Big Tobacco companies making its move in the E-cig industry.

[gthompson]

I'm not going to sift through every thread in that forum. So far all I've seen is proof that BT is in support of age verification systems. The guy from madvapes says he will be fine. Where specifically have you seen something that indicates BT is trying to shut down all internet sales. Note- I'm not saying they aren't, I just haven't seen anything to indicate they are, other than people here claiming it (so this isn't just directed at you gt).

I'm not going to sift through them all either but here's a couple I found right off

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-tax-require-license-sell-vapor-products.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ion-all-internet-vapor-product-marketers.html

 

[Penn]

I'm not going to sift through them all either but here's a couple I found right off

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-tax-require-license-sell-vapor-products.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ion-all-internet-vapor-product-marketers.html

I already read link 2, which is where I got that at least 1 NC based company says they will be fine. Again, just age verification systems.

Link 1? haven't finished it yet but the only way that would ban internet sales is if the license isn't available to online retailers.

 

[gthompson]

I already read link 2, which is where I got that at least 1 NC based company says they will be fine. Again, just age verification systems.

Link 1? haven't finished it yet but the only way that would ban internet sales is if the license isn't available to online retailers.

BT is just getting started, getting into e-cigs, AND getting rid of the competition. Expect to see a lot more of this in the future.

 

[Penn]

BT is just getting started, getting into e-cigs, AND getting rid of the competition. Expect to see a lot more of this in the future.

Again, what have we seen to be sure they are trying to eliminate competition? So far it appears they have only been directly involved in age verification requirements. I still haven't seen their names attached to taxation of the product, which the first of you links seems to hit on.

 

[gthompson]

Well then, it's just my opinion (shared by many here). I'm not really looking to argue about it.

 

[Penn]

Well then, it's just my opinion (shared by many here). I'm not really looking to argue about it.

Okay. I don't trust BT either. I just want hard information that they are behind some of what they are accused of. Not trying to argue but I like facts to back up my own opinions.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Again, what have we seen to be sure they are trying to eliminate competition? So far it appears they have only been directly involved in age verification requirements. I still haven't seen their names attached to taxation of the product, which the first of you links seems to hit on.

Here's a link where taxation and a ban on internet sales was proposed. Although defeated but we all know what's coming...regulation+ taxation.

"If enacted, this bill would have:

Redefined "tobacco product" in Utah's tobacco tax code to include e-cigarettes and e-cigarette cartridges. As a result, e-cigarettes would be taxed at 86% manufacturer's price. (Section 1)
Banned sales through the mail and Internet of nicotine-containing products by requiring face-to-face transactions. There would have been no way, including age verification at the time of ordering or shipment, for legal Internet sales to take place in Utah. (Section 7)
Disallowed sampling in e-cigarette stores by prohibiting vendors from giving away products to customers of legal age."
CASAA: Utah Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and Ban Online Sales -- HB372 (DEFEATED)

 

[tj99959]

Ya we defeated it here in Utah ......... this time, but I'm sure it will come up again next year. Just in a slightly different form.

What we are seeing right now from BT is "posturing" in anticipation of deeming regulations by the FDA.

 

[Penn]

Here's a link where taxation and a ban on internet sales was proposed. Although defeated but we all know what's coming...regulation+ taxation.

"If enacted, this bill would have:

Redefined "tobacco product" in Utah's tobacco tax code to include e-cigarettes and e-cigarette cartridges. As a result, e-cigarettes would be taxed at 86% manufacturer's price. (Section 1)
Banned sales through the mail and Internet of nicotine-containing products by requiring face-to-face transactions. There would have been no way, including age verification at the time of ordering or shipment, for legal Internet sales to take place in Utah. (Section 7)
Disallowed sampling in e-cigarette stores by prohibiting vendors from giving away products to customers of legal age."
CASAA: Utah Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes and Ban Online Sales -- HB372 (DEFEATED)

Was big tobacco behind that bill? I am aware people exist that want to make our lives more difficult. What I specifically want to know is how much big tobacco is behind it.

