Brace yourselves new Formaldehype junk study to be released Jan 21
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I can't find it but the video for the original story yesterday won't play. "Error encountered: Stream not found"
Maybe they pulled the original video? That would be awesome.
This is the one from yesterday, if it doesn't work for anybody else that we can probably assume they pulled it.
Study: E-cigarette vapor can release more formaldehyde | On Air Videos | Fox News
Never mind, it's working now...sort of lol.
It doesn't get very far in though before I get the error and it stops.
Maybe they pulled the original video? That would be awesome.
This is the one from yesterday, if it doesn't work for anybody else that we can probably assume they pulled it.
Study: E-cigarette vapor can release more formaldehyde | On Air Videos | Fox News
Never mind, it's working now...sort of lol.
It doesn't get very far in though before I get the error and it stops.
There was one poster here who really nailed it, and unfortunately I can't find it.
The media quote is something like "I could grill a steak until it was charcoal, it would have lots of carcinogens, but nobody would eat it".
A much better analogy is lighting a cigarette from the wrong end. One draw, it tastes awful, and you immediately know that something is wrong. Just like a dry hit. You won't take another.
Sorry to whoever said this first, would definitely credit you but I just can't find your post, I thought it was by far the best example I've seen!!
The media quote is something like "I could grill a steak until it was charcoal, it would have lots of carcinogens, but nobody would eat it".
A much better analogy is lighting a cigarette from the wrong end. One draw, it tastes awful, and you immediately know that something is wrong. Just like a dry hit. You won't take another.
Sorry to whoever said this first, would definitely credit you but I just can't find your post, I thought it was by far the best example I've seen!!
Great to see the new story.
Now everyone knows this is a setup by BIG tobacco as they want to push the little guy out.
The Lawyers & Government Officials who sponsor this fake report is doing it for 1 reason.
Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive Search
See if sales keep going down, so do the payments...
Now everyone knows this is a setup by BIG tobacco as they want to push the little guy out.
The Lawyers & Government Officials who sponsor this fake report is doing it for 1 reason.
Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive Search
See if sales keep going down, so do the payments...
This got my attention as far as 'smell' goes.
caramel: "If you check the OSHA / NIOSH sheet for aldehydes, you may notice that the smell threshold is lower than the dangerous concentration. In other words, you can smell something is wrong before getting into real danger. And if they're in dangerous concentration, they stink badly, no way you could possibly ignore them."
.. but your 'wrong end of the cigarette' makes the same good point.
If anyone can't access Clive Bates' website, the chances are he's had some attacks made on his site and his server support / hosting techs have banned a block of IPs that an attack or attacks came from. You just got caught in the crossfire, is all.
To get out from under you need to get a new IP. If you don't know how to do that, open a support ticket and I'll tell you how.
To get out from under you need to get a new IP. If you don't know how to do that, open a support ticket and I'll tell you how.
NPR is now removing my detailed posts explaining how vaporizers are intended to be used, the manufactured limits of atomizers and how and why the study is flawed.
Wowwwwwwwwww.
Wowwwwwwwwww.
This got my attention as far as 'smell' goes.
caramel: "If you check the OSHA / NIOSH sheet for aldehydes, you may notice that the smell threshold is lower than the dangerous concentration. In other words, you can smell something is wrong before getting into real danger. And if they're in dangerous concentration, they stink badly, no way you could possibly ignore them."
.. but your 'wrong end of the cigarette' makes the same good point.
Formaldehyde odor threshold is 0.83ppmv see here: Formaldehyde | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA
This garbage study reports finding 380µg of formaldehyde in 10 puffs 3.5s each. According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations that's about 7.6ppmv, or over 9X the odor threshold. Which means what came out of that CE4 was a hot, acrid, suffocating mess that would've chocked the most inveterate subohmer instantly.
I'm sure that's true, but that's not what the public saw and they will never hear that. They saw the headline, drew a conclusion, and moved on with their lives. Damage = done.
here is the five on fox coverage yesterday. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4007895304001/gutfeld-new-e-cig-study-goes-up-in-smoke/?#sp=show-clips
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Thanks for posting the link. I was watching Fox yesterday when this came out and it made my day!
One of NPR's (National Public Radio) big sponsors is the RWJF (Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.)
From Wikipedia:
"The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF) is the United States' largest philanthropy focused solely on health; it is based in Princeton, New Jersey.[1][2] The foundation's goal, through the use of grants, is "to improve the health and health care of all Americans." [3] The foundation has $9.2 billion in assets, generating grants approaching $400 million a year.[4]"
______________
"Nicorette products are manufactured by McNeil Consumer Healthcare company, a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson.[5] GlaxoSmithKline is the licence holder of Nicorette Gum in the United States while Johnson & Johnson markets Nicorette globally.[9]"
First I'd like to thank every one for the superb links. My GF heard about the study yesterday and the ammo to debunk was welcome.
Second, much of the problem is that a lot of vaping gear is not off the shelf, plug and play, easily usable without creating dry hits, burning for an inexperienced user.
I have been using top-coils for years, they have been drilled, dremeled, re-coiled, re-wicked, plugged and otherwise modified to give sufficient eliquid and air flow to avoid burning up to about 10 watts or even a bit higher. They work without the leaking and gurgling often found in bottom coil clearos.
