Boycot Starbucks

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sidetrack

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Bottom line here to me is we don't know what the effects of second hand vape are. I am a nic free vaper and am not sure what the VG and flavors I use are doing to me. Yes I feel better but who really knows. I personally don't believe it is my right to expose someone to my unknown. It really urks me when I hear someone say it's just water vapor...really, I am not that naive. Can you smell the vapor(?) then its not just water vapor is it and who knows what else it is as we have very few studies. I believe vapeing is reduced but not risk "free" to me or bystanders. JMHO
 

Maestro

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I agree that we don't know the long term effects of vaping, but we do know it's harmless to others. There might be small percentage that's hyper allergic to PG or something, but that goes for just about anything. As far as I know, even the FDA, Health Canada and the WHO have not gone so far as to claim it's a risk to others.
 

newq

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I agree that we don't know the long term effects of vaping, but we do know it's harmless to others. There might be small percentage that's hyper allergic to PG or something, but that goes for just about anything. As far as I know, even the FDA, Health Canada and the WHO have not gone so far as to claim it's a risk to others.

I'm sorry but I am going to disagree with you here.

If you read all the medical literature floating aorund about vaping, they will tell that the problem is that while vaping the USER does not truely know what they are consuming in the way of Nicotine. THey also say that in vaping we dont absorb as much of the nicotine as a normal smoke and that a portion of it is exhaled with our vape clouds.

Normal logic tells me that is we are not recieving the dosage that we are expecting and that some of that is expelled in our vape you would have to be in dnial about what happens to the rest of the nocitine in our vapor to not realize what happened to the rest.

I know it has been said that the nicotine disperses through the air and the concentration becomes to miniscule to be considered dangerous but really? Do you think you should be so privileged as to intrude and force someone to breath nicotine which is not essential for life no matter how small so you dont have to walk your lazy butts outside?

I wouldnt allow someone to smoke crack around me. Why should someone else be expected to tolerate my vape. Get over yourselves. This world doesnt revolve around you.
 

gumchewer

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I didn't say there was no nicotine in the vapor. I said it was harmless. I also exhale carbon dioxide at the same time. It causes asphyxiation in large amounts but harmless in the amount I exhale. I'm over myself now.


No, that don't work either. I am on the same side, but peanuts ate harmless to me. Some can die from one.
 

sailorman

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Sailorman none of the things you "compare" to vaping smells either hangs around in the air or fly to peoples area lol vaping or smocking bother some people and unless you are in home or outdoor theres nothing you can do....


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Vapor doesn't "hang around in the air". It doesn't "fly to people's area" unless you deliberately send it there and that's not even easy in a decently ventilated area. Smoking bothers some people, no question. The only people vaping bothers is the people who can't stand the sight of someone with something that looks like smoke coming from their mouths. If someone tells you that it bothers them, and they are more than 4' away from you, and you aren't blowing it in their face, they're lying. They're one of those people who just can't stand to see someone look like they're smoking, so they come up with a lie to rationalize it. If they say they don't like the smell, that's their problem. But offer to change juice to something they do like. They won't know what to say to that because they're liars.
 

sailorman

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Keep the mentality that you are entitled to vape where you please and it will soon be accepted nowhere because it's not a right but a privilege.

BS!! Is it a privilege for a woman to douse herself with perfume? Is it a privilege for someone to chew gum? I'd rather have an "entitlement mentality" than a cowardly, craven, spineless mentality. Anything that doesn't harm another person is a right, not a privilege, unless it's illegal. What sucks more than an entitlement mentality is the mentality that says you have a right to prohibit anything that offends your delicate sensibilities. People who think everything is a privilege have the mentalities of slaves.
 

sailorman

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Lol is not about being treated like a smoker (shame you fell bad about it) is tha fact that if i own a bussines and your vaping inside and i dont like it i can just tell you to stop it or .... , simple.


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And I guess if I don't like people with big hair, or tatoos, or people with skinny ties and wingtip shoes, or people who speak with an accent, I should just those people to ..... None of those are rights. They're all privileges. And those people would be fully justified in calling for a boycott.

Please get familiar with the difference between your house and a public accommodation.
 

sailorman

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No, that don't work either. I am on the same side, but peanuts ate harmless to me. Some can die from one.
So, you should go around insisting that nobody eat peanuts if you've got an allergy?

In INHALED vapor there is 0.01% nicotine per puff. Exhaled vapor is obviously much lower in nicotine content. It is impossible to pack enough vapers in any room with even minimal ventilation and have them generate enough nicotine to harm someone in the room with them.

Birds are sponges for airborne toxins. Two years of living within 8' of where I vape left NO detectable nicotine in either the blood or tissues of my parrot. Anyone who says exhaled vapor is harmful or toxic is talking out of their rectum.
 

