Ive noticed Alot of ignorance by the newer vapors (not said as an insult) about the regulations. . I've had more then a couple when I asked where there vape was ask me isn't it illegal now?
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FDA Business way down because of 8-8??
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Yeah, I think that's why a lot of health nannys want ecigs completely gone. As long as adults can buy them, kids will get them too.
Health Nannies can want This. Or they can Want That.
But the their Logic Falls Down when e-Cigarettes can be shown to be Significantly "Safer" than Smoking.
And State/Federal Taxies and Corporate Profits trump what Nannies want anyway.
Unless you can get all and I mean all research to only support the positive with vaping - opposition can pick and choose which ones they want to use to support their position.
It is the same for everything. First eggs are bad for you, then they are bad, then they are good and so on...
It's the way it has Always been. Pick and Choose whether a Study is Valid based on the Results. And not on the Scientific Methodology involved.
But what happens over time is that Reputable Names in Research publishing Peer Reviewed Studies start to Outnumber those Studies that Exploit Clear Biases and use Questionable Science.
You have more confidence in this than I do -- particularly given the biases in the sources of funding for the studies.
I have the Upmost Confidence in this.
In Fact, I have said Many Times that the CDC, HSS/FDA and the NIH will all come out and Support/Indorse e-Cigarette use as a Means of Harm Reduction for Smokes.
But they will do so After the FDA's Deeming of e-Cigarette is Fully Implemented. And After e-Cigarettes are Taxed at a Pegged Rate to a Pack of Cigarettes on the Federal Level.
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Yep and I would bet then you will see not only e-cigs from BT, but also nicotine delivery devices from Pharma also...
I seem to remember a few years back when there was a huge stink about children having access to p*** ( pictures of naked ladies). Then we found there was nothing we could do to stop it and somehow it wasn't a problem anymore. Whatever happened to that one? Now the big issue is cloud toys. (I think that's what I'm going to call them from now on.)
You're referring to the Communications Decency Act, portions of which were struck down as being too broad in scope. CIPA was declared constitutional by the Supreme Court and still stands. In addition, COPPA is still very much alive and must be adhered to by all adult sites.
I think this is possibly the best thread I've seen here on this forum.
A lot of very interesting ways to view what is happening.
This is a very complex situation, with dozens of factors.
It's very hard to say what will be in the end.
I think picking at the details is kind of a waste of time though.
Not that it isn't fun to do and fun to read.
But you have to look at what the intended end game is for all the players.
And when I say players I mean those that have money and influence.
When you see what that end game looks like, you'll see the future.
Unless somehow the courts do their jobs.
A lot of very interesting ways to view what is happening.
This is a very complex situation, with dozens of factors.
It's very hard to say what will be in the end.
I think picking at the details is kind of a waste of time though.
Not that it isn't fun to do and fun to read.
But you have to look at what the intended end game is for all the players.
And when I say players I mean those that have money and influence.
When you see what that end game looks like, you'll see the future.
Unless somehow the courts do their jobs.
Well, it was good news, about three years ago.
As it stands, it's just another clear indication of the lack of mainstream media support.
And an obvious example of how lack of such support is slowly burying us.
I was thinking about the amount I was spending on ejuice a month and odds and ends, it was $50-60 a month that I no longer do since stocking up. I decided to DIY except for a few last juice orders. I spent my money on hardware to stock up. So even if only 10 people did the same, that's $500 a month lost for only 10 people DIYing. I can see how this change could have a big impact on juice sales and Nic sales to vendors.
Oh didn't realize it was old news! Ah yes mainstream media, the rag sheet air ways that have all the truth of a drunkin Irishman on a binge after kissing the Blarney Stone LOL! ( yep a bit 'O the Irish in meself)
The money, a trillion dollars a year world wide, would be the 800 pound gorilla. Heath and science are a couple of nippy chihuahuas. Since 8-8 the quality of respectable rhetoric has improved and there's more of it. It's not bad having the tobacco companies more or less on our side of things. That seems to confuse everybody. I think the science continues to break our way and with some surprising good turns. The focus of the argument right now is children. A good answer to that would help a lot. It may be that anything less than a draconian crackdown won't accomplish anything worth so much effort. A significant restriction of products will probably unleash a lot of human ingenuity and the good ideas will spread fast.
