I loved so much about smoking.
When I smoked I used to be very addicted to the calming habits and rituals, and to a lesser extent the cocktail of whole tobacco alkaloids.
Now I am no longer addicted to nicotine in any way, and of course I no longer even use any of the other tobacco alkaloids.
But I am still addicted to my new various habits and rituals to some extent, especially when I'm drinking.
Although even my addiction to those things is slowly falling away, except of course when I'm drinking.
Regardless, I'll keep taking my nicotine supplements (and I'll keep taking them in vapor form) until such time as I have reason not to.
But more and more often now I have to remind myself to do so sometimes.
Nicotine improves my memory, attention, and concentration.
It also may help prevent Alzeimers, and I'm all for that!
I happen to be taking this supplement in vapor form.
That allows me to keep the various habits and rituals I loved so much about smoking.
When I smoked I used to be very addicted to the calming habits and rituals, and to a lesser extent the cocktail of whole tobacco alkaloids.
Now I am no longer addicted to nicotine in any way, and of course I no longer even use any of the other tobacco alkaloids.
But I am still addicted to my new various habits and rituals to some extent, especially when I'm drinking.
Although even my addiction to those things is slowly falling away, except of course when I'm drinking.
Regardless, I'll keep taking my nicotine supplements (and I'll keep taking them in vapor form) until such time as I have reason not to.
But more and more often now I have to remind myself to do so sometimes.
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i agree with the last two posts.
it is a very fine line between the terms "supplement" vs "drug" and "user" vs "addict".
its very subjective. some can be users with no problem, while others become addicts.
a "supplement" can easily become a drug.
you may call someone using substance A a "user" but if they use substance B you call them an "addict" or bob is a "y" user but tom is a "y" addict. it would be based on your personal subjectivity drawn upon your life experience what judgement you used which will differ person to person. no one is wrong.
for example i think of caffeine a drug along with everything else that is not food/water that we ingest.
however i do not consider myself a caffeine addict. i have never thought to myself, "man i could really use some caffeine right now." but i do consume it now and again so i think of myself a user. but, those self confessed coffee addicts that cant function without a cup of coffee i think of as an addict. but because i believe anything that's not food is a drug that also means i don't think all drugs are bad or carry a stigma, i could care less whether people think i'm a user or an addict of ANY substance i choose to consume, however i choose to consume it.
it is a very fine line between the terms "supplement" vs "drug" and "user" vs "addict".
its very subjective. some can be users with no problem, while others become addicts.
a "supplement" can easily become a drug.
you may call someone using substance A a "user" but if they use substance B you call them an "addict" or bob is a "y" user but tom is a "y" addict. it would be based on your personal subjectivity drawn upon your life experience what judgement you used which will differ person to person. no one is wrong.
for example i think of caffeine a drug along with everything else that is not food/water that we ingest.
however i do not consider myself a caffeine addict. i have never thought to myself, "man i could really use some caffeine right now." but i do consume it now and again so i think of myself a user. but, those self confessed coffee addicts that cant function without a cup of coffee i think of as an addict. but because i believe anything that's not food is a drug that also means i don't think all drugs are bad or carry a stigma, i could care less whether people think i'm a user or an addict of ANY substance i choose to consume, however i choose to consume it.
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I get that ciggies have all those disgusting chemicals and worse in them, I do understand that. But if you are just taking all that out, but still dependent on Nicotine, you ARE still a smoker, am I wrong? And been browsing the forum, which I love by the way!! Remember: Just being devils advocate!! Anyways, been reading that you're not supposed to "inhale" the juice.
If I recall this started as a fad in China or somewhere about 10 years ago? What are the health studies done on those guys..
I just don't understand, maybe it's to make one feel better, but 2 wrongs don't make a right??? Is it that you're not "supposed" to inhale the nic, but you still absorb it through your soft tissue in your mouth, nose etc.... so, I STILL see it as smoking.
Are the true "non-smokers" vape just juice, no nic? What happens if the PG/VG ends up being even worse for vapers?
Like I said, I may look up some info later. Been up all night trying to finish my Govt paperwork, now I'm delirious!!
Just a thought, anyways
You guys ROCK by the way!!! xo
I must disagree. If I drank way too much beer, alchool would be the health concern, not the malt contained in it. If I then switched to NA-beer exclusively, I would be still enjoying the company of friends at a bar, and a nice, refreshing beverage that mimics 'real' beer, but without the main health concern. Also, it would not make sense to be called an alchoolic, just because I would then drink way too much of an alchool-FREE beverage.
On the other hand, people who have been using the patch or gum for years in a row, are not considered smokers. A CO test, or even a chest X-ray, will make a doctor think that that person does not smoke - wich is actually true.
And no, I do not consider myself a smoker anymore. A true smoker, when given the choice of vaping or smoking will choose his cigarettes. If for some reason he finds himself without cigarettes for a day, he MIGHT try a spare kit from his vaping friend. It will not 'feel the same', but he misses the 'hand-to-mouth' and the throat hit, and, being that or nothing, he may endure vaping for a day. But, as soon as he gets his hands on a pack of cigarettes, he will resume smoking.
I am a vaper: given the choice, I will ALWAYS choose vaping, because smoke does not pleasure me anymore. If for some reason I find myself without vaping supplies for one day, I *might* bum a cigarette from a friend. It will surelly not 'feel the same', but, being that or nothing, maybe I'll miss the 'hand-to-mouth' and the throat hit enough to endure smoking for a day. And I'm positively sure that as soon as I get my hands on my vaping gear again, those remaining cigarettes I *might* have borrowed will be promply returned.
I switched five years ago to a smoke-LESS alternative to smoking, so it makes no sense to consider myself a smoker. Just like someone who drinks boat-loads of NA-beer will not consider himself an 'heavy drinker'. Even if on occasion, when his NA-beer is NOT available, he drinks boat-loads of the real thing. It was NOT his choice, but rather a backup plan.
I ran a cotton wicked dripper dry once and it tasted burnt and smoky. Does that count?
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This is actually almost hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate and wondered if anyone felt the same... This next here is a 2 parter, the word "smoking" is semantics, you guys know what I meant!
Ok, So we are still taking in our Nic, via vape... you still get that "craving", right? So, would this fall into the "addict" category? Even it's VAPING, you still crave that hit. I'm curious as to how many people actually use this as a tool to STOP all NIC absorption or do you think the higher % is it's a novel way to take a puff, than a stinky cig? My Husbands Best Friend announced (for the 100th time) He has quit smoking, my Hubs told him how he can wean himself off ciggys by vaping and lowering the NIC until he's at 0, but he's against it. Oh well tried.Last question, obviously not trying to offend everyone, I'm just like you!!! Ok, now what do you tell your Doctor, or if you're going in for surgery... I know you're not supposed to "smoke" and can cause difficulties breathing while under. I've never told my Dr I smoked, I've smoked on and off for 20 years with some HUGE gaps, I used to get in the mood and want a drink and smoke, but haven't in years now, but a friend has a vape for natural things, tried that and it didn't make me feel all paranoid like normal, it was mellow. So, thought I'd do some homework, found this space and found a awesome group of people! But back to the Dr. Yeah, never told her. I don't tell all of them everything, it just goes down on your permanent record and I'm not stupid. But is worthy to tell Docs, do you? What if it's pre/post surgery and you want a vape? I'm on the fence with this!!! Would love to hear opinions. And really, guys and dolls not my intent to upset anyone, like I said I am playing "Devils Advocate" and a LOT of "what ifs".. Toodles for now, you guys rock!!! xo
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