Roxxette

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Man im not even going to continue posting , if you feel have these holy right to vape then do it :) at the end contrary to what most think that they doing the right thing and expose ecigs in the open its the way to go hmm nah.... You and the others are just going to end labeled as people that changed cigs to ecigs so they can "smoke" anywhere and thats why its going to get the cig ban hammer treatment......


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sailorman

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Bottom line here to me is we don't know what the effects of second hand vape are. I am a nic free vaper and am not sure what the VG and flavors I use are doing to me. Yes I feel better but who really knows. I personally don't believe it is my right to expose someone to my unknown. It really urks me when I hear someone say it's just water vapor...really, I am not that naive. Can you smell the vapor(?) then its not just water vapor is it and who knows what else it is as we have very few studies. I believe vapeing is reduced but not risk "free" to me or bystanders. JMHO

We know what vapor contains. We know that food flavorings are not toxic. We know that if they were toxic because of being heated, some chemicals would be detectable. We know that food flavorings are routinely heated to temperatures in excess of the 200 degrees of an atomizer and people in food processing plants aren't keeling over dead. If you want to believe that heating food flavorings creates some mysterious, heretofore unknown toxic substance, you go right ahead. But don't expect the rest of us to buy into your magical thinking.

Ecigarette mist harmless, inhaled or exhaled

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Portland2008ECIG.pdf
 

sailorman

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Hey man if its a public accomodation why not tell to homeless people so they "accomodate" in starbucks ? public my ........


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Because you are obviously unfamiliar with the legal term "public accommodation". That doesn't mean you should just use it any old way you want. It has a specific legal definition and a place designated as such has certain obligations in return for certain benefits derived by being designated as such.
 

sailorman

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Man im not even going to continue posting , if you feel have these holy right to vape then do it :) at the end contrary to what most think that they doing the right thing and expose ecigs in the open its the way to go hmm nah.... You and the others are just going to end labeled as people that changed cigs to ecigs so they can "smoke" anywhere and thats why its going to get the cig ban hammer treatment......


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I don't think I can smoke anywhere. It seems that you are confused about the difference between smoking and vaping. It's You who think vapers should act like smokers and hide in the shadows. It's you who are telling the public that you're doing something wrong and worthy of being restricted and taxed.

In case you haven't noticed, vaping bans have NOT been in response to people vaping in public. They've been in response to an orchestrated campaign by anti-tobacco zealots who have met no public opposition. Why do they meet no public opposition? Because people like you make it perfectly clear that you are willing to be treated just like a smoker. People like you are unwilling to try to make vaping an ordinary, routine sight in public venues. People like you who call vaping a privilege. Well, privileges can be taken away.

Years ago, people smoked everywhere. Smoking bans were initially based on health and safety considerations. Those factors do not apply to vaping. Smoking bans weren't put in place due to public pressure, but the public went along with them because they saw some merit in the arguments. If all those smokers were vaping instead, there would be no bans or restrictions to this day.

Today, smoking bans aren't enough. Now they want tobacco bans. That includes snus and e-cigs. People with your attitude are aiding and abetting the prohibitionists. Vaping bans will be your fault, because you make it clear that you think vaping should be restricted. You voluntarily restrict it yourself. You act like a smoker and then you're going to wonder why the law treats you like a smoker.
 
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sailorman

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I'm sorry but I am going to disagree with you here.

If you read all the medical literature floating aorund about vaping, they will tell that the problem is that while vaping the USER does not truely know what they are consuming in the way of Nicotine. THey also say that in vaping we dont absorb as much of the nicotine as a normal smoke and that a portion of it is exhaled with our vape clouds.

Normal logic tells me that is we are not recieving the dosage that we are expecting and that some of that is expelled in our vape you would have to be in dnial about what happens to the rest of the nocitine in our vapor to not realize what happened to the rest.

I know it has been said that the nicotine disperses through the air and the concentration becomes to miniscule to be considered dangerous but really? Do you think you should be so privileged as to intrude and force someone to breath nicotine which is not essential for life no matter how small so you dont have to walk your lazy butts outside?

I wouldnt allow someone to smoke crack around me. Why should someone else be expected to tolerate my vape. Get over yourselves. This world doesnt revolve around you.

This part is a non-sequitur.
f you read all the medical literature floating aorund about vaping, they will tell that the problem is that while vaping the USER does not truely know what they are consuming in the way of Nicotine. THey also say that in vaping we dont absorb as much of the nicotine as a normal smoke and that a portion of it is exhaled with our vape clouds.

I have read all the medical literature. Their concern is that the vaper doesn't know how much nic he is consuming during a vaping session. They're contrasting it with a cigarette and I would contend that you don't really know there either unless you care to investigate. I smoked Winstons for 33 years and I couldn't tell you how much nic they contained.

