FDA Business way down because of 8-8??

[Lessifer]

My hope is that the FDA will find it too daunting to rein in the advanced vaping market. There is no doubt in my mind that there's going to be a never ending onslaught of loophole exploitation. I suspect that in the end, they will most likely give in on that front and settle their sites on what they can control easily, which is closed cigalike products.

If the government can't stop people from selling hackintosh laptops, and fire tv sticks and android boxes loaded with piracy apps on friggin Amazon (far more complicated illegal products than e cigs will ever be), I have serious doubts about their ability to regulate advanced vaping gear effectively. People who are into this stuff tend to be highly tech and Internet savvy. When has the government had any success in their attempts to circumvent such people? It's too big, and it moves too swiftly for their old bones.

Their inevitable failure to successfully rein the market, coupled with the ever mounting evidence of the blatant fallacies behind the FDA's position, will eventually lead to th resurgence of the industry as we know it, if the FDA is even successful in the short term. That's my hope anyway. I choose to be optimistic, because I feel it is more beneficial to aproach these things from this angle. People tend to not tuck their tails between their legs and blindly accept the new order, if they beleive that they can win.

I believe we can win, in fact I believe we have to win. However, if nothing changes, vape shops won't exist, because there will be nothing to sell. That doesn't mean those who are inclined to won't be able to find something, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[collinsmcrae]

I believe we can win, in fact I believe we have to win. However, if nothing changes, vape shops won't exist, because there will be nothing to sell. That doesn't mean those who are inclined to won't be able to find something, but that's not what I'm talking about.

You are right, of course. I just hope that the factors I mentioned eventually lead to the failure of the FDA's regulatory plans, thus allowing for shops to open back up through loophole exploitations, while the FDA turns it's head on the whole affair, in defeat, in order to focus on what it can reasonably, and effectively regulate.

 

[retired1]

All the FDA has to do is make an example of a business or two they catch breaking the rules. They won't need to nail each business that's selling outside of the rules as once the word gets out, most will shut down voluntarily as they'll not be willing to fork out a years worth of sales in fines.

The way the regulations are written, there's very little wiggle room, nor is there much in the way of loopholes. It's pretty ironclad in the way it's written. There's a catch all phrase called "intended use" that pretty much gives them total control.

 

[skoony]

If it was any other nic supplier I probably would contacted them. In this case RTS had to know when they bottled it what the quality was. It was unmistakeably wrong. That little quality control is a problem I dont want to spend any more of my time, money, or patience on.

Personally I don't get. They have a pretty good return policy as far as I can tell.
I do not understand why you assume that of all the nic suppliers "any other nic supplier"
you would have contacted them. What makes you believe RTS should have known?
They most certainly would have known if you had contacted them. I visited their
web site and couldn't determine if they in fact bottled and labeled there product
themselves or have it done by a larger company. Do you know. At any rate,any
number of things could have been the reason your product arrived to you in the condition
you describe. IMHO deliberately sending out bad product would be last on my list of
possibilities.
Do they not date the bottles or indicate best if used by dates?
Regards
Mike

 

[EddardinWinter]

All the FDA has to do is make an example of a business or two they catch breaking the rules. They won't need to nail each business that's selling outside of the rules as once the word gets out, most will shut down voluntarily as they'll not be willing to fork out a years worth of sales in fines.

This is absolutely true.

Given the lack of fight the overwhelming majority of vendors have shown, most will fold long before this is even needed. What few holdouts there are will be cowed once an example or two is made.

While this cut and run mentality is appalling to me, I do understand it from a business perspective. It's easier to find something else to buy for a buck and sell for two than to fight the freaking FDA. Remember, most people see it as a benevolent protector of public health. What a sad joke.

Bad QC, which has been alleged, for the "why" (or even part of the "why") the sudden drop off in sales does not make sense to me. These are the same vendors that have supplied us for years. They suddenly have a QC issue? Maybe there is something to it, let's see some evidence and I might get on board with that theory.

In the meantime, I think market uncertainty and lack of new vapers is the most likely culprit.

 

[Verb]

If the regulations stand as they are, what exactly will those thousands of vape shops be selling?

Flashlights and personal lubricant.

 

[Lessifer]

Flashlights and personal lubricant.