 

[TyPie]

To think that 3 months ago I had NO IDEA whatsoever about the larger e-cig industry beyond Blu-cigs and a couple other disposables I heard about or saw in passing at whatever convenience store I may have passed through, compared to what I know NOW from the ECF, my own research and reading (and, OMG.... shopping!!.....lol....), is simply mind-boggling. This industry reminds me very much of the early days of the computer industry. Very interesting time in vape world, imo.

It seems also that, if you are a happy vaper, one should be well-prepared to get very vocal about your opinions, wants and needs as it applies to both equipmemt (hardware) and juices (software). If the early days of the computer / PC industry is any guide, there are going to be some big 'plays' by big players in this industry, both in the hardware and software sides (which includes the regulatory end of things, awaiting various pronouncements by the FDA, the medical community, health organizations, etc.).

Lumping ecigs and vaping in with smoking, drugs, and other such nasties appears to be the tendency, if not the rule of governing bodies at the moment, which feels very WRONG to me.
I would say, read a lot, do your homework, follow the research, and follow proposed legislation as closely as you can, and generally stay informed so that your voice can be heard. Things are happening so quickly that I think the time that your voice should be heard is NOW.

 

[SilverCloud]

I have recently read that two BT companies are moving forward and seem to be trying to cash in on the E-cig phenomenon.

Reynold American Inc.
Camel maker plans big e-cigarette push - CBS News
Reynolds believes its updated electronic cigarette "delivers on what smokers want," by addressing those concerns, Cordisco said.

Phillip Morris Camel and Marlbaro maker.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57581401/marlboro-maker-altria-to-jump-into-e-cigarettes/

I believe that the e-juice made by the BT companies will not only use the original 4 ingredients such as Propylene Glycol (PG), Vegetable Glycerin (VG), Food flavoring, and Nicotine diluted in VG or PG based but add to it and not inform the consumer what has been added. I don't believe that they will use the same ingrediants that the avg joe can mix in his house. Solely for profit gains its exclusive power. The e-juice today with just the four ingredients yet fairly new has had flying color positive studies/reviews on the cellular level and the increasing rate of quitting traditional cigarettes to where the FDA and other private study groups have had to create questioners/call centers to report any e-cigarette adverse affects.

What are your opinions on this and will you buy BT e-juice?

Simple answer; HELL NO, HELL NO, HELL F-NG NO. I myself will not buy anything BT produces...period. They poisoned me for 20+ years, hiding the additives and chemicals in their cancerous product. So...why would their e-cig products be any different now, based on their prior track record? Their goal is NOT to help people quit smoking, but rather recover lost profits they've been experiencing due to e-cigs....and monopolize the market. <<<<< (stepping down from soap box)

Brian

 

[TyPie]

I already read link 2, which is where I got that at least 1 NC based company says they will be fine. Again, just age verification systems.

Link 1? haven't finished it yet but the only way that would ban internet sales is if the license isn't available to online retailers.

From your posts, I get the impression that you might think that BT is just going to announce their clear intentions in a press relaease or something?? I'm afraid that NO business or industry really works that way......it's called 'competition', where certain things are kept secret, no??

 

[Penn]

From your posts, I get the impression that you might think that BT is just going to announce their clear intentions in a press relaease or something?? I'm afraid that NO business or industry really works that way......it's called 'competition', where certain things are kept secret, no??

The only way BT is going to eliminate the resources we currently have is through backing legislation that would inhibit online sales or place restrictions on devices. When lobbyists are behind something, it usually becomes public knowledge.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

We can win this war by funding research that proves that vaping is a nicotine replacement device for smoking cessation. Everyone loves that, backs that and it's pc. Fighting via the nicotine is not harmful argument, in spite of the fact that nicotine is part of our food chain (broccoli, cruciferous vegetables, spinach, etc.) may be a loser, as nicotine is toxic and leads to "must be carefully regulated." As long as nicotine can be sold online, we'll be fine, but that is where the war cannot be lost from our point of view. Who cares if BT gets into vaping as long as I can buy the products I like from the vendors I support. People rag on China, but eventually, their lower prices will bring prices down here. That's how free market economies work. Again, as long as we don't lose the online nicotine program, we'll be fine imho.