Even my "bottom coil" RTA have needed major modifications to operate properly (to my liking), and I only push them to the 12-15 watt range.
Second, much of the problem is that a lot of vaping gear is not off the shelf, plug and play, easily usable without creating dry hits, burning for an inexperienced user.
I have been using top-coils for years, they have been drilled, dremeled, re-coiled, re-wicked, plugged and otherwise modified to give sufficient eliquid and air flow to avoid burning up to about 10 watts or even a bit higher. They work without the leaking and gurgling often found in bottom coil clearos.
Even my "bottom coil" RTA have needed major modifications to operate properly (to my liking), and I only push them to the 12-15 watt range.
i have been telling people i switched to vaping because i want to live long enough
to become a burden on society.
mike
Yeah, but how do we protect The Children from the harm that comes from money? There's a junk science report that's been floating around for a few millenia that proves that "money is the root of all evil." Taxation is only feeding that evil and harming our kids anywhere that it is found. Ergo, we need to ban taxation. Won't anyone think of The Children?
So arguably this damage is way more than whatever alleged damage comes from inhaling formaldehyde. And yet, it is really (as in really really) just temporary damage. Cause public perception this week, and perhaps for a few more weeks will appear bent out of shape over this news. A year from now, I believe there will be another issue with vaping and the formaldehyde one will go the way of the anti-freeze scare from 2010. I mean, clearly vaping survived (and thrived) after the anti-freeze scare.
General population (includes me) is very fickle about perceived harms from a product. I honestly can't think of any product (ever) that hasn't had dangers linked to it. So, either you live a life that is constantly on guard of this with literally everything and freaking out people within an online post of your reach of all these dangers; or (far more likely) you are living life with some understanding that it's all very risky and yet joy can be found. That joy may be temporary, but I submit that everyone seeks it and would likely argue that continuing to seek it far outweighs the need to be cautious about (literally) every thing.
IOW, ultimately the perceived harm that comes from this formaldehyde scare is rather pointless. Vapers are going to keep on vaping. Kids are going to vape. If anything, this just brought kids closer to getting vape products on an actual black market. I would think it'd be easier (via reason) to show the associative links to how we arrived at a black market for vaping than it would be to show associative links between vaping formaldehyde and some disease that popped up decades later.
Not having read what kind of junk the study was supposed to be but got curious enough to google the odor threshold limit.
Got several hits suggesting 0.8 ppm is not accurate.
Identifying an indoor air exposure limit for formaldehyde considering both irritation and cancer hazards
There are various reports of different odor thresholds (i.e., the minimum level that can be detected), with a typical range of 0.5 to 1 ppm (ATSDR, 1999; US EPA, 2006c). Although some documents list odor thresholds at lower levels, these are likely to be obfuscated by the same accuracy issues (i.e., false positives) as for sensory irritation. For example, a guidance document (US Coast Guard, 2001) notes that the odor threshold for formaldehyde is 0.8 ppm, but also states that persons with sensitive noses can detect it at levels as low as 0.1 ppm. Although it is likely that some highly sensitive individuals can detect the odor of formaldehyde at levels below 0.5 ppm, there are no empirical data (e.g., human volunteer chamber studies) documenting that humans can reliably detect formaldehyde at levels of 0.1 ppm or less.
Got several hits suggesting 0.8 ppm is not accurate.
Identifying an indoor air exposure limit for formaldehyde considering both irritation and cancer hazards
There are various reports of different odor thresholds (i.e., the minimum level that can be detected), with a typical range of 0.5 to 1 ppm (ATSDR, 1999; US EPA, 2006c). Although some documents list odor thresholds at lower levels, these are likely to be obfuscated by the same accuracy issues (i.e., false positives) as for sensory irritation. For example, a guidance document (US Coast Guard, 2001) notes that the odor threshold for formaldehyde is 0.8 ppm, but also states that persons with sensitive noses can detect it at levels as low as 0.1 ppm. Although it is likely that some highly sensitive individuals can detect the odor of formaldehyde at levels below 0.5 ppm, there are no empirical data (e.g., human volunteer chamber studies) documenting that humans can reliably detect formaldehyde at levels of 0.1 ppm or less.
From The study appearing in university website:
Portland State Enrollment Management & Student Affairs: Center for Student Health and Counseling (SHAC) | News
Peyton said there is no way to avoid sucking in the formaldehyde-releasing agents, which could release formaldehyde in the lungs or elsewhere in the body, while vaping with a high-voltage tank system. The only option, he said, would be to turn down the voltage.
The next phase could involve studies to try to figure out what impact the formaldehyde-releasing agents could have in the body by studying lung-related cells in a petri dish. It could take years to know what health risks people face vaping high-voltage e-cigarettes.
Seems low voltage vaping is almost safe.
Portland State Enrollment Management & Student Affairs: Center for Student Health and Counseling (SHAC) | News
Peyton said there is no way to avoid sucking in the formaldehyde-releasing agents, which could release formaldehyde in the lungs or elsewhere in the body, while vaping with a high-voltage tank system. The only option, he said, would be to turn down the voltage.
The next phase could involve studies to try to figure out what impact the formaldehyde-releasing agents could have in the body by studying lung-related cells in a petri dish. It could take years to know what health risks people face vaping high-voltage e-cigarettes.
Seems low voltage vaping is almost safe.
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