They'd have to change their names, maybe Tube's N Lube

 

[Ancalagon]

Anyone know the rule on selling individual coils? Our local shop said the new FDA rule prohibits them from selling anything but 5 packs.

 

[zoiDman]

Anyone know the rule on selling individual coils? Our local shop said the new FDA rule prohibits them from selling anything but 5 packs.

Correction: See Post below this one.

 

[Verb]

Anyone know the rule on selling individual coils? Our local shop said the new FDA rule prohibits them from selling anything but 5 packs.

If the manufacturer distributes them in single packs it is permitted. If the package is opened and a single is removed from a multipack, that is considered repackaging and is only permitted if the B&M is registering as a manufacturer.

 

[Semiretired]

I haven't heard Anything like this.

Sounds like that Shop is say'n things to sell More Stock.

They probably get them in 5 packs and do not want to break them down.

 

[zoiDman]

They probably get them in 5 packs and do not want to break them down.

Yeah... As soon as I saw Verb's post, it Dawned on me what the B&M was say'n.

Hence the Correction to my Post.

 

[Ancalagon]

Thanks, I searched and searched for info but couldn't find anything about it.

Seems like the FDA is being very vague with this type of thing.

 

[Semiretired]

Thanks, I searched and searched for info but couldn't find anything about it.

Seems like the FDA is being very vague with this type of thing.

I believe they kept it vague so they can interpret it in the direction for the day - lawyer speak...

 

[Smoke_too_much]

Gloom & doom, gloom & doom.

Maybe, just maybe, this is actually the beginning of a large industry to come. Yes most likely dominated by the likes of big tobacco but then again big players come with big wallets and look to do big business. It is one thing for Joe in the back of the vape shop to be mixing up juice as it might actually taste good and be consistent in its quality but compare that to large well equipped labs with professionals all working to get the edge over the next big players lab. Maybe the govt will require closed systems but tell me a closed system can't be designed to give lots of clouds and flavor. Tell me we'd rather be refilling our own tanks as opposed to getting really good juices that are easily dropped into a vape as a pod. Yeh I know they suck now but they won't always be that way. Govt can ride roughshod over the industry right now because there is no one large enough to stand up against them but just wait until Mr Reynolds wags his finger at them about taxes, employment, and investment in their constituencies and watch them hop into line. The big players will ensure there are lots of future vapers to buy their products, after all the kids have yet to be marketed to, and of course the govt is ever willing to make it that much more attractive to the youth by giving it quasi outlaw status.

Nope I see big things for the future of the vape industry. Yes I do.

[removed]

 

[Lessifer]

Tell me we'd rather be refilling our own tanks as opposed to getting really good juices that are easily dropped into a vape as a pod.

I'd rather be filling my own tank, for $0.25 a fill, than buying pods.

 

[Smoke_too_much]

I'd rather be filling my own tank, for $0.25 a fill, than buying pods.

I didn't say it was going to be cheap but at least blame the right party for that, after all I can buy a pack of smokes for just over a $1, up until the govt taxes me on them that is.

 

[Lessifer]

I didn't say it was going to be cheap but at least blame the right party for that, after all I can buy a pack of smokes for just over a $1, up until the govt taxes me on them that is.

I didn't specifically blame anyone, and as of right now, there are no taxes on pods, so who would be to blame for a pod costing $10+?

It's also about more than the cost. It's about being able to choose exactly what I'm vaping, and it's about a product that wasn't broken in the first place and won't be made any better by regulations.

 

[Lessifer]

Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with some of the new pod mods. Perhaps if I had started with one, I wouldn't have felt the need to move beyond it. That's not the point though, the point is that I should have a choice. They're going after an industry with the potential to do real good in the world, under false pretenses, and getting away with it.

 

[Smoke_too_much]

Of course they're getting away with it they always do, they're govt and basically do what they want. Our only way to combat it is to simply do what we want regardless.

There really isn't that much special about the devices we use, anyone with a half decent machine shop can easily make up a dripper. We can easily go back to mech mods. All but the nic is also easily available and nic itself is not hard to make either, a lot easier than the other things folks make up in their back sheds. Plus nic is available from many different countries. All the FDA will do is drive it underground at best and then no one will control it.