 

[shatner]

Here's what the vendors should do. This is how they do it in Australia

Make nic free juice, double flavor. Add your own nic to your mg level. Easy peasy. Internet vendors aren't going anywhere.

Now the question still remains if nic will be banned for the layman. But it WILL be on the blackmarket. Mark my words. I have no trouble purchasing from the black market or The Silk Road online. I already give money to the black market of for another product that shouldn't be illegal, so it's no big deal to me.

 

[Caridwen]

BT is just getting started, getting into e-cigs, AND getting rid of the competition. Expect to see a lot more of this in the future.

I agree.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Was big tobacco behind that bill? I am aware people exist that want to make our lives more difficult. What I specifically want to know is how much big tobacco is behind it.

BT Lobbying groups are among the most powerfully connected and experienced in the world. Do you really think Lorillard paid 135 mill for Blu without making a few calls or at least knowing the future of the Ecig in regards to regulation? Immediately after the Blu takeover the CEO stated, when asked, "we have been in ongoing discussions with the authorities". If a small company such as Blu has been talking to the powers that be I can absolutely guarantee BT has also been speaking with the authorities albeit on a much higher level.

Simply put it's all about profits...
"Although the acquisition of Blu eCigs was announced in the Spring of 2012, the Lorillard electronic cigarette segment only came into operation in the last quarter of the year. The recently revealed figures show Blu has contributed $39 million to the tobacco company’s total net sales, registering almost three times the sales of the previous quarter."
and Lollard will do whatever it has to do to gain mkt share and increase profits regardless of the impact it has on the vaping community. Make it near impossible for mom and pop shops to operate under newer strict guidelines and limit the types of devices and juice/ juice delivery systems that we can use. I suspect Lorillard's next move will be in buying a juice manufacturer or just starting to make their own. They certainly have the Political and FDA connections and Labs to do it very easily.

 

[Pfffmayne]

i want no part of BT in my life ever again

 

[Nocam]

gonna start stock piling some juice soon

 

[Penn]

BT Lobbying groups are among the most powerfully connected and experienced in the world. Do you really think Lorillard paid 135 mill for Blu without making a few calls or at least knowing the future of the Ecig in regards to regulation? Immediately after the Blu takeover the CEO stated, when asked, "we have been in ongoing discussions with the authorities". If a small company such as Blu has been talking to the powers that be I can absolutely guarantee BT has also been speaking with the authorities albeit on a much higher level.

Simply put it's all about profits...
"Although the acquisition of Blu eCigs was announced in the Spring of 2012, the Lorillard electronic cigarette segment only came into operation in the last quarter of the year. The recently revealed figures show Blu has contributed $39 million to the tobacco company’s total net sales, registering almost three times the sales of the previous quarter."
and Lollard will do whatever it has to do to gain mkt share and increase profits regardless of the impact it has on the vaping community. Make it near impossible for mom and pop shops to operate under newer strict guidelines and limit the types of devices and juice/ juice delivery systems that we can use. I suspect Lorillard's next move will be in buying a juice manufacturer or just starting to make their own. They certainly have the Political and FDA connections and Labs to do it very easily.

Here's what some are not getting in my posts. If the big 3 successfully gain dominance over electronic cigarettes by offering a product that people prefer, that's just capitalism and as much as I don't like them accomplishing their goal I won't complain if they do it that way.

What I won't just sit back and watch is them accomplishing it through legislation and regulation. BUT I am not going to fall into paranoia based on the fact that I suspect they would do it without some type of hard facts to back up my suspicion.

I am aware they were involved when the initial banning push occurred back when ecigs first started. By entering the game, it is obvious they are not on that path anymore. Your very own point of "Do you really think Lorillard paid 135 mill for Blu without making a few calls or at least knowing the future of the Ecig in regards to regulation?" could actually be something beneficial to the market. If the industry has the backing of their money to keep it legal and low regulations it could help both them and smaller shops. However, I am not blind enough to deny, the bigger companies are the ones that would survive over-regulation.

An example of what I am looking for - RJR was behind legislation to help restrict sales to minors and it was known. I have no problem with that. But have they directly or through lobbyist backed heavy regulation attempts? And yes, that would be known by those actively fighting the battle.