I would never take the FDA's side on anything but reading thru this thread and all the speculation not one person has mentioned that RTS' wholesale sales dropping by 50% could be nothing more than the quality of the product they are shipping to customers.
I ordered 1L of RTS nic in VG last month. It will be the first nic order, and last nic order, I ever place with their company. I dont care how low the price drops on their nic. I, as a very long time DIY'er, have been stocking up like many have. I figured, "$40 for a L of nic to stockpile? Why not?". The nic I recieved was so oxidized it was approaching near the yellow/brown stage. It smells horrible and IMO will likely be damn near unvapeable.
No, I didnt contact RTS. If they take that little care in the handling of their product that they cant keep it from being exposed to that much oxygen I have no interest in replacement. I'm damn sure I would never get a full refund.
It takes a LONG time of being exposed to open air for nic to oxidize as bad as what I had recieved. Maybe, just maybe, their customers are finding better quality product. Ive ordered from many nic suppliers and this was the worst nic I have ever recieved in nearly 5 years of vaping/diy. I may end up actually using this nic as pesticide. I'm not sure I can vape it.
I spend less than $10 a month to vape at this point. Most of that cost is for flavorings and VG. Vape shops are going out of business because of multiple factors. Regulations are only one factor. There is also market saturation, internet sales, product quality, and sheer price/quality competition between retailers. I believe regulation at this point is not the biggest culprit. Consumers are picky. They eventually catch on when they find something better.
RTS has been judged by me. I find them lacking.
I ordered 1L of RTS nic in VG last month. It will be the first nic order, and last nic order, I ever place with their company. I dont care how low the price drops on their nic. I, as a very long time DIY'er, have been stocking up like many have. I figured, "$40 for a L of nic to stockpile? Why not?". The nic I recieved was so oxidized it was approaching near the yellow/brown stage. It smells horrible and IMO will likely be damn near unvapeable.
No, I didnt contact RTS. If they take that little care in the handling of their product that they cant keep it from being exposed to that much oxygen I have no interest in replacement. I'm damn sure I would never get a full refund.
It takes a LONG time of being exposed to open air for nic to oxidize as bad as what I had recieved. Maybe, just maybe, their customers are finding better quality product. Ive ordered from many nic suppliers and this was the worst nic I have ever recieved in nearly 5 years of vaping/diy. I may end up actually using this nic as pesticide. I'm not sure I can vape it.
I spend less than $10 a month to vape at this point. Most of that cost is for flavorings and VG. Vape shops are going out of business because of multiple factors. Regulations are only one factor. There is also market saturation, internet sales, product quality, and sheer price/quality competition between retailers. I believe regulation at this point is not the biggest culprit. Consumers are picky. They eventually catch on when they find something better.
RTS has been judged by me. I find them lacking.
As another Member mentioned... And so it Starts.
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I would definitely contact RTS. Exposure to oxygen does not cause color changes
in nicotine. Sunlight does. The foul smell is another mater. Oxygen will cause oxidation
of nicotine but at a rate so slow as to be unnoticeable until quite some time has passed.
A small bottle of nic base if properly sealed after use should last until the product is
used up with very little degradation that is measurable and most likely not noticeable by taste.
RTS advertises its nicotine as flavorless so I am assuming that if your product is indeed bad
that RTS would rectify the problem. They do have a 30 guarantee.
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Mike
My hope is that the FDA will find it too daunting to rein in the advanced vaping market. There is no doubt in my mind that there's going to be a never ending onslaught of loophole exploitation. I suspect that in the end, they will most likely give in on that front and settle their sites on what they can control easily, which is closed cigalike products.
If the government can't stop people from selling hackintosh laptops, and fire tv sticks and android boxes loaded with piracy apps on friggin Amazon (far more complicated illegal products than e cigs will ever be), I have serious doubts about their ability to regulate advanced vaping gear effectively. People who are into this stuff tend to be highly tech and Internet savvy. When has the government had any success in their attempts to circumvent such people? It's too big, and it moves too swiftly for their old bones.
Their inevitable failure to successfully rein in the market, coupled with the ever mounting evidence of the blatant fallacies behind the FDA's position, will eventually lead to the resurgence of the industry as we know it, if the FDA is even successful in the short term. That's my hope anyway. I choose to be optimistic, because I feel it is more beneficial to aproach these things from this angle. People tend to not tuck their tails between their legs and blindly accept the new order, if they beleive that they can win.
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