Since then, I discovered that a puff of an analog contains approx 0.1% nicotine. In a vape puff, there is 1/10 that amount, or 0.01%
Being conservative, let's say 1/2 of it is absorbed by the vaper. That means, at most they exhale vapor containing 0.005% nicotine. Now, that's by percentage. What is 5/1000 of 1/100th? It's 0.00005 or 5/100,000 of a puff by weight. What's a puff of vapor weigh? My calculator doesn't even register enough zeros to calculate it. How many nanograms or picograms of nicotine is in that exhaled puff? Weigh a puff and multiply by 0.00005. That's how much nicotine, at maximum, contained in the vapor you exhale.

Nicotine was never the primary toxin of concern in cigarette smoke.

How intrusive am I being when I drive my car, or light my barbecue grill or my fireplace, or mow my lawn, or start my boat or my chainsaw or motorcycle? None of those are essential to life and they all expose people to thousands, if not millions, of times more toxins than vaping does. And those toxins are far more harmful than an equal amount of nicotine.

Do yo think you're being "privileged" when you do any of those things? Maybe they all should be banned. And, while we're at it, let's ban coal fired power plants, oil refineries, chemical plants, garbage incinerators and every other source of airborne toxins that create hundreds of millions of times as much pollution as every vaper on the face of the earth.
 
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newq

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BS!! Is it a privilege for a woman to douse herself with perfume? Is it a privilege for someone to chew gum? I'd rather have an "entitlement mentality" than a cowardly, craven, spineless mentality. Anything that doesn't harm another person is a right, not a privilege, unless it's illegal. What sucks more than an entitlement mentality is the mentality that says you have a right to prohibit anything that offends your delicate sensibilities. People who think everything is a privilege have the mentalities of slaves.

You are a slave. You like to think because you speak up for the right to do whatever you want whereever you want it makes you righteous and indignified. The truth is again , If I thought what you were doing jeoprodized my business or its customers in anyway I would ask yoou to stop or leave. I dont disagree with anyones right to personal property.

I would love to accomodate everyone but in the end there are but a few poeple who believe their right to do what they want out of convenience trumps everyone elses request to stop such behavior. Ever seen the No shoes, No shirt, No service signs? Sure it doesnt hurt the 7-11 clerk and it may do nothing but offend a more refined person who may happen into the store but it has no ill or adverse consequence to another patron. It does present a liability if the person were hurt.

If someone were to drag a starbucks into a courtroom and ask why said starbucks exposed an employee to nicotine laden vapor regardless of concentrate level and that employee claimed harm from the act, what could you tell a judge to make the judge decide that it was a necessary exposure? Would the small payout to quiet the employee or the $100,000 dollar defense be worth the litigation for the right of an individual to aloow you to vape in their presence?

Slave? No I think not. Not a being pigheaded and failing to listen to reason is not being a slave its realizing that minorities "rights" should not come at the expense of everyone around them. You can claim the nicotine concentrate is as low as you want and it doesnt support your right to vape wherever you want even if there is no harm to another.

Just as another reference, pounding my palms on a counter-top in a drum type session probably wont hurt anyone around me and would cause no ill effects to those who heard it, it would probably be annoying especially if they were in a quiet setting enjoying a beverage. Should I consider this a "right" as well because it wasnt prohibited by law ? Should I consider myself a passifist slave because I can expect that someone will ask me to stop and out of common courtesy I should abide? Think guys.Defiance isnt always a good steward of the cause.

Law,Right,Common courtesy and respect are all different. In this posters opinion, equally important.
 

Roxxette

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Man whos saying anything about hide ? lol man your just a hard head , keep with your selfish mentality and carry on with your everywhere vaping and being an outcast , fromyour way of thinking i asume your not a young person but the problem is that at these stage of life i think you havent learn you cant have or do whatever you want in life and some people will always make sure you dont......

Im a happy vaper and smoker on special occacions , i dont hide but i also respect other people space and proud of it !


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Cyatis

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Ok, how do I feel about this.

1. I don't like the price of Starbuck's coffee.
2. I don't like their coffee either.
3. I guess the above 2 points really make vaping there pointless.
4. If I did vape there and was asked to leave, I might say "thank you".
5. There isn't anything in the vapor to harm someone else with.
6. I think blowing clouds of vapor at someone without invitation is just rude.
7. If I liked the place, and was asked to leave because I was vaping, I'd probably find somewhere else to go. Because I'd probably like them quite a bit less after the experience.
8. If I insisted at my business, that you vape while in the building, would that be acceptable?
9. I don't have to shop at your store. I have the right to inform others that they don't care for vaping.
10. I make better coffee than Starbucks